Are boomers NOT a good ad target?

[fang39]

Re: huh?

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this, but I have no clue what the last post was trying to say.
???

Simple. He's saying that the conventional wisdom and stereotypes about older people being inflexible in their purchasing habits needs to be revisited. I agree. The research, according to Mr. Eduardo and others, is that the ROI to sell to the older demo makes it impossible to make money. I maintain that the Ad Community is lazy in their approach and prefer to take the cookie cutter approach to make money for their clients. They need to expand their horizons and think outside of the box. To coin an old phrase "there's gold in them there hills!" Still confused?

 

[amfmsw]

Wow! Someone agrees with me! The ad agencies need to stop steering the advertisers to the "youth movement". Steer them toward the money. 45-64yo.

 

[vibe]

I KNOW what I was trying to say. If boomers are not a good ad target, then perhaps ad agencies are the problem because of their assumptions. Get out of the office and meet people in my demographic. Perhaps there is a commonality to us boomers that will allow you to target this market more successfully. Go to a minor league ball game; analyze their. Work smarter, not harder. Think outside the box because your audience has a history of doing so itself! For radio folk: we are now coming up on summer w/ a lot of high school reunions in the area. Have a "class of 1977,or 1967 weekend when U know when there are some big reunions in the area. You might find that the class of 67 really enjoyed the class of 77's music and vice versa. If you're niche is classic hits and your're audience is fading, then why not have a classic hits all live weekend. Take a HUGE chance and play some album cuts; that's what made classic rock to begin with. We bought the album, not the single! Play "Yours is No Disgrace"by Yes instead of "Owner of the Lonely Hearts". Play "Come Dancing" by the Kinks instead of "Lola." Have a one hit wonder weekend. We're sick of the same old tired songs!!! how can we buy if we're not listening?
It shouldn't be that tough-sell us what we need and play what we want!

 

[davideduardo]

Wow! Someone agrees with me! The ad agencies need to stop steering the advertisers to the "youth movement". Steer them toward the money. 45-64yo.

Again: the ad agencies generally do not determine demos... the client does.

The client, in most cases, has research that determines who the prime consumers are. In product and service categories the product design is often based on a specific consumer target. The agency is instructed who to target and with nearly no exceptions the agency will design a campaign and select the ad media to match this target.

Ad agencies do not "steer" advertisers anywhere. They follow insturctions... they are service providers to their clents. In the majority of ad buys don't even include radio!

At the client end, the major reason why practically no ad buys include 55+ is that this group provides a poor return on investment for ad investments; it takes more frequency (more ads) to create a sale and, often, the cost of the sale is higher than the product margin.

 

[davideduardo]

3. Young ad execs should not make certain assumptions about our buying and listening habits. Get out of the office and skip a power lunch. Play a round of golf with us 50 somethings Ask us whatever U want. Do this once a week fort 6 months and you might be surprised with what we will buy and what we want to listen to on the radio.. You might be surprised.

First, radio is seldom the core for a campaign. It is a complement. Radio as an industry, and praticularly individual stations in specific formats, has no way to influence agency-bought campaigns.

Second, agecy staff does not determine campaign demos, the client does. And the client usually knows in great detail who buys and who the product is designed for. And they know the effect on sales of every dollar of ad expenditure, by demo, market, etc. As of now, there is no reason for clients to tell advertising agencies to add 55+ consumers to campaigns because of all these factors.

 

[OldiesCat]

boomers

I KNOW what I was trying to say. If boomers are not a good ad target, then perhaps ad agencies are the problem because of their assumptions. Get out of the office and meet people in my demographic. Perhaps there is a commonality to us boomers that will allow you to target this market more successfully. Go to a minor league ball game; analyze their. Work smarter, not harder. Think outside the box because your audience has a history of doing so itself! For radio folk: we are now coming up on summer w/ a lot of high school reunions in the area. Have a "class of 1977,or 1967 weekend when U know when there are some big reunions in the area. You might find that the class of 67 really enjoyed the class of 77's music and vice versa. If you're niche is classic hits and your're audience is fading, then why not have a classic hits all live weekend. Take a HUGE chance and play some album cuts; that's what made classic rock to begin with. We bought the album, not the single! Play "Yours is No Disgrace"by Yes instead of "Owner of the Lonely Hearts". Play "Come Dancing" by the Kinks instead of "Lola." Have a one hit wonder weekend. We're sick of the same old tired songs!!! how can we buy if we're not listening?
It shouldn't be that tough-sell us what we need and play what we want!

