The latest Arbitron 12+ PPMs are out….Clear Channel must be happy. ‘DVE and Kiss dead even. NewsTalk 104.7 widens out their lead on KDKA, who are actually dropped into a tie with the X. BOB drops .2 while 3WS gains a full point. Keymarket must still be kicking themselves for LMAing 98.3 to K-Love. Renda’s ‘JAS and WISH still strong, but BizTalk less attractive than snake oil salesmen/oldies combo stations. What’s your take?
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April PPM Arbitron
- Thread starter captainrexk
- Start date
captainrexk said:
Some of KD's loss is to baseball, but the other part is that most of the Fan's listeners have come from KDKA-AM.
captainrexk said:
Not really. Their cash situation was so bad that they might be out of business without that deal.
captainrexk said:
As we've said here before, 1360 is brokered radio. The ratings don't matter, and in fact fact Renda's laughing all the way to the bank, generating cash flow from no overhead and no listeners.
Part- I'm a bit skeptical of your claim that KDKA-FM would be taking away KDKA-AM listeners.
104.7? Sure. They've taken away all the reasons to listen to KDKA, which were the Pirates and Rush Limbaugh. In fact, the day Limbaugh left for 104.7 was the day KDKA lost its place on top of the ratings.
But a KDKA listener after the Bucs and Limbaugh were taken away essentially would be down to people interested in local news issues and topics. The Fan would be sports fans- and while I would say that the affairs of the Pirates and Steelers are a local news story, I'm not sure it's quite the same as what KDKA had been pitching upon 93.7's arrival.
Clear Channel is doing well with four of the top six stations in town all Clear Channel properties, and all of their stations in the Top Eight.
This being said, I've been saying for awhile that WDVE needed a shot in the arm. Read other boards and they'll tell you the problem is Jimmy Krenn- but I disagree. If WDVE were to let go of Krenn, it would be akin to 1975 when the Pirates fired Bob Prince or 1994 when Myron Cope retired from his WTAE talk show. The identity of WDVE would totally be destroyed.
My two thoughts on WDVE losing its grip on No. 1 (can you even say they are anymore with WKST getting a higher CUME?) are that, as I have said for awhile, there aren't enough hard and fast songs on the playlist. Okay, sure, with classic rock you're going to have already heard everything on the playlist 100,000 times, but I am looking at the playlist and I see Tom Petty- who is a snore- and Heart, who apparently needs coffee to stay awake through their entire songs.
When I turn on a classic rock station I want to have something that is going to keep me awake at 2 a.m., not something to dismiss as background music.
Meanwhile, DVE is promoting some sort of event where you can meet Bret Michaels. When was the last time you actually heard a Poison song on WDVE? They do a pretty good job of bashing this style of music with "Mullet Talk," which is clearly counterproductive, but as far as playing the music of the man from the area, who they hired out to play a Steelers pep rally, and had the hottest reality show on TV about a year ago?
No.
Makes no sense.
The other thing about WDVE I have noticed is that the station is somewhat leftist. Now, you may be wondering how a classic rock station can be leftist- but here's the deal.
The audience for WDVE is getting older. It's a natural process for a classic rock station and as an audience gets older, it becomes more conservative.
Yet when I hear the morning show, they are bashing Victoria Jackson for being part of the tea party movement, and when I listen later on in the day they are playing a comedy cut of a comedian whose take is sarcastically saying "I see where such-and-such disaster occurred. Guess those victims didn't pray enough!"
Then again, when the Steelers start playing again they'll be No. 1 again, so I'm sure WDVE will stay status quo.
But for a station that I couldn't wait to listen to once upon a time, I have to wonder if they are as in tune with their audience as they could be, and, for that matter, are the radio station they could be.
104.7? Sure. They've taken away all the reasons to listen to KDKA, which were the Pirates and Rush Limbaugh. In fact, the day Limbaugh left for 104.7 was the day KDKA lost its place on top of the ratings.
