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Arbitron Adds "Hudson Valley, NY" as Market #38

P

pjc1961

This new market replaces Market #137 Newburgh-Middletown (which was essentially Orange County). Orange County will now join Westchester, Rockland & Putnam Counties in an area estimated to have an age 12+ population of 1,471,000. The new area (as was the old area) will be diary measured, even though it will be a Top 50 market. The area will be rated twice a year (Spring/Fall) with the first report appearing for Fall 2011 with the release date likely in mid-late January 2012.

Details: http://www.radio-info.com/news/arbitron-adds-hudson-valley-ny-as-market-38

and here: http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=2211719

Newburgh-Middletown Ratings Grid: http://www.radio-info.com/markets/newburgh-middletown
 
Well, the expense of implementing PPM in every station wouldn't be worth it... also, why no Dutchess or Ulster County? If they want to consolidate markets like that...
 
danikayser84 said:
Well, the expense of implementing PPM in every station wouldn't be worth it... also, why no Dutchess or Ulster County? If they want to consolidate markets like that...
Click to expand...

There is no cost to implement PPM... Arbitron provides the encoding devices at no charge.

There is the issue that the PPM survey is much more costly to the stations than the diary, and as it is, this is a new market that probably just manages to pay the cost of measurement, as evidenced by the fact that the market will only be measured 26 weeks out of the year.

PPM requires continuous measurement. The cost would be, no doubt, at least 3 to 4 times the cost of what they are going to do.
 
As far as reception and ratings go, this is not going to be a very generous book for the area AM stations, that's for certain.

I was up that way for a few days a week back, and never heard such poor AM reception in my life. True, the regions AMers are either directional or low-powered, so no one would expect any of them to be near the top ten -- diary, PPM or even part ownership in Arbitron.

The highest-rated AM station actually licensed to the area, WGNY 1220, showed up as the 40th most popular station in that last survey. I found them quite listenable when I was tuned in. Their Fox Oldies had a lot more variety than, say, WOGL Philadelphia. The one problem for them is that I was listening to them at the time in Saint Clair PA, 125 miles west of them. They were a weak bleat in the Catskills last week.

Seven AM stations finished ahead of WGNY, and all seven are licensed to New York City. AM reception for local stations in much of the new survey area is downright treacherous. And I'd been listening on a pretty good radio, too. There are maybe ten 'local'
AM stations within range, but they shouldn't expect any more joy at the new configuration than they experienced with the old one.

Yes, I know ... welcome to the world where FM is emphasized and cultivated. But seeing seven New York City AM stations show up higher on the list before any of the area's actual licensed AMs do leads me to think that this apathy has been going on for quite some time -- and that reception is a big part of the reason.
 
StveGreenPA said:
...WGNY 1220... I found them quite listenable when I was tuned in. Their Fox Oldies had a lot more variety than, say, WOGL Philadelphia...
Click to expand...

That's because it's not programmed toward a major, 300-tested-well-burned-out-song-rotation market like Philadelphia... but I digress... :p
 
With the exception of K-104.7 which has a very strong signal and WHUD which is broadcast from Peekskill, most "Hudson Valley" stations are only listenable in the northern corridor of Westchester- from Peekskill across to Yorktown, Somers, and Goldens Bridge.
 
DToTheJ said:
StveGreenPA said:
...WGNY 1220... I found them quite listenable when I was tuned in. Their Fox Oldies had a lot more variety than, say, WOGL Philadelphia...
Click to expand...

That's because it's not programmed toward a major, 300-tested-well-burned-out-song-rotation market like Philadelphia... but I digress... :p
Click to expand...

And WOGL, which actually has something close to 1000 songs in rotation, is near the top of the ratings in Philly while WGNY is 40th in a smaller market.
 
I thought the only time the average major-market classic hits station has 1,000 songs in rotation is only when they're doing a week-long "Top 1,000 Countdown".
 
DToTheJ said:
I thought the only time the average major-market classic hits station has 1,000 songs in rotation is only when they're doing a week-long "Top 1,000 Countdown".
Click to expand...

