App for WANB to move

[kenhawk1160]

And why isn't the former WBCW programmed as a Westmoreland County station?

You know, I've often wondered about that myself. Especially with its new dial position, which blows as far north as Elderton (Armstrong County).

 

[cingram]

OK, more points to address:

I think the short version of why WKFB (ex-WBCW, ex-WKTW) isn't targeting Westmoreland County per se is that it's an AM station, and a daytimer, and a sister station to 620, and ergo is running some of the same brokered programming. (It's the brokered programming that's paying for the FM upgrade, you know.)

If you want to see a dead radio station, you should look at the program logs for 1530 before the move to 770. It was spinning automated CCM near the end, and probably wasn't worth the electricity it took to keep it on the air. I doubt that anyone was listening besides the people in the building. There certainly were no advertisers left, either.

Again, WHJB as a local, profitable, Greensburg station has been dead for at least seven years. Maybe ten. Maybe more. Heck, I have an aircheck of myself making a guest DJ appearance (in 1998) playing Barbra Streisand into Blue Oyster Cult, with promos for the polka shows and paid programming in the middle of the day. You think it wasn't time to give that format up? But, I digress.

Chris, you know how hard it is to run a music format on an AM station in the fringes of a major market. Not to mention that the Pittsburgh stations are selling Westmoreland very aggressively. And they should, because most of the people in Westmoreland are listening to the Pittsburgh stations, and places like Irwin and North Huntingdon are becoming huge bedroom communities for the city.

As a stand-alone AM (okay, we have two stand-alones) playing music, 620 would have a hard time. KQV would have it harder. Even WJAS, with pretty good ratings and a solid signal and a well-known airstaff, is a tough sell. All in all, I can't object too much to the idea of paid programming.

Providing local service to Irwin? Boy, we could have a long conversation about that. From a public service, public affairs, and FCC licensee standpoint, we most certainly do. But if we were to target local, full-service, music-oriented programming at Irwin, I think we'd be spinning our wheels, and losing our shirt. The station covers a lot more than Irwin.

Again, I don't think Tony Renda is getting rich with 107.1. Yet. And I don't know John Longo's operation well enough to comment.

As for not talking to anyone in Tennessee, Chris, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Sam aka MJD and I had a nice E-mail exchange about a month ago. I'm working six days a week at the stations and on Sundays I collapse in a heap, so maybe I'm not in touch as much as I used to be. I'm certainly not on the message boards much. But I'm still in the same place, and not at all hard to find.

Finally, there's this remark:

"So 630,000 more people have the potential to hear more crap!"

I don't think that the current programming on 103.1 (which is country, with two dayparts live, and a damn fine Sunday-night oldies show) is crap. And once the tower is moved, I don't think the programming will be crap then, either.

Not if I have anything to say about it.

And I do.

C.

 

[lash]

Good points! If 103.1 is going to stay in its country format, and be programmed by you, then I agree. But if it becomes some YDD rip-off, then I'm getting out of radio.

The reason the former 1530 WBCW was dead, was because it was not worked.

And again I wasn't saying that 620 or 770 should be in an all music format.

I'll say it again....103.1 WYDD is coming soon!

 

[Radio_Realist]

And they should, because most of the people in Westmoreland are listening to the Pittsburgh stations, and places like Irwin and North Huntingdon are becoming huge bedroom communities for the city.

None of you people who insisted stations had to lose money and "serving the local community" would pay any attention when I posted that particular piece of accurate observation and information. Now that a local radio living legend has also said the exact same thing, will that piece of reality finally sink in?

 

[kenhawk1160]

OK, more points to address:

I think the short version of why WKFB (ex-WBCW, ex-WKTW) isn't targeting Westmoreland County per se is that it's an AM station, and a daytimer, and a sister station to 620, and ergo is running some of the same brokered programming. (It's the brokered programming that's paying for the FM upgrade, you know.)