But a KDKA listener after the Bucs and Limbaugh were taken away essentially would be down to people interested in local news issues and topics. The Fan would be sports fans- and while I would say that the affairs of the Pirates and Steelers are a local news story, I'm not sure it's quite the same as what KDKA had been pitching upon 93.7's arrival.
Clear Channel is doing well with four of the top six stations in town all Clear Channel properties, and all of their stations in the Top Eight.
This being said, I've been saying for awhile that WDVE needed a shot in the arm. Read other boards and they'll tell you the problem is Jimmy Krenn- but I disagree. If WDVE were to let go of Krenn, it would be akin to 1975 when the Pirates fired Bob Prince or 1994 when Myron Cope retired from his WTAE talk show. The identity of WDVE would totally be destroyed.
My two thoughts on WDVE losing its grip on No. 1 (can you even say they are anymore with WKST getting a higher CUME?) are that, as I have said for awhile, there aren't enough hard and fast songs on the playlist. Okay, sure, with classic rock you're going to have already heard everything on the playlist 100,000 times, but I am looking at the playlist and I see Tom Petty- who is a snore- and Heart, who apparently needs coffee to stay awake through their entire songs.
When I turn on a classic rock station I want to have something that is going to keep me awake at 2 a.m., not something to dismiss as background music.
Meanwhile, DVE is promoting some sort of event where you can meet Bret Michaels. When was the last time you actually heard a Poison song on WDVE? They do a pretty good job of bashing this style of music with "Mullet Talk," which is clearly counterproductive, but as far as playing the music of the man from the area, who they hired out to play a Steelers pep rally, and had the hottest reality show on TV about a year ago?
No.
Makes no sense.
The other thing about WDVE I have noticed is that the station is somewhat leftist. Now, you may be wondering how a classic rock station can be leftist- but here's the deal.
The audience for WDVE is getting older. It's a natural process for a classic rock station and as an audience gets older, it becomes more conservative.
Yet when I hear the morning show, they are bashing Victoria Jackson for being part of the tea party movement, and when I listen later on in the day they are playing a comedy cut of a comedian whose take is sarcastically saying "I see where such-and-such disaster occurred. Guess those victims didn't pray enough!"
Then again, when the Steelers start playing again they'll be No. 1 again, so I'm sure WDVE will stay status quo.
But for a station that I couldn't wait to listen to once upon a time, I have to wonder if they are as in tune with their audience as they could be, and, for that matter, are the radio station they could be.
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
Perhaps this latest census data has something to do with it.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11139/1147664-53.stm
For the first time in decades, Pittsburgh's median age dropped by about 2 yrs.
Largely this appears to be due to die-off at the upper end of the scale.
Perhaps KD is now losing more than ten listeners a day via the obituary column.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11139/1147664-53.stm
For the first time in decades, Pittsburgh's median age dropped by about 2 yrs.
Largely this appears to be due to die-off at the upper end of the scale.
Perhaps KD is now losing more than ten listeners a day via the obituary column.
Parttimer said:
I got that from people who have seen the numbers.
Parttimer said:
Maybe, but CHR is up everywhere since the advent of PPM. It does a better job of recording the listening of younger demos, who were simply not as good at diary keeping as older listeners. Plus, Arbitron is now better at finding participants from cellphone-only households, which are primarily young demos.
I don't totally disagree with your comments on DVE, but they are the highest rated 25-54 station in the country. Period. The DVE morning show has the highest male 25-54 numbers of any show in the country. Period.
The slip in 6+ numbers is more due to better sampling of the younger audience.
Party in the flashcube....
I logged out of the site and can't edit my previous post.... just after I posted it I saw some breakdown numbers and there has in fact been some slippage at DVE. Still solidly #1 locally, maybe not #1 nationally, but the NFL is not only in the off-season but locked out, the Pens were playing in April, and the Pirates are better than usual. Clearly 104.7 had a bump from baseball, and some of those are bound to be DVE people.
Part- I'm skeptical then that the people who have seen the numbers you spoke with have the ability to read the numbers!
But if it is true, and I'm not questioning your word, just saying that I have a hard time believing it, perhaps it has something to do with the cross-promotion of the stations, and the fact Pittsburgh is such a sports orientated culture.