The CBS ones tend to have around 800 songs in any week, and the cumulative score after several weeks will be closer to 1000. Other operators may vary, but the sweet spot for the format truly seems to be in the 800-1000 song range.
 
frozenfiresb said:
With the exception of K-104.7 which has a very strong signal and WHUD which is broadcast from Peekskill, most "Hudson Valley" stations are only listenable in the northern corridor of Westchester- from Peekskill across to Yorktown, Somers, and Goldens Bridge.
Click to expand...

I too was really puzzled by the rationale for combining these counties in one market. Due to reception issues in that area, I'm not sure this combination makes sense to me, but I don't reside in that area either.
 
Sounds like Arbitron has no clue about the mountainous Hudson Valley and reception patterns. I think it should be something like this:

1. Westchester, Rockland
2. Orange, Dutchess, Putnam and Ulster

It could also be something like

1. NY Northern Suburbs: Westchester, Rockland, Northern Bergen County, South and North East Putnam, South West Fairfield County.
2. Orange, Dutchess, Putnam, Southern Ulster, Southern Sullivan
 
I posted this on the Hudson Valley board a few weeks back regarding how different the radio landscape changes when driving the NY Thruway.



Thinking about a recent post about the best FM signals in the Albany area, it got me thinking about how quickly the FM landscape changes between Exit’s 16 & 15 on the NYS Thruway….For about a span of about 10-15 miles so many stations that are listenable at Exit 16 are completely unlistenable or non-existent by Exit 15……Since the Thruway cuts through the mountains, they act as a nice sold block between the Hudson Valley stations and the NYC suburban stations…..Pretty much all the NYC stations make it to exit 16 and beyond but some start to encounter static in spots…..What’s also amazing is that stations from the Kingston area (WDST, WBPM, WKXP) can also be heard at Exit 16 and they are 40+ miles away…..I think the most drastic station change happens @ 92.7 just north of the Ramapo Rest Area where you can be listening to WRRV clearly and 5 miles south WQBU is listenable with little to no mixing of WRRV……I don’t think I know of any other area where the radio landscape changes so quickly…..Are there any other areas in the Hudson Valley/Albany area where changes like this happen so fast?

I made a list below of what can be hear at Exit 16 (16) & Exit 15 (15):

92.1–16-WRNQ/15–Static
92.3-16–WXRK/15–WXRK
92.7–16-WRRV/ 15-WQBU
92.9-16-WBPM/15-Static
93.1-16-WPAT/15-WPAT
93.3-16-WBWZ/15-Static
93.5-16-No Report (W228CG?)/15-WVIP
93.9-16-WNYC/15-WNYC
94.1-16-No Report (W231BP?)/15-Static
94.3-16-WKXP/15-Unlistenable Mess
94.7-16-WFME/15-WFME
95.1-16-WRKI (weak)/15-WRKI (weak)
95.5-16-WPLJ/15-WPLJ
95.9-16-No Report/15-Unlistenable Mess
96.1-16-WPKF/15-Static
96.3-16-WXNY/15-WXNY
96.7-16-WTSX?/15-WKLV-FM
96.9-16-WRRB/15-Static
97.1-16-WQHT/15-WQHT
97.3-16-WZAD/15-Static
97.5-16-No Report/15-WALK (weak)
97.7-16-WCZX/15-Static
97.9-16-WSKQ/15-WSKQ
98.3-16-No Report WSUL?/15-WKJY
98.7-16-WRKS/15-WRKS
98.9-16-No Report WGNY?/15-Static
99.1-16-No Report/15-WAWZ
99.3-16-WKIP/15-Static
99.5-16-WBAI/15-WBAI
99.7-16-WJUX/15-Static
99.9-16-No Report/15-WEZN (weak)
100.1-16-WDST/15-Static
100.3-16-WHTZ/15-WHTZ
100.7-16-WHUD/15-WHUD
101.1-16-WCBS/15-WCBS
101.5-16-WPDH/15-WKXW (weak)
101.9-16-WRXP/15-WRXP
102.3-16-WSUS/15-Unlistenable Mess
102.7-16-WWFS/15-WWFS
103.1-16-WJGK/15-W276AQ
103.5-16-WKTU/15-WKTU
103.7-16-WNNJ/15-Static
103.9-16-Static/15-WFAS
104.3-16-WAXQ/15-WAXQ
104.7-16-WSPK/15-WSPK
105.1-16-WWPR/15-WWPR
105.5-16-WDBY (weak)/15-WDHA
105.7-16-W289BE/15-Satic
105.9-16-WQXR (weak)/15-WQXR
106.3-16-No Report/15-WFAF
106.7-16-WLTW/15-WLTW
107.1-16-Static/15-WXPK
107.3-16-WRWD/15-Static
107.5-16-WBLS/15-WBLS
107.9-16-No Report/15-WEBE
 