Programming your radio station around a few hundred people attending class reunions? Wow, there's a good chance to leave 95% of your audience out of what you're all about.

Besides, you're still barking up the wrong tree. Example: if I own a computer store and stock 50% Apple/Mac products and 50% Microsoft-based PCs, because I think (or think I know) the Mac stuff is superior, my business will go down in flames, since over 95% of computer buyers do not buy Mac products.
The response might be, "yes, but we all know the Apple stuff is just a lot better", that doesn't matter when people come through the door- it's up to me, as a business meeting customer demand, to make sure I have what they're asking for on my store's shelves. Using your logic, I should maybe grab every Microsoft type customer who comes in and force them to sit through a lecture on just how much better the Mac products are. Which would, of course, result in my customers saying, "screw you-give me what I asked for or I'll go somewhere else".

And radio doesn't work any differently- consistently successful radio stations #1 mission is to fulfill listener expectations and demand. And advertisers do mounds of research to find out who their customer base is and buy media according to that target.

I know, it's tough-some of you want to continue to do Sock Hops and play Elvis records. It was great while it lasted but it's time to move on.

 

[vibe]

In major markets there are hundreds of class reunions held during the summer each weekend. People have moved on to satelite due to the radio's belief that "Goodbye yellow Brick Road" is what their audience is demanding. Play that song enough in a laboratory and the mice will revolt.

 

[amfmsw]

Dave...you know I say this with respect to your experience, but the statement that agencies "don't steer clients" is laughable, rediculous, nonsense, and insults my intelligence.

I see it daily. I sell around it daily. I teach 'em daily. I prove 18-34 will not sell as many Chrysler 300's or Cadillac Escalades as talking to listeners 45-64 years old who love their music...daily.

Dave, think about your reputation! Puleeze!

 

[davideduardo]

Dave...you know I say this with respect to your experience, but the statement that agencies "don't steer clients" is laughable, rediculous, nonsense, and insults my intelligence.

I see it daily. I sell around it daily. I teach 'em daily. I prove 18-34 will not sell as many Chrysler 300's or Cadillac Escalades as talking to listeners 45-64 years old who love their music...daily.

Dave, think about your reputation! Puleeze!

That may be true of small agencies, but as a general rule agencies do not determine campaign demos... the Media Director gets instructions from above as to what to buy, prepares a plan for client approval based on reach and frequency and media to be used, and then the planners and buyers fill the requirements per the specified markets, demos, etc.

In the case of broad demos, it is possible to pitch the efficiency of a station that appeals to part of the demo, but media buyers are not allowed to change demos. Buyers look at CPP in demo, not m arketing opportunities.

 

[OldiesCat]

boomers

Dave...you know I say this with respect to your experience, but the statement that agencies "don't steer clients" is laughable, rediculous, nonsense, and insults my intelligence.

I see it daily. I sell around it daily. I teach 'em daily. I prove 18-34 will not sell as many Chrysler 300's or Cadillac Escalades as talking to listeners 45-64 years old who love their music...daily.

Dave, think about your reputation! Puleeze!

Then go start a revolutionary ad agency who's job it is to educate their clients and not place ad buys. You gents are viewing this sideways and preaching to the converted.

Once more: Oldies format (as it's been) is dying off because advertisers aren't targeting 55+ with radio buys. It's not because 31 year-old AE's aren't properly trained or because GSMs hate the format.

It just isn't that complicated; why do so many of you insist on making it so?

 

[TheFonz]

Re: boomers

Once more: Oldies format (as it's been) is dying off because advertisers aren't targeting 55+ with radio buys. It's not because 31 year-old AE's aren't properly trained or because GSMs hate the format.
It just isn't that complicated; why do so many of you insist on making it so?

And once again let's remember that advertisers didn't target today's 55+ generation when that group was 25+. That advertising money always went, and probably still does go, to newspapers. So I guess we could say that the radio ad salesmen back in the '60s weren't doing THEIR job.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: boomers

And once again let's remember that advertisers didn't target today's 55+ generation when that group was 25+. That advertising money always went, and probably still does go, to newspapers. So I guess we could say that the radio ad salesmen back in the '60s weren't doing THEIR job.

Huh? 30 years ago, very little advertising targeted at 25 year olds was in the paper... except the movie schedules and that was only because we did not have the web to provide data-based information like show times.

 

[amfmsw]

OC and DE: In today's paper, there's a feature article about Toyota's "Scion" brand, and how perplexed Toyota is that although the car was "targeted" for 16-34 year-olds, the median age buyer is over 31. There are as many buyers in their 50's.

