Are boomers NOT a good ad target?

[Don62]

Here's a fact. My stations are getting buys, locally, regionally and nationally, from direct and agents, that target 35-64 year olds on a daily basis, because they have the money. The stations are in the black, and ahead of last year. If you dig for gold and go to a coal mine, you'll come up empty. It looks like you're digging in the wrong spot.

Now, no agencies targeted 55+. It's a rediculous argument, and I know you're intelligent people. Why do you insist on screaming 55+ when no radio stations formats you or I are talking about are 55+? They're 35-64 for Oldies/Classic Rock. Big Band would truly be 65+, but to insist the other formats are 55+ is NOT a FACT. News/Talk? The few stations you spoke of are not a national trend.

Good points.
L.A. is not America. And what ad agencies do there isn't as important to stations in other markets.

That's hardly surprising when most stations are too lazy to solicit their own advertisements and accounts.

Many stations apparrently can't even recruit their own talent -- they're so used to bringing in programming and hosts off satellite - see this thread -
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,69270.50.html
I guess that revenue has become a crutch for them.

So much for the public's (i.e. local) interst, convenience and necessity...

 

[Don62]

L.A. shoulldn't have much effect on what listeners in Charlotte or Des Moines want.

Why rely so much on that overhyped area to determine what a local station's listeners may want?

Apparently, that entertainment center does. Hence the lousy variety of radio programming offered in most markets.

 

[davideduardo]

L.A. shoulldn't have much effect on what listeners in Charlotte or Des Moines want.

But we are not talking about listeners... we are talking about the revenue potential of any format that is focused on 55+ or has a majority of its listeners in that demo.

Why rely so much on that overhyped area to determine what a local station's listeners may want?

Simply, because LA is the largest radio revenue market in the world. If there were to be 55+ revenue from agencies, we would see it here. The smaller the market, the fewer agency buys there are.

 

[davideduardo]

L.A. is not America.

I must have missed the memo about LA becoming an independent republic. I'll check my in box.

And what ad agencies do there isn't as important to stations in other markets.

While there are local ad agencies, some agencies are regional and most are national. Most of the agency business comes from shops that buy media nationwide so whatever buying criteria they have in Des Moines they have in Denver and Detroit.

That's hardly surprising when most stations are too lazy to solicit their own advertisements and accounts.

You think agency buys come by e-mail or fax? Agencies are hard sells, although the sales techniques are very different from direct selling. It takes effort, relationships and a station with ratings to sell to agencies.

Many stations apparrently can't even recruit their own talent -- they're so used to bringing in programming and hosts off satellite

You know, there is a reason why Jay Leno dominates his time slot... and there are no local late fringe talk hosts eating his lunch (or midnight snack, as the cae might be). In the case of great talents, it is very hard to keep them in a single market. Stations do recruit talent. And if it is good, it gets quickly stolen by a bigger market or syndication.

I guess that revenue has become a crutch for them.

I don't understand this. If in some markets half or more of the available ad dollars come from agencies (in one Top 20 market I have been GSM in, agency business was 95% of our billing) then you think it is lazy to go after it? Ask any seller if pitiching an agency is easy....

So much for the public's (i.e. local) interst, convenience and necessity...

This is about sales, and the demos that allow a station to sell profitably. It has nothing to do with the listener since all stations have to program based on an expectation that the audience they may get will be of interest to advertisers... and it has been that way for 80 years.

 

[semoochie]

Since you brought it up, what would you say are the reasons behind KFI's success in this area and why similarly formatted stations are not as successful?

 

[davideduardo]

Since you brought it up, what would you say are the reasons behind KFI's success in this area and why similarly formatted stations are not as successful?

Several things: Robin, better news than KNX / KFWB, good local talent, better 25-54 than most AM talkers, ethnic polarization in LA, and, again, Robin.

 

[Don62]

As a former Oldies listener..... I've been saying this on the '50s/'60s Oldies board for the last 5 years. It's good to hear it from someone who is actually in the radio business.

Hey Fonz,
I imagine there are many listeners in the same boat, though few likely complain to the jerks that run the joint.

Where you are, the once legendary KONO oldies now plays only 70s retreads in San Antonio.

 

[Don62]

L.A. is not America.

I must have missed the memo about LA becoming an independent republic. I'll check my in box.

It's not at all representative of Middle America.
Only a resident there or one involved in entertainment would think so.
I doubt most product testing and sampling occurs there.

Look what happened to so many people who moved there and lost their roots.

Even Motown lost its soul when it relocated to LA.
Chicago, the greatest and biggest-selling 1970s pop-rock group, suffered as well.

 

[davideduardo]

It's not at all representative of Middle America.
Only a resident there or one involved in entertainment would think so.

I never said it represented a lifestyle. I said that agency buying patterns in the largest radio market would be reflected in every other rated market, and then mentioned 6 of the top 10 maarkets in the US, of which two are in Texas and one in Illinois, for example.