If you want to see a dead radio station, you should look at the program logs for 1530 before the move to 770. It was spinning automated CCM near the end, and probably wasn't worth the electricity it took to keep it on the air. I doubt that anyone was listening besides the people in the building. There certainly were no advertisers left, either.

Again, WHJB as a local, profitable, Greensburg station has been dead for at least seven years. Maybe ten. Maybe more. Heck, I have an aircheck of myself making a guest DJ appearance (in 1998) playing Barbra Streisand into Blue Oyster Cult, with promos for the polka shows and paid programming in the middle of the day. You think it wasn't time to give that format up? But, I digress.

Chris, you know how hard it is to run a music format on an AM station in the fringes of a major market. Not to mention that the Pittsburgh stations are selling Westmoreland very aggressively. And they should, because most of the people in Westmoreland are listening to the Pittsburgh stations, and places like Irwin and North Huntingdon are becoming huge bedroom communities for the city.

As a stand-alone AM (okay, we have two stand-alones) playing music, 620 would have a hard time. KQV would have it harder. Even WJAS, with pretty good ratings and a solid signal and a well-known airstaff, is a tough sell. All in all, I can't object too much to the idea of paid programming.

Providing local service to Irwin? Boy, we could have a long conversation about that. From a public service, public affairs, and FCC licensee standpoint, we most certainly do. But if we were to target local, full-service, music-oriented programming at Irwin, I think we'd be spinning our wheels, and losing our shirt. The station covers a lot more than Irwin.

Again, I don't think Tony Renda is getting rich with 107.1. Yet. And I don't know John Longo's operation well enough to comment.

As for not talking to anyone in Tennessee, Chris, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Sam aka MJD and I had a nice E-mail exchange about a month ago. I'm working six days a week at the stations and on Sundays I collapse in a heap, so maybe I'm not in touch as much as I used to be. I'm certainly not on the message boards much. But I'm still in the same place, and not at all hard to find.

Finally, there's this remark:

"So 630,000 more people have the potential to hear more crap!"

I don't think that the current programming on 103.1 (which is country, with two dayparts live, and a damn fine Sunday-night oldies show) is crap. And once the tower is moved, I don't think the programming will be crap then, either.

Not if I have anything to say about it.

And I do.

C.

Clarke, please don't misunderstand me. I of all people know that AM radio is not an easy sell these days, but the point I'm trying to make is that it can be. It's not impossible nor improbable.

I know what 1530 was doing prior to the sale to Bob: Not much, if anything. I remember listening to Al Calisti's talk show and hearing ONE ad the entire hour, and that was for Standard Savings. I had long felt that 770 could have been your outlet for time-brokerages and keep 620 as a full-service local station serving Westmoreland County.

Still, I say that Westmoreland County is a profitable market. Yes, the Pittsburgh stations are marketing Westmoreland County aggressively, but I don't think that the businesses they're going after can afford to advertise on those stations. I can tell you factually that one advertiser I visited in Fayette County told me that the local station that once served the area and is now under different ownership (I won't mention names) now charges more than three times the spot rate than when the station was under different ownership, literally eating up that business' entire ad budget in a week. That's alarming.

Let's not forget the A-K Valley, which has not has its own station offering local service since January of 1990, when WKPA as we all knew it fell. Even after I came on board as GM the following year, there was only so much I could do on my own, and I didn't have the budget to do more. What I did manage to accomplish did yield positive results ($), but I still tried to preserve the station's local image as much as I could. People were simply happy to have their station back. I simply ran out of time.

And yes, I have seen the A-K Valley recently...it's gone downhill a bit. But I still remember WHJB still aired Kiski Area High School's football and basketball playoff games, AND school closings and delays. Ursula Pugliese herself was a Vandergrift native. Does that mean you have to air EVERYTHING that happens there? Of course not. But what happens within the confines of your county that's newsworthy (and the border communities) can be aired.

