ARBITRON LOSES ALL CREDIBILITY

[mb6294]

I was interested in seeing how WMGM sized up against WZXL since they changed the format. Oh well..

 

[Who Cares]

This is stupid. The 12+ numbers are dumb anyway. Male listeners typically like rock. Females typically go with Hot AC, CHR, or whatever it's called these days. Talk radio usually appeals to a segmented part of the population, and sports talk is even more segmented (men who don't listen to music).

In TV, you have 4 major networks that compete for overall numbers. And if NBC is in 4th that means something. But NBC's numbers KILL SyFy or Bravo, or the like.

In major metro markets, the top radio stations are usually news/talk and light rock or HOT AC. But if you wanted to sell your beer, would you go to a light rock station or would you hit up the #1 rock station with a 25-44 male target, even though they might be #6 in 12+??

And, 12+ numbers are typically only cume if I'm correct (I understand I may not be). Cume just tells you all the people that tuned in during a given week. It doesn't talk about AQH, or time spent listening, which is what you really need to know anyway.

You know, I'm pissed because ESPN.com, which is one of the most trusted sports information sites in the country, charges for their hot articles, news items, mock drafts and rumors. If I don't subscribe I don't get the info. Should I call fraud on ESPN.com? Clearly, the information is fraudulent if it's not released to the public. Please. Stop the madness.

Arbitron gets paid to provide a service to subscribers. If you don't subscribe, then you shouldn't be upset you can't get the info. They're not a public service or not for profit or government oversight company. They're a business, in business. End of story.

 

[Dancerev889]

I can see both sides of the argument. I completely agree that Arbitron is in business to make money just like almost every radio station. It would be nice if they would list every station with the basic numbers like they were supposed to when they started. At least thats what the Arbitron rep told us. Ive had several discussions with them about creating a package for smaller stations to be able to get something from them but they never would budge from the entire package.

There are other ways to track listeners. Besides a good sales staff should be able to sell your station.

 

[Matt Knight]

As a former PD in Monmouth/Ocean, I always questioned the Arbitron system. One book can have great numbers across the board, and then 6 months later (during the 2 book per year period, which is now 4 books per year) you could see a complete turnaround. It never made sense to me. I would sit and crunch numbers within demographics to see where we may have hit our high water marks, but in the end, the more you break down the numbers the less the sample size becomes.

Not sure if it's changed, but Arbitron would send out approximately 1500-1600 diaries to represent a market that has a population of 1.1 million people (Monmouth/Ocean). Given how the diary system is organized, it was difficult to gauge how a Top 40 station performed as when I broke down the demographics, nearly 65% of the diaries went to adults 35+. Given that CHR's are generally seeking the 18-34 demo, it would skew the numbers based on how many (or little) of those diaries went to people within the target demo.

Also, the process of physically filling out a diary is tedious. Older people seem to have no problem filling out the diaries as they like being a part of this process and having a voice. I don't see many 20-30 year olds taking the time (what time they have anyway) to sit down and spend the extensive time it takes to fill out a diary. I know that the diary placement has been based on hot zip codes and phone numbers, but what I never understood is why Arbitron hasn't taken the step into having diaries filled out online. I believe that if it was done online, those who didn't fill out the diaries would MAYBE spend the time on their computer (since they're on it anyway) to do it and still collect whatever few bucks that they get for doing it.

I do believe PPM has helped the ratings system as far as breaking down to the very minute, but again, people have to carry a device for that. It's another reason that people who don't have a passion for radio wouldn't participate in a ratings survey.

Finally, speaking from the Monmouth/Ocean standpoint, unless you cover the entire market, your numbers won't really be a fair judgment to how your station is performing. When I was at the old B98.5 as APD, we only had a signal that reached the fringe of southern Monmouth county. Diaries that went to Monmouth county wouldn't put WBBO in their diaries as they didn't receive the station. That lead to breaking down the Ocean county numbers alone and then selling to your defined audience. I totally agree that a great sales staff will sell the STATION over the NUMBERS, but some clients still insist on the ratings for physical proof. If you have a great brand, you should be able to sell that brand based on past history of the station. Now working at WRAT, I can see how they have been around for so long. They have built that RAT brand and stood by it for over 15 years. Ratings or not, good or bad, having a team that sells the product and clients knowing exactly what they get when they are buying into it is definitely a bonus.

My two (long) cents, if you will.

 

[Who Cares]

Matt - I've said the same thing about Arbitron, as well. Depends on where the books are dropped, then who fills 'em out. I've seen a station (or multiple stations) do really well in the Spring book and then tank in the Fall book...and in that same Fall book all of the other "like" stations tank, too. So, it looks like everyone decided that they now hated Country and really liked Classic Rock (use whatever format you like for the example I just gave), and we know it's not like that. Mass amounts of people don't suddenly change formats in a market.

I like your online idea, however the idea is supposed to be that one carries the diary (or device in PPM markets) with them everywhere they go, so they can record the station they're listening to right then and there. Yes, laptops and smartphones exist, however you can't count on everyone having access or compatibility to the online version everywhere they go. That being the case, the "habit" of carrying and recording what you listened to isn't created, so the person no longer thinks about what they're listening to, they don't have a reminder with them (diary). So, IF, and I mean IF, they go back to their computer at the end of the day, they have to try to remember what they listened to, and then they'd just select a full day of their favorite station whether they listened to it or not.

And, like you said, a good salesperson can sell the station, if they know the product and the target. National buys go by numbers in target demos, local buys usually go by what they perceive. In that case, the numbers don't matter. They're gonna buy on their favorite station, or the station they think is best for their business, or, in some cases, the station that has the best salesperson who can educate the client.