Still, how are they breaking down these numbers?
If you want to know what I see, it is that with the demise of ESPN 1250, the number of KDKA-FM has essentially been that the old ESPN 1250 listeners went to The Fan.
On WDVE- As I've said before, selling classic rock to Pittsburgh men is like selling country music to rural Appalachia or snowblowers to Eskimos. As long as WDVE has the monopoly on classic rock in Pittsburgh, they are going to do well.
Even when WRRK was a classic rock station, they didn't have a classic rock morning show. And having someone as familiar and easy going as Krenn to wake up to doesn't hurt, either.
I don't think WDVE out and out stinks, mind you. Far from it. But they're like shrimp without cocktail sauce at best and running on memories at worst.
But if it is true, and I'm not questioning your word, just saying that I have a hard time believing it, perhaps it has something to do with the cross-promotion of the stations, and the fact Pittsburgh is such a sports orientated culture.
Still, how are they breaking down these numbers?
If you want to know what I see, it is that with the demise of ESPN 1250, the number of KDKA-FM has essentially been that the old ESPN 1250 listeners went to The Fan.
On WDVE- As I've said before, selling classic rock to Pittsburgh men is like selling country music to rural Appalachia or snowblowers to Eskimos. As long as WDVE has the monopoly on classic rock in Pittsburgh, they are going to do well.
Even when WRRK was a classic rock station, they didn't have a classic rock morning show. And having someone as familiar and easy going as Krenn to wake up to doesn't hurt, either.
I don't think WDVE out and out stinks, mind you. Far from it. But they're like shrimp without cocktail sauce at best and running on memories at worst.
If god forbid the NFL Lockout lasts into the season, I wonder how bad it will hurt 93.7 The Fans numbers next fall. As a football and huge Steeler fan, I will not be a happy camper if there is no NFL football in the fall.
I wonder if Pitt Panther football will be enough to keep the Fans ratings up?
I wonder if Pitt Panther football will be enough to keep the Fans ratings up?
Pratte, they're leftist because Baumann is a liberal leftist. Look at all the campaigning he did for Obama. He was suckered into the "change" mantra Obama was chanting. The PD at DVE should've told him to cool it.
Having said that about Baumann, I must say he is the reason the morning show rolls on. Case in point, when they didn't renew his contract quickly and he had to sit out for a month or two. They were the worst months of radio EVER. Krenn may be a likeable guy, but he's certainly not easy to listen to. He needs diction lessons and he does not have the chops to carry the show or at least drive the show (even when Randy is on vacation or sick). I had some clients actually switch schedules when Randy was locked out. So, that tells me Krenn's rep as a nice guy, isn't being bought by advertisers. They are a smart group who didn't want their money wasted.
Parttimer, I agree that's what will happen on the CBS stations, but I believe DVE will have to keep it close to the collar in that regards considering their partnership with the Steelers.
Well, yeah, Randy is the only person in town who still thinks John McIntire is still relevant.
But I remember listening to WDVE in the morning during Randy's dismissal. To be honest, I didn't think the show missed that much.
I mean, Krenn was still doing his Ralph the Cat songs. Val and Mike were still there. I really didn't notice that much of a difference, except the welcomed absence of "Mullet Talk."
Which, in addition to being even more of a dated bit than "Stanley P. Kachowski", seems to make fun of all the bands that WDVE doesn't play that I'd like them to.
And I even like this bit a little (see- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoqnSa1uRE&feature=related)
Maybe it's me, or maybe I'm just getting older. And I hardly want to see anyone getting canned. But do Randy's characters really strike the cord with you the way Scott Paulsen's did?
Let's just say I hardly thought it was the worst radio ever when Randy wasn't there. I'd be curious to know what your advertisers were saying was missing from the show without Randy Baumann.
But I remember listening to WDVE in the morning during Randy's dismissal. To be honest, I didn't think the show missed that much.
I mean, Krenn was still doing his Ralph the Cat songs. Val and Mike were still there. I really didn't notice that much of a difference, except the welcomed absence of "Mullet Talk."