I don't knock time-brokered programming, as some stations (especially daytimers) have become legendary for it. We air some, but very little. But I say it should be kept contained to a certain daypart (like middays), while keeping a real morning show as we know it (with news, sports, weather, etc) in AM drive.

I won't deny that its more difficult to generate revenue today than in years past. But the technology we have available today has enabled us to very successfully do more with less. What we spent on a full contingency of live, real-time disc jockeys who did nothing else can now be spent on having these people perform duties other than just intro and backsell songs. More than that, because we're utilizing these people to their fullest potential, we're able to pay them a liveable, family-sustaining salary. We do some voice-tracking, but when you dial our studio lines (though we don't solicit requests), you will likely get the person you're hearing on the air when the phone answers.

I'm sure we can beat this issue into the ground some more for time immemorial, but I too will digress at this point.

 

[kenhawk1160]

And they should, because most of the people in Westmoreland are listening to the Pittsburgh stations, and places like Irwin and North Huntingdon are becoming huge bedroom communities for the city.

None of you people who insisted stations had to lose money and "serving the local community" would pay any attention when I posted that particular piece of accurate observation and information. Now that a local radio living legend has also said the exact same thing, will that piece of reality finally sink in?

Realist, enough already. NO ONE on this board ever insisted that a station lose money by serving the local community. I gave plenty of examples on how a station can make money.

 

[lash]

Waynesburg, PA is not a Pittsburgh bedroom community. Its pretty much all by itself.

Metro Mix 103.1 WYDD is coming soon!

 

[Radio_Realist]

NO ONE on this board ever insisted that a station lose money by serving the local community.

Those who raked the Froggies over the coals because they didn't carry the Duquense High School football games came really, really close to saying that.

I gave plenty of examples on how a station can make money.

No, you gave examples of how a station can try to make money. Sometimes those ideas you suggested will work, sometimes they won't. And, if they work with a small pool of potential listeners, then they'll work even better with a larger pool of potential listeners.

Waynesburg, PA is not a Pittsburgh bedroom community.

And, as Ingram said, it will continue to remain within the coverage zone of the station after the stick is moved. The Waynesburgers will still be able to listen to the station. The livestock grazing in the fields way south of Waynesburg won't be able to hear it any more, but I doubt if they listened to it much anyway.

Metro Mix 103.1 WYDD is coming soon!

What difference does the music format the station programs make? No music format program will appeal to (or serve) everybody.

It never ceases to make me laugh out loud to hear broadcasters brag about how "local" they are when very, very few of them have on-air talent who weren't hired in from some other city, and who only play music recorded by nationally known artists. They'll point to a few public affairs programs broadcast in off-peak hours as proof of "serving the local community".

When any music format broadcaster can claim that at least 25% of the music he plays on his station is recorded by musicians who live within the transmission range of the station and who regularly perform in live venues within that same range, then he's entitled to say he is a "local" broadcaster.

When during peak listening hours you only play music from national acts, using DJ's from out of town, and formats and jingles purchased from out-of-town consultants, it doesn't much matter if your mic and CD players are located near your transmitter. That isn't really "local".

 

[Johnny Morgan]

NO ONE on this board ever insisted that a station lose money by serving the local community.

Those who raked the Froggies over the coals because they didn't carry the Duquense High School football games came really, really close to saying that.

As one of those who raked the Froggy (singular, only 98.3, not plural) over the coals, allow me to respond. the 1934 Act does not guarantee a loss-less broadcasting situation. There are certain activities a station must do to comply with federal regulations and statutes as they stand now.

It's a fact. I'm sorry that some stations think that merely operating formatted music radio wholly and entirely complies with the public service element. And I'm doubly sorry that the station has no pride in its "community" of license (nominal though it may be) sufficient to broadcast an important community event simply because they are not motivated enough, or creative enough, or civic minded enough to sell or at the very least donate 3 hours of air time for one friggin' broadcast.

I'm particularly sorry that the general music format oft derided by Radio Realist is now more important than a statutory and regulatory duty of a broadcast facility.