I doubt most product testing and sampling occurs there.

Product testing generally does not happen in large markets. It happens in isolated, smaller markets like Spokane or Bakersfield or Peoria or Macon.

Product sampling is the opposite. You start with the biggest market and work downwards.

Look what happened to so many people who moved there and lost their roots.

What does this have to do with the way agencies buy ad time on radio stations. Most buying centers are very big markets, by the way: NY, Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Atlanta, Miami, San Francisco and Seattle are the major buying centers for the US.

Even Motown lost its soul when it relocated to LA.

Now tell me how Motown has anything to do with media buying?

Chicago, the greatest and biggest-selling 1970s pop-rock group, suffered as well.

Idem.

 

[semoochie]

Thank you! I just thought that whatever makes KFI hit oodles of the right demos would attract most of the stations on your list to attempt the same thing.

 

[fang39]

Just curious...with all of his activity on this and other boards, when does David Eduardo find time to do any consulting? LOL!

 

[davideduardo]

Just curious...with all of his activity on this and other boards, when does David Eduardo find time to do any consulting? LOL!

I don't do any consulting, anyway. And this is being written at 6 AM on a Sunday while I wait for the LA Recuerdo Network server to reboot and to verify the music log...

Of 168 hours a week, supposedly 128 are ours. It takes me just a few minutes to type a post, at most. How long do you think it takes?

 

[davideduardo]

Thank you! I just thought that whatever makes KFI hit oodles of the right demos would attract most of the stations on your list to attempt the same thing.

LA has had an "issue" that is far more relevant here than in most other markets... illegal immigration. KFI has ridden this horse skillfully in a market that is 45% Hispanic and where as many as 2 million illegal immigrants may reside. Add to that a full news department that is extremely thorough and where the newscasters can actually read and understand the stories, and you have KFI. Of course, most markets can not afford local talent like the AM and PM drive hosts on KFI, so the options are far more limited in Fresno or Fargo or Fayetteville.

Many of the advantages that KFI enjoys are unique to LA. And thier PD is as good as they get. And that is why 43% of the AQH and 48% of the cume of KFI are under 55, which in LA is a huge number of people... and salable.

 

[wgliradio]

KFRC San Francisco.

Fin

 

[davideduardo]

KFRC San Francisco.

Fin

Yeah, an end to "oldies" as more and more stations realize the money is in "classic hits" and not "odies." The format is 35-54 in core, not 50-64 like 60's oldies. Songs are concentrated in 70's and 80's.

 

[menotti1]

do they play any 60's on KFRC? like years 67-69??thought they might have a few image songs from that era.

 

[skippertthomas]

KFRC should be classic hits.. The era of their beginning.. They were not a Top-40 / CHR until 1966... Not a heritage CHR, as others who came on board pre-Beatles..

 

[davideduardo]

KFRC should be classic hits.. The era of their beginning.. They were not a Top-40 / CHR until 1966... Not a heritage CHR, as others who came on board pre-Beatles..

A large number of the 60's Top 40's were not top 40 in the 50's. WIXY, Cleveland, Cklw-Detroit, KHJ Los Angles, and many more converted in the mid 60's. Others, like WLS in Chicago and WABC in NY converted at the beginning of the 60's, many years after the first Top 40's... particularly since the first Top 40 debuted in August of 1952!

In San Francisco, the early leader was KOBY, followed by KEWB and KYA...

In any case, classic hits is more a 70's and 80's thing, while oldies is 50's and 60's or, today, mostly only 60's.

 

[vibe]

After reading all the posts (whew and excellent points!) I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything but make the following few statements:
1. Certain assumptions are made that if a person is a certain age, then their tastes must be limited to a certain era/time period. A lot of people in my age range (57) had a very early exposure of music and were regular listeners at 9-12 y.o. My sister is 51 (sorry Jean) and purchased a lot of deep albums (for the time) such as Blind Faith at age 13. She prefers 60's music, particularly album cuts. But her tastes have evolved and likes just about anything that's good. Good music ages gracefully and attracts new listeners. But for the most part we're exposed to the same tired old songs. There's a good reason why car radios are equipped w/ so many presets.
2. Boomers will buy if their expectations are EXCEEDED. But then we will be loyal to that product.
3. Young ad execs should not make certain assumptions about our buying and listening habits. Get out of the office and skip a power lunch. Play a round of golf with us 50 somethings Ask us whatever U want. Do this once a week fort 6 months and you might be surprised with what we will buy and what we want to listen to on the radio.. You might be surprised.
You know I made a lot of assumption about the seniors who are 80+; I figure thy're over the hill, have the CRS syndrone etc. But when "God Bless America" is played at a holiday concert, they are the only ones who know the 2nd verse!

 

[OldiesCat]

huh?

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this, but I have no clue what the last post was trying to say.
???