"Arbitron: PPMs Track HD Radio"

[PocketRadio]

"Arbitron: PPMs Track HD Radio"

"With the PPM, each distribution stream can have a unique identification code. If a listener hears it, the PPM can identify it with near-perfect certainty," said Pierre Bouvard, president, Portable People Meter, Arbitron Inc."

http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/2005/08/26/arbitron_ppms_track_hd_radio

Nice !

 

[PhilJSmith67]

So, now people won't have to fill out diaries by hand... kind of nice, really.

 

[vsa]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. And you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

It's definitely better than having to pound listeners over and over that they are listening to K### or W&&&. Now, don't forget....

As for HD radio stations? It won't do them any good at all. You need to buy an HD radio first, and they just aren't selling. Then, you need to set up an elaborate antenna or rabbit ears or even climb up on your rooftop to possibly get a signal.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. But you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

It's definitely better than having to pound listeners over and over that they are listening to K### or W&&&. Now, don't forget....

As for HD radio stations? It won't do them any good at all. You need to buy an HD radio first, and they just aren't selling.

And what do you base your comments on. What do you mean they aren't selling? Does it make sense that new radios are being manufactured if these companies felt they couldn't be sold? Did you know that Sangean is considering another HD radio to update their line? C'mon, you made a statement. Back it up with facts.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

You could easily say that about anything new. Until the late 70s there was a neglible number of FM radios sold, and FM (on 88 - 108) had been around for 30 years, with receivers available the entire time. Same goes for EDTV and HDTV displays. They didn't begin "move" off shelves until 2006.

At least now stations will have an accurate way to know how many or how few of their listeners listen via HD Radio.

 

[vsa]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. But you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

It's definitely better than having to pound listeners over and over that they are listening to K### or W&&&. Now, don't forget....

As for HD radio stations? It won't do them any good at all. You need to buy an HD radio first, and they just aren't selling.

And what do you base your comments on. What do you mean they aren't selling? Does it make sense that new radios are being manufactured if these companies felt they couldn't be sold? Did you know that Sangean is considering another HD radio to update their line? C'mon, you made a statement. Back it up with facts.

Just for starters:

iPods sold = 100,000,000 plus
HD radios sold = 500,000 tops
Anolog radios = 800,000,000 plus

"Wee Bee Audio (Lancaster, PA) has HD-ready car radios on display, but have not sold a single one."
http://www.wgal.com/news/11422632/detail.html

I could go on and on, but I'm taking off for the NAB Convention in Las Vegas, so others may have to do battle here. Mr. Burns, you write as if you have a personal financial stake in HD radio.

Bye!

 

[davideduardo]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. And you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

Not quite true. The motion sensing part is coupled with an algorithm that can determine normal movement and non-moevement periods, such as at work where a woman may have the device on a purse strap... so it accepts periods of non-motion as long as the pattern is not that of an "abandoned" meter.

 

[Ray22]

There is no way 500,000 HD radios sold/in use. Try and find ANY retailer that has sold more than a hundred or so in a years' time.

The PPM may also have problems with headphone radio users. The listener needs to patch into the PPM to make it count. That and motion sensing are issues to be determined. Good reason ARB isn't allowing comparing both PPM and diaries to be compared in the same market.

 

[davideduardo]

There is no way 500,000 HD radios sold/in use. Try and find ANY retailer that has sold more than a hundred or so in a years' time.

We know of a number of Texas retail outlets that individually have sold many hundreds just due to the Univsion Tejano network on HD in a half-dozen TX markets. The sales are building, with consumer electronics industry sources showing about 1,000,000 this year, and building. Remeber, the promotion campaign just began 9 months ago.

The PPM may also have problems with headphone radio users. The listener needs to patch into the PPM to make it count. That and motion sensing are issues to be determined. Good reason ARB isn't allowing comparing both PPM and diaries to be compared in the same market.

Arbitron (it has not been called "ARB" for about two decades) does all ow PPM and the diary to be compared. The near-two-year test of PPM in Philly three years ago gave PPM data to all subscribers, as well as to industry leaders. The Houston PPM data, which began release in June of 2005, allowed all subscribers in that market to compare month by month the data with the trends and quarterly diary-based ratings.

The mothion sensing aspect of the PPM device was introduced before the Philadelphia test... in other words, about 5 years ago. It wors perfectly.

With the roll-out following the Houston test, markets will simply switch to PPM. At that point, one can compare with the prior poeriod's diary data, but there are no simultaneous diary and PPM markets... Philly is "real time" and Houston is next: NY starts in the Fall book, followed by LA and Chicago in Winter, and then over two more years, all the top 50 markets.