Exactly when did we excuse stations staying in their bunkers and playing music as community and public interest and convenience? I guess all stations can fire their PSA directors--they're no longer needed. As long as Mullet Talk is entertaining and interesting the public, all the statutory duty is complete.

Please.

 

[lash]

Geez! So what is local Realist? Homegrown announcers, born and raised in the same town, playing the poor quality CD's of local artists? Wow, that's a hell of a format.

Our station does play many local artists if the quality is good. They even walk in off the street, and are interviewed on the air on the spot.

Then again where we are there is some actual talent. Our window sits right on the town's square level to the ground and is staffed with local announcers until 5 pm each day.

And yes, Waynesburg will hear their former FM, but we all know it won't be their FM any longer.

103.1 WYDD will sound like nothing the residents of Waynesburg have ever heard. Wait until they hear the Charlie Manson impersonations on the air, or format changes in the middle of the night for no reason at all.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Exactly when did we excuse stations staying in their bunkers and playing music as community and public interest and convenience?

I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was a Thursday.

Seriously, like most things in life, the change happened gradually. I realize that as a lawyer, you have a vested interest in observing the letter of the law. The thing is, the laws and regulations that define just what "the public interest" is are enforced about as often as the laws against spitting on the sidewalk or not tying your horse to a parking meter.

So what is local Realist? Homegrown announcers, born and raised in the same town, playing the poor quality CD's of local artists? Wow, that's a hell of a format.

Yep, you just described what "local" radio should be if it's really going to be "local". But then, I'm not the one claiming that local is great, or even good. I applaud those small town stations who who manage to sound as good as the big city stations. Quality is quality. Sure, I think most music format radio is incredibly boring, but at least most stations manage to bore people in a professional manner. Clearly, you've seen my point that to truly be "local", a small town station is going to end up sounding like a skit from Hee-Haw.

And as for playing "local" music on your stations in Tennessee, being close to both Nashville and Memphis puts you in a somewhat different locality than here in Pittsburgh, and like it or not, this is the Pittsburgh forum, not the Tennessee forum.

Our window sits right on the town's square level to the ground and is staffed with local announcers until 5 pm each day.

Are those "local" announcers local people, or carpetbaggers you hired based on an audition tapes who moved in when you hired them, and who'll move out when you fire 'em?

And yes, Waynesburg will hear their former FM, but we all know it won't be their FM any longer.

It wasn't "their" FM before. It belonged to the owners.

103.1 WYDD will sound like nothing the residents of Waynesburg have ever heard.

Now how do you know that the Waynesburgers aren't modern thinking, hip folks? I understand most of their streets are paved, and most homes have indoor plumbing and everything. Maybe they'll like that new fangled music. It might set their toes all a'tappin'.

 

[lash]

In the state of Tennessee, there might be 100 born and raised announcers, the rest are all carpetbaggers. We hardly sound like "Hee Haw".

And I'm sure WANB AM or FM sounds good, and serves Waynesburg very well. Sorry to see it change for the FM.

The people own the license, not the station owners.

I'd like to recommend some good reading for Realist. Its called Radio 101!

 

[Parttimer]

If you took 620's signal and ran a local morning show, Boortz live 9A-1P, Clark Howard 1-4, and maybe something like the Schnitt show from WFLA/Tampa PM drive (can also be heard on XM), trust me, you could make a few bucks. Add some Westmoreland County news and traffic coverage and some high school sports and I think you'd have a winner.

Or run Sporting News Radio all day and get Savran for PM drive. Yes, that would be outrageously expensive compared to what you have now, but it would be a major-league product that could have a Pittsburgh following.

Are you serious about the WYDD calls? Will Bob come on again and promote Jim DeCesare as "an experience you will not forget"? (No disrespect intended to Jim, I really loved his jazz shows and he should have been on WJJJ)... but Bob did actually say that on the air one night on 'YDD.