mikerock said:
Sounds like Arbitron has no clue about the mountainous Hudson Valley and reception patterns. I think it should be something like this:

1. Westchester, Rockland
2. Orange, Dutchess, Putnam and Ulster

It could also be something like

1. NY Northern Suburbs: Westchester, Rockland, Northern Bergen County, South and North East Putnam, South West Fairfield County.
2. Orange, Dutchess, Putnam, Southern Ulster, Southern Sullivan
Click to expand...

This makes more sense to me.
 
mikerock said:
Sounds like Arbitron has no clue about the mountainous Hudson Valley and reception patterns.
Click to expand...

When custom geography markets are created, they generally are built based on the requirements of the stations or groups that would subscribe.
 
GSP163 said:
I posted this on the Hudson Valley board a few weeks back regarding how different the radio landscape changes when driving the NY Thruway.



Thinking about a recent post about the best FM signals in the Albany area, it got me thinking about how quickly the FM landscape changes between Exit’s 16 & 15 on the NYS Thruway….For about a span of about 10-15 miles so many stations that are listenable at Exit 16 are completely unlistenable or non-existent by Exit 15……Since the Thruway cuts through the mountains, they act as a nice sold block between the Hudson Valley stations and the NYC suburban stations…..Pretty much all the NYC stations make it to exit 16 and beyond but some start to encounter static in spots…..What’s also amazing is that stations from the Kingston area (WDST, WBPM, WKXP) can also be heard at Exit 16 and they are 40+ miles away…..I think the most drastic station change happens @ 92.7 just north of the Ramapo Rest Area where you can be listening to WRRV clearly and 5 miles south WQBU is listenable with little to no mixing of WRRV……I don’t think I know of any other area where the radio landscape changes so quickly…..Are there any other areas in the Hudson Valley/Albany area where changes like this happen so fast?

I made a list below of what can be hear at Exit 16 (16) & Exit 15 (15):