Which, in addition to being even more of a dated bit than "Stanley P. Kachowski", seems to make fun of all the bands that WDVE doesn't play that I'd like them to.
And I even like this bit a little (see- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoqnSa1uRE&feature=related)
Maybe it's me, or maybe I'm just getting older. And I hardly want to see anyone getting canned. But do Randy's characters really strike the cord with you the way Scott Paulsen's did?
Let's just say I hardly thought it was the worst radio ever when Randy wasn't there. I'd be curious to know what your advertisers were saying was missing from the show without Randy Baumann.
Pratte, there is no question that Randy's characters are not on level with Paulsen's. To me the best morning shows DVE had were Jimmy & Steve and Paulsen's.
Krenn was BORING!! Val & Mike were there, but they don't contribute much at all. Actually, Mike at least has an opinion and will contradict what Randy or Krenn will say. All Val does is rips & reads wire stories and laugh at Krenn's "comedy". Krenn's characters are not funny and are so old, it's embarrassing that anybody thinks it's funny. You even said it...it's the same old thing! Ralph, Stanley and every other Krenn character should quietly go away.
This also brings up another aspect of what DVE can do to freshen up. Play hair bands! They should do a metal show (if they already do, forgive me, I haven't heard it). They're playing the same stale songs over and over. Get more specialty shows on. DVE used to do that in the day. I realize the same eplaeyrs are not there, but surely not everyone has been stuck to CC robotics.
Krenn was BORING!! Val & Mike were there, but they don't contribute much at all. Actually, Mike at least has an opinion and will contradict what Randy or Krenn will say. All Val does is rips & reads wire stories and laugh at Krenn's "comedy". Krenn's characters are not funny and are so old, it's embarrassing that anybody thinks it's funny. You even said it...it's the same old thing! Ralph, Stanley and every other Krenn character should quietly go away.
This also brings up another aspect of what DVE can do to freshen up. Play hair bands! They should do a metal show (if they already do, forgive me, I haven't heard it). They're playing the same stale songs over and over. Get more specialty shows on. DVE used to do that in the day. I realize the same eplaeyrs are not there, but surely not everyone has been stuck to CC robotics.
Pratt, I can't give you tper batim what was said (I don't work that way). Overall, they didn't like the tempo of the show. Here are my thoughts on why it was boring: too slow, not funny, hard time understanding the stuttering Krenn. I could go on. But, who cares what we think? The guy pulls in big dough and CC is willing to pay him for it.
Raymond said:
I didn't say it this time.
I am, however, inviting Raymond to call on me if he ever needs an organ transplant or something.
During the Electric Lunch or an 80s Weekend. That's the only time they will do it.
I still remember my friends writing me letters when I was away at college and bitching because DVE had stopped playing anything "new." "New" at the time equalled hair bands. They didn't like this music the first time around and I have to say I admire them for having the balls to stick to that mindset (even if their listeners haven't done the same).
A metal show would NOT be the same thing as a hair bands show.
I found an old off-the-radio mix tape from the late 1970s and it TOTALLY pointed out why everyone got so freakin' sick of disco. Old standards, movie themes, EVERYTHING - whether it had a point or not - redone w/ a disco beat behind it. It was ridiculous. We need a similar tape from the hair band era so we can all remember what it was REALLY like.
I say this all as a chick who admittedly likes hair bands - but I don't want to hear them on DVE.
Then you are in the minority.
Hey, when the people on the Electric Lunch are demanding them, when the station is promoting concerts by Bret Michaels, when BOB is climbing up the charts playing '80s stuff including Ratt (whose drummer is from Pittsburgh, by the way), I don't know what more evidence you need.
Just put the House of Hair on weekends. That's all I ask. At least for now.
By the way, I can distinctly remember in 1990 WDVE playing Slaughter and, for that matter, Manitoba's Wild Kingdom. So I don't know where you're getting that they didn't play them then back then. I will admit that they were as apt to play something by Uriah Heep as they were something contemporary then, and for me that was a perfect mix, but when you even admit that its what their audience wanted and they didn't give it to them I can't see where it was a good thing.