 

[Radio_Realist]

We hardly sound like "Hee Haw".

Of course you don't. You've chosen sounding good over sounding local. That's a good thing. Sounding good is better than sounding local.

And I'm sure WANB AM or FM sounds good, and serves Waynesburg very well.

It's too far from where I live for me to pick it up, so I don't know how it sounds. But if it served the Waynesburgers well before, it will continue to serve them just as well after. Granted, if it changes music formats, then it will trade serving one small group of Waynesburgers really well for serving another, larger group of Waynesburgers really well.

Unless you don't believe that the Waynesburgers actually need some good music to enrich their otherwise hum-drum lives.

The people own the license, not the station owners

Tell you what, you give away your transmitter, tower, studio equipment and all your other gear, but keep your license. Tell me how much broadcasting you can do. It takes a hell of a lot more to be a broadcaster than just a license. The "station" includes all the hardware, and the people on the air, and the technicians who keep the equipment working. The license is just one small technicality. That's radio 102.

If you took 620's signal and ran a local morning show, Boortz live 9A-1P, Clark Howard 1-4, and maybe something like the Schnitt show from WFLA/Tampa PM drive (can also be heard on XM), trust me, you could make a few bucks. Add some Westmoreland County news and traffic coverage and some high school sports and I think you'd have a winner.

I think that is correct. It would be a winner. Some high school sports at night, mentioning whatever news is happening in Westmoreland County (such as it is) and traffic coverage would be nice, but that would hardly make the station a "local" station. But it would make it a good and profitable station.

Ain't nothing wrong with a station being good and profitable.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I gave plenty of examples on how a station can make money.

No, you gave examples of how a station can try to make money. Sometimes those ideas you suggested will work, sometimes they won't. And, if they work with a small pool of potential listeners, then they'll work even better with a larger pool of potential listeners.

I don't see the difference, Realist. You can't make money without trying. I'm not saying every idea is foolproof. What I AM saying is that in a town with a growing population along Route 30 (North Huntington-Irwin is becoming the new Cranberry), you have the potential to have a relevant, profitable radio station that offers elements of local news, sports, and weather, as well as other noteworthy events, such as broadcasts of fairs, parades, and such. Trying to run for example, the long-dark AM 960 in Kane with ANY format would definitely fail, because the town up there is simply too small to support the stations (including a very established FM) they have now.

 

[kenhawk1160]

If you took 620's signal and ran a local morning show, Boortz live 9A-1P, Clark Howard 1-4, and maybe something like the Schnitt show from WFLA/Tampa PM drive (can also be heard on XM), trust me, you could make a few bucks. Add some Westmoreland County news and traffic coverage and some high school sports and I think you'd have a winner.

Or run Sporting News Radio all day and get Savran for PM drive. Yes, that would be outrageously expensive compared to what you have now, but it would be a major-league product that could have a Pittsburgh following.

Are you serious about the WYDD calls? Will Bob come on again and promote Jim DeCesare as "an experience you will not forget"? (No disrespect intended to Jim, I really loved his jazz shows and he should have been on WJJJ)... but Bob did actually say that on the air one night on 'YDD.

Parttimer, your ideas definitely sound good. I would stay away from syndicated shows, though...if I understand correctly, those programs are already on in Pittsburgh. Sports formatted radio, I'm a little leery about...with ESPN 1250 and AM 970, we're the only market of this size that offers two all-sports stations.

I do like the idea of keeping the drive periods live and high school sports. The latter is almost guaranteed income, no matter how bad the team is. I would keep the brokered health programming during the midday, though...simply for the reason that they've been doing it for so long...even while Mel Goldberg still owned the station. There is an audience for that stuff...we aired a similar program on WKPA called "Here's to Your Health" and the response was just incredible. Plus, many of those programs, which are already paid for, are also locally produced.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Yep, you just described what "local" radio should be if it's really going to be "local". But then, I'm not the one claiming that local is great, or even good. I applaud those small town stations who who manage to sound as good as the big city stations. Quality is quality. Sure, I think most music format radio is incredibly boring, but at least most stations manage to bore people in a professional manner. Clearly, you've seen my point that to truly be "local", a small town station is going to end up sounding like a skit from Hee-Haw.