 

[Mike Walker]

First that 100 million figure for Ipods is WORLDWIDE, the other figures are for America only. Second, the Ipod has been on the market FOR YEARS. I don't have an Ipod. It offers fewer features, narrower codec support, a smaller screen, poorer battery life, no fm tuner, no record ability, and many other limitations compared to other mp3 players...like my Archos! (the sample of HD Radio at my house that I have posted an annoying number of times was recorded on my Archos...in uncompressed 16 bit linear PCM at 44.1khz. Ipods can't do that!)

I DO have an HD Radio. As for PPM, I have mixed feelings. It's great that audience for the first time can be DIRECTLY measured. Some of the measurements are quite interesting...including the "cume" or total number of listeners in a week is quite a bit higher than was indicated by paper diaries. But I HATE, and I mean HATE the idea of so called "inaudible" data riding along with audio. It is, by definition, not "high fidelity", and frankly the idea sucks. Even if it can't be heard, the IDEA sucks. As I said, mixed feelings.

 

[PocketRadio]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. But you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

It's definitely better than having to pound listeners over and over that they are listening to K### or W&&&. Now, don't forget....

As for HD radio stations? It won't do them any good at all. You need to buy an HD radio first, and they just aren't selling.

And what do you base your comments on. What do you mean they aren't selling? Does it make sense that new radios are being manufactured if these companies felt they couldn't be sold? Did you know that Sangean is considering another HD radio to update their line? C'mon, you made a statement. Back it up with facts.

According to Master Theasus, a Sangean techical representative on another HD Radio site, unless more HDR-1s sell, Sangean may not be making the HDR-2 - Sangean is afraid that mainly radio-geeks are buying HD radios (good guess). As for HD radios not selling, very few are checking out the secret stations-between-the-stations on hdradio.com, which they would do naturally, if HD radios were selling (hdradio.com is on almost every comsumer flier that has been distributed by the HD Radio Alliance and is probably on display in stores selling HD radios):

http://www.statsaholic.com/hdradio.com

 

[R.F. Burns]

Quite nice and quite accurate. If the encoded audio is within earshot, it will get credited. But you have to be wearing it, since the pager-like device contains a sensor. You can't just leave it at home with the radio turned on as you leave for work. But you'll also have to wear it while listening at home. I wonder how at-home listening might be affected.

It's definitely better than having to pound listeners over and over that they are listening to K### or W&&&. Now, don't forget....

As for HD radio stations? It won't do them any good at all. You need to buy an HD radio first, and they just aren't selling.

And what do you base your comments on. What do you mean they aren't selling? Does it make sense that new radios are being manufactured if these companies felt they couldn't be sold? Did you know that Sangean is considering another HD radio to update their line? C'mon, you made a statement. Back it up with facts.

According to Master Theasus, a Sangean techical representative on another HD Radio site, unless more HDR-1s sell, Sangean may not be making the HDR-2 - Sangean is afraid that mainly radio-geeks are buying HD radios (good guess). As for HD radios not selling, very few are checking out the secret stations-between-the-stations on hdradio.com, which they would do naturally, if HD radios were selling (hdradio.com is on almost every comsumer flier that has been distributed by the HD Radio Alliance and is probably on display in stores selling HD radios):

http://www.statsaholic.com/hdradio.com

That's quite a stretch you've made there and get your hands out of your pockets. What he said was that they were waiting for initial supplies to be exhaisted. They've been out on the market less then 4 months. Y'know, if you believe so strongly in your opinions, there's no need to lie.

 

[Mike Walker]

Talk about a stretch. Master Thesus says sales are STRONG. It's a matter of whether the knowledge that a new model is about to be released will stall sales of the current model, that's all. I told Master that I would personally wait for the new one. He said he knows lots of people would, and that he's suffereing from hoof in mouth (paraphrasing, but that's the meaning and context).

Sales of the Sangean are STRONG, not weak. If you believe anything else, then you're not getting your info from Master!

 

[R.F. Burns]

Talk about a stretch. Master Thesus says sales are STRONG. It's a matter of whether the knowledge that a new model is about to be released will stall sales of the current model, that's all. I told Master that I would personally wait for the new one. He said he knows lots of people would, and that he's suffereing from hoof in mouth (paraphrasing, but that's the meaning and context).

Sales of the Sangean are STRONG, not weak. If you believe anything else, then you're not getting your info from Master!

Some of these Anti Iboc guys appear to have learned truth telling from reading the Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson best seller, improving race relations by always apeaking the truth.