I don't think your analogy to disco is applicable. But I can tell you that there are plenty of local stations in which I can hear disco tunes, but the only time I can hear a great number the classic rock songs that I am passionate about are when I go online.
Of course, my idea of a great classic rock station would be all AC/DC, all the time. I'm not expecting that, but I do think that you can't go wrong if you kind of start with AC/DC and go out from there. True, it's only my personal taste, but I quite objectively can say we'll all have a bit more happier take on life if we do that than start with, say, Neil Young and go out from there.
Playing Airbourne, as WDVE does, is a good start down that path, by the way.
Hey, when the people on the Electric Lunch are demanding them, when the station is promoting concerts by Bret Michaels, when BOB is climbing up the charts playing '80s stuff including Ratt (whose drummer is from Pittsburgh, by the way), I don't know what more evidence you need.
Just put the House of Hair on weekends. That's all I ask. At least for now.
By the way, I can distinctly remember in 1990 WDVE playing Slaughter and, for that matter, Manitoba's Wild Kingdom. So I don't know where you're getting that they didn't play them then back then. I will admit that they were as apt to play something by Uriah Heep as they were something contemporary then, and for me that was a perfect mix, but when you even admit that its what their audience wanted and they didn't give it to them I can't see where it was a good thing.
I don't think your analogy to disco is applicable. But I can tell you that there are plenty of local stations in which I can hear disco tunes, but the only time I can hear a great number the classic rock songs that I am passionate about are when I go online.
Of course, my idea of a great classic rock station would be all AC/DC, all the time. I'm not expecting that, but I do think that you can't go wrong if you kind of start with AC/DC and go out from there. True, it's only my personal taste, but I quite objectively can say we'll all have a bit more happier take on life if we do that than start with, say, Neil Young and go out from there.
Playing Airbourne, as WDVE does, is a good start down that path, by the way.
Pratte4life, thanks for the offer of an organ. But, let's not get it done at UPMC, okay? 
House of Hair! I'd listen, as would many other Pittsburghers.
There's a reason why BOB wins the 80's niche in this town. DVE hands it over to them by refusing to play the stuff. If they played the right stuff, and retired some of their long-worn out P1 songs, they might get their numbers up even more. Yeah, I know they're #1, but the DVE days of having a 15 share are long gone.
It is long overdue for DVE to tweak its music.
House of Hair! I'd listen, as would many other Pittsburghers.
There's a reason why BOB wins the 80's niche in this town. DVE hands it over to them by refusing to play the stuff. If they played the right stuff, and retired some of their long-worn out P1 songs, they might get their numbers up even more. Yeah, I know they're #1, but the DVE days of having a 15 share are long gone.
It is long overdue for DVE to tweak its music.
I didn't say I don't want to hear them. I said I don't want to hear them on DVE. I don't think a lot of the later hair bands (Poison, Warrant) are really rock - they're more pop IMO, and should no more be on DVE than Madonna should. Aren't those concerts somehow tied in with Clear Channel? If that's the case, then DVE is the closest to an appropriate station to put them on (although if 3WS keeps going the way they are, they might as well put them there). I'm sure that some of the longtime employees there are rolling their eyes at having to promote what they consider dreck.
Corp, you're right. DVE never recognized the hair bands at the time they were out, so why should they now? Especially, when their morning show spoofs it with Hair Idol (or whatever they called it). They were considered more "pop" sounding than "rock" sounding.
There's a certain kind of rock that DVE will only play. Southern, rare formulaic 80's rock (some Journey. In fact, I can't tell you when the last time is that I heard Journey on DVE), some of the more "rock" stuff of the 90's....their basic staples, and old standards from Clapton, Floyd, & the like.
With the ever evolving audience (they've grown up), DVE should grow, too. Its silly for them to not at least do an hour or so of 80's programming with songs that were tightly researched to fit parameters of both the overall station feel, and what the audience wants that was popular at the time. That's why BOB does so great with the 80's. They're not afraid to play the stuff.
Of course, you made a good point. Just use 3WS as a dumping ground.
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