Well, based on your opinion, you can call me a carpetbagger, Realist. I know of very few radio stations that use local announcers native to the town these days. They've been moved in from other towns, but they're still on the air and have become a part of the community over the years. We've been fortunate enough at our stations to have been able to find talented homegrown announcers who grow and develop with our stations. I myself am NOT a native of Butler. But I DO have family here, and I have moved to town so my wife can be closer to work. I love this town, and I don't intend to leave. My 'town to town up and down the dial' years are done. At the station, we have more than 150 years combined experience among our own airstaff. But that's the exception, not really the norm.

I mean, who would you hire if given the option? Someone with no radio experience but willing to learn, or someone with five years of experience in another town who's willing to do the job for the same amount of money that sounds better at the audition? I'd maybe hire the inexperienced guy as a part-timer, and leave the more experienced person to the full-time gig. If the full-time guy decides to move on, and the part-time local guy shows promise, then I'd promote from within. You don't often find stations too willing to do that because they don't want to lose a reliable part-time employee that's willing to work the hours few others want.

As for local music, I'll give you half-credit for that. Local music should have a place on a local station, provided that it sounds good. In Indiana County, AM 1160 WCCS airs a Sunday morning program called "The Acoustic Hour", hosted by local musician Anthony Frazier. It first began playing faith-based songs in September 2001, but over time, it's evolved into a show that also features secular music by local musicians in and around Indiana County, and from regions like Johnstown and Pittsburgh. You'll hear musicians like Carol Lee Espy and others who aren't rock musicians that may not get played on other commercial stations.

But as they say, there's a time and place for everything. You can offer local musicians a forum to showcase their work, but I would hardly make that a benchmark of your regular programming. In Chris' case in Tennessee, that's an exception...you're in the country music capital of the world at a station with very close ties to modern hit country music.

 

[Johnny Morgan]

with ESPN 1250 and AM 970, we're the only market of this size that offers two all-sports stations

.

Well, now the Steel City shares those honors with Cleveland--WKNR 850am and WWGK 1540am.

 

[kenhawk1160]

with ESPN 1250 and AM 970, we're the only market of this size that offers two all-sports stations

.

Well, now the Steel City shares those honors with Cleveland--WKNR 850am and WWGK 1540am.

I stand corrected then, Johnny. Thanks for clarifying that. Still, there can't be that many others. I think the Sports Radio and Talk Radio boom has finally peaked.

 

[Radio_Realist]

What I AM saying is that in a town with a growing population along Route 30 (North Huntington-Irwin is becoming the new Cranberry),

Most of the radio-listening population of the growing town turns the radio in their cars on when they leave for work, listen as they drive away from town to where they are working, then listen again on their way back home. The days when families huddled around the Atwater-Kent listening to Fibber McGee while sitting home at night are gone.

I mean, who would you hire if given the option? Someone with no radio experience but willing to learn, or someone with five years of experience in another town who's willing to do the job for the same amount of money that sounds better at the audition?

I'd go for the quality over local every time. The thing is, I'm saying that quality trumps local. If you hire the non-local talent over local talent because the non-local talent is better, then you've chosen quality instead of chosing local. Making that choice gives you the right to brag about your quality, but takes away your right to brag about being local.

WCCS airs a Sunday morning program

I'm not much impressed with anything that any station throws away in the Sunday Morning PSA ghetto. If you want to be able to brag about being local, then your local content needs to be during peak listening hours. If you just trot out your local content in the off-hours when it won't get in the way of regular programming, then it isn't anything to brag about.

The thing is, why can't you just be content to have a high quality operation? Why do you have to keep bragging on being "local", when the localness isn't what makes your stations good?