92.1–16-WRNQ/15–Static
92.3-16–WXRK/15–WXRK
92.7–16-WRRV/ 15-WQBU
92.9-16-WBPM/15-Static
93.1-16-WPAT/15-WPAT
93.3-16-WBWZ/15-Static
93.5-16-No Report (W228CG?)/15-WVIP
93.9-16-WNYC/15-WNYC
94.1-16-No Report (W231BP?)/15-Static
94.3-16-WKXP/15-Unlistenable Mess
94.7-16-WFME/15-WFME
95.1-16-WRKI (weak)/15-WRKI (weak)
95.5-16-WPLJ/15-WPLJ
95.9-16-No Report/15-Unlistenable Mess
96.1-16-WPKF/15-Static
96.3-16-WXNY/15-WXNY
96.7-16-WTSX?/15-WKLV-FM
96.9-16-WRRB/15-Static
97.1-16-WQHT/15-WQHT
97.3-16-WZAD/15-Static
97.5-16-No Report/15-WALK (weak)
97.7-16-WCZX/15-Static
97.9-16-WSKQ/15-WSKQ
98.3-16-No Report WSUL?/15-WKJY
98.7-16-WRKS/15-WRKS
98.9-16-No Report WGNY?/15-Static
99.1-16-No Report/15-WAWZ
99.3-16-WKIP/15-Static
99.5-16-WBAI/15-WBAI
99.7-16-WJUX/15-Static
99.9-16-No Report/15-WEZN (weak)
100.1-16-WDST/15-Static
100.3-16-WHTZ/15-WHTZ
100.7-16-WHUD/15-WHUD
101.1-16-WCBS/15-WCBS
101.5-16-WPDH/15-WKXW (weak)
101.9-16-WRXP/15-WRXP
102.3-16-WSUS/15-Unlistenable Mess
102.7-16-WWFS/15-WWFS
103.1-16-WJGK/15-W276AQ
103.5-16-WKTU/15-WKTU
103.7-16-WNNJ/15-Static
103.9-16-Static/15-WFAS
104.3-16-WAXQ/15-WAXQ
104.7-16-WSPK/15-WSPK
105.1-16-WWPR/15-WWPR
105.5-16-WDBY (weak)/15-WDHA
105.7-16-W289BE/15-Satic
105.9-16-WQXR (weak)/15-WQXR
106.3-16-No Report/15-WFAF
106.7-16-WLTW/15-WLTW
107.1-16-Static/15-WXPK
107.3-16-WRWD/15-Static
107.5-16-WBLS/15-WBLS
107.9-16-No Report/15-WEBE
Click to expand...

I do not know any other stations that have the range of WRKI, WPDH and WHUD. I remember being able to listen to WPDH all the way up to Lake George and WRKI from North Bergen county all the way to Boston. One cannot say the same about the reach of any of the NYC stations.
 
I thought the NY market included: The 5 boros, Long island, Eastern Sussex County, Passaic, Bergen, Essex, Morris, Monmouth, Mercer, Middlesex, Warren, Hunterdon, Ocean, Hudson, Union, Somerset, Fairfield County, Stamford, West Chester, Rockland Counties.

By me, I get NYC & Hudson Valley Stations:

92.3-Good Signal
92.7-WRRV-bad signal
93.1-Good
93.3-rarely
93.9-Good
94.7-Good
95.5-Good
96.3-Good
96.7-Barely
96.9-WRRB-FM-Barely
97.1-Good
97.3-Barely
97.9-Good
98.7-Good
99.1-Good
99.5-Good
100.3-Good
100.7-Good
101.1-Good
101.5-WPDH-Good
101.9-Good
102.3-WSUS-Good
102.7-Good
103.1-(Newburgh)-Good
103.5-Good
103.7-Newton-Okay
104.3-Good
104.7-K104-Good
105.1-Good
105.5-WDHA-Okay
106.7-Good
107.1-WXPK-Okay
107.3-WRWD-Ok
107.5-Good
 
The market really should be Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Orange and Dutchess. Maybe Ulster and Sullivan Counties too. It would be hard for Arbitron to sell Clear Channel on a redefinition of Poughkeepsie (Dutchess County) as their cluster would go from several in the top 10 to non existent. Guess is CC got in the way of defining the northern suburbs appropriately.
 
Isn't this just another try at a Westchester book that's less of an unbrella than the old one was?

The new outfit is a wide-flung market, certainly. But considering that it's diary rated, and only twice a year, there are bound to be some fluctuations even wilder than those of the relatively simple Westchester book, where even a station with a big signal like WHUD would go up and down like a yoyo. In this new redistricting, it's possible that stations from three states could show up.

Well, whatever suits the subscribers. Not my money. A 'market' of 1,400,000 (or therabouts) will remain, fttb, a market for statistical purposes and application. Pamal may have been the biggest push here for this house of cards, though, not Clear Channel.
 
I know K104 has got the largest signal in the HV as does WHUD both owned by Pamal. CC and Cumulus they have 2 signals for each station that they own which makes it tough for them to compete with Pamal. The two best stations in the HV are: K104 and WRRV
 
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