 

[Tom Wells]

First that 100 million figure for Ipods is WORLDWIDE, the other figures are for America only. Second, the Ipod has been on the market FOR YEARS. I don't have an Ipod. It offers fewer features, narrower codec support, a smaller screen, poorer battery life, no fm tuner, no record ability, and many other limitations compared to other mp3 players...like my Archos! (the sample of HD Radio at my house that I have posted an annoying number of times was recorded on my Archos...in uncompressed 16 bit linear PCM at 44.1khz. Ipods can't do that!)

I DO have an HD Radio. As for PPM, I have mixed feelings. It's great that audience for the first time can be DIRECTLY measured. Some of the measurements are quite interesting...including the "cume" or total number of listeners in a week is quite a bit higher than was indicated by paper diaries. But I HATE, and I mean HATE the idea of so called "inaudible" data riding along with audio. It is, by definition, not "high fidelity", and frankly the idea sucks. Even if it can't be heard, the IDEA sucks. As I said, mixed feelings.

This is just wonderful. Portable People Meters can only register and track stations using the encoded data.
How do they presume to measure accurately time spent listening to stations which do not wish to buy into this system?

This seems designed to further marginalize smaller stations.
What about stations not wishing to inject data into their audio?
What about low-level listening in arears with ambient noise?

If Arbitron ratings were considered questionable before, this only seems like a way for stations to buy their way into a higher cume.
I find more reasons to distrust the results and conclusions drawn from the PPMs, as opposed to diaries.

Someone, please explain how stations not participating will be rated.
Will there be 2 systems, or will the non participants cease to show in the books?
How will non-participants negotiate advertising rates with advertisers in the face of apparent sudden loss of listenership?

 

[PocketRadio]

Talk about a stretch. Master Thesus says sales are STRONG. It's a matter of whether the knowledge that a new model is about to be released will stall sales of the current model, that's all. I told Master that I would personally wait for the new one. He said he knows lots of people would, and that he's suffereing from hoof in mouth (paraphrasing, but that's the meaning and context).

Sales of the Sangean are STRONG, not weak. If you believe anything else, then you're not getting your info from Master!

http://www.statsaholic.com/hdradio.com

Then, how come very few are checking out the secret stations-between-the-stations ?

 

[Mike Walker]

The radios have been available for less than a year. Most available models have been available for only a few months THIS year. We are at the very beginning of the promotion of brand new technology. Duh!

 

[PocketRadio]

The radios have been available for less than a year. Most available models have been available for only a few months THIS year. We are at the very beginning of the promotion of brand new technology. Duh!

"In-Stat: Digital Radio Set to Take Off"

" In 2006, 73 percent of respondents to an In-Stat U.S. consumer survey were aware of HD Radio on some level."

http://radiomagonline.com/eyeoniboc/instat-digital-radio-set/

But, 75% of consumers are aware of HD Radio, at some level - they are still not checking out the secret stations-between-the-stations. Actually, with the $500,000,000 HD Radio Alliance campaign promoting hdradio.com, as the go-to site for further information on HD Radio for the past year, most consumers would check out available HD stations, before buying HD radios, and certainly afterwards.

 

[Chuck]

We know of a number of Texas retail outlets that individually have sold many hundreds just due to the Univsion Tejano network on HD in a half-dozen TX markets.

Just out of curiosity, where?

When I purchased my Sangean HDT-1 tuner at Fry's in Dallas a couple of weeks ago, they didn't even know what I was asking for, much less have the receivers out where a consumer could just pick one up and put it in the shopping cart. To be fair, they did have two table radios out, with a couple of radios in back stock under those shelves. The display wasn’t very compelling though. The Sangean table radio was not plugged in, and the BA Receptor could only pick up a couple of stations inside the store.

It took two "sales associates" and about 20 minutes to find one of the six HDT-1 tuners their computer said they had in stock. That was only after I finally located the display tuner buried on a bottom shelf with the home satellite receivers. (The sales people couldn't find it at all).

Maybe this store was an exception, but if it was a really hot item, I'd think the sales people would know about it, and be able to quickly take your money. Dallas has about as much HD activity as any city in the country. It is also a city of early adopters. You’d think if this is going to be big, it would be big in Dallas.

I'm not insinuating that these things will never sell. Maybe they will, but the marketing effort on a retail level is not very impressive so far. The HD alliance needs to get its act together.

 

[awj223]

This thing is creepy. Doesn't anyone have any concerns about how easy it would be to turn this thing into an eavesdropping device? Imagine...a business exec has a discussion about confidential info from the car. The PPM, instead of recording only the tones from the radio, is also trojaned to record the entire audio spectrum, which gets compressed, stored in its memory, and sent off to a third party.

Also I don't see how it would work when you have splatter and/or IBOC hiss partially obliterating the signal you're listening to. The human ear can pick information out of some VERY noisy signals. Can the PPM do this just as well? If not, the TSL values are going to be inaccurate.