Here's a case of what you both talk about, a major business telling the agency what they want. And my case of the people telling industry they're wrong. maybe we're both right.

 

[vibe]

It appears that the "market research" of the ad agencies is sometimes a series of assumptions made during their power lunches or most likely happy hours.
Can the people in the ad agencies, usually in The Big City, relate to the average consumer, sometimes out in nowhereland?
Sometimes the only way to relate to your target market is to live it/experience it.
If the agencies can and do miss (and badly) with their target market, then one can promote the argument that whoever makes the decision to play "Another Brick in the Wall" and "Stairway to Heaven" for the umpteeth time are missing badly on their end as well.

 

[davideduardo]

It appears that the "market research" of the ad agencies is sometimes a series of assumptions made during their power lunches or most likely happy hours.

Most of the research on a product is done by the client, not the agency. Agencies will do things like testing commercial concepts, impact studies, brand awareness, etc, but the big research as to product design and usability are done by the client way before the agency gets the account.

Can the people in the ad agencies, usually in The Big City, relate to the average consumer, sometimes out in nowhereland?

National ad buying centers are located in as diverse locations as Seattle, Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, etc. And whereever the are, they live by the success of their accounts.

Sometimes the only way to relate to your target market is to live it/experience it.

If your target is the Top 100 markets, or you have a reach target of 50% of the US population, etc., you can not "live in the market."

If the agencies can and do miss (and badly) with their target market, then one can promote the argument that whoever makes the decision to play "Another Brick in the Wall" and "Stairway to Heaven" for the umpteeth time are missing badly on their end as well.

This has to be the most illogical conclusion I have ever seen. What does the success or failure of a national or regional agency ad campaign have to do with the playlist of a local radio station?

Radio stations are for the most part local, and the decision to play "Brick" is based on local research and simple reach and frequency calculations in Arbitron to determine spin intervals.

 

[davideduardo]

OC and DE: In today's paper, there's a feature article about Toyota's "Scion" brand, and how perplexed Toyota is that although the car was "targeted" for 16-34 year-olds, the median age buyer is over 31. There are as many buyers in their 50's.

Here's a case of what you both talk about, a major business telling the agency what they want. And my case of the people telling industry they're wrong. maybe we're both right.

No, this is just a case of a product that was designed and researched for one demo, and turned out appealing to an addition one... sort of a bonus.

 

[fang39]

Re: boomers

Once more: Oldies format (as it's been) is dying off because advertisers aren't targeting 55+ with radio buys. It's not because 31 year-old AE's aren't properly trained or because GSMs hate the format.
It just isn't that complicated; why do so many of you insist on making it so?

And once again let's remember that advertisers didn't target today's 55+ generation when that group was 25+. That advertising money always went, and probably still does go, to newspapers. So I guess we could say that the radio ad salesmen back in the '60s weren't doing THEIR job.

You can't compare the two eras. Newspapers no longer have the advertising clout they once had, as circulation numbers have steadily declined over the years. Like radio, people have found other sources for information. If that's where 55+ ad dollars are going, advertisers are missing the boat.

The "profile" of the 55+ demo has changed significantly since the 1960's. This generation of 55+ is far more affluent and active than those from 40 years ago. In NYC, ads on Talk & News stations target an older demo than Music stations and those stations revenues seem to be consistently higher than the music stations targeting the 18-34 market. Why can't this be applied to music? Do we stop listening to music on the radio after a certain age? I don't think so!

 

[TheFonz]

Re: boomers

Huh? 30 years ago, very little advertising targeted at 25 year olds was in the paper... except the movie schedules and that was only because we did not have the web to provide data-based information like show times.

Well then, exactly WHO were advertisers targeting in those 100+ page daily and 300+ page Sunday newspapers I was hauling around on my newspaper route? And who is reading the ads in my 300+ page Sunday paper today?

 

[davideduardo]

Re: boomers

Huh? 30 years ago, very little advertising targeted at 25 year olds was in the paper... except the movie schedules and that was only because we did not have the web to provide data-based information like show times.

Well then, exactly WHO were advertisers targeting in those 100+ page daily and 300+ page Sunday newspapers I was hauling around on my newspaper route? And who is reading the ads in my 300+ page Sunday paper today?

A huge percentage of newspaper ad space was classified; many people only bought a paper when they wanted to buy a car or a dog or a used refrigerator or look for a job. Today, they use the web for that, which is why newspapers are thinner today.

Only a few markets have fat papers any more... most are much more lean, as circulation has declined and readership has become older and older.

Papers still get a lot of revenue from price-item ads, the staple of display advertising. Department stores, supermarkets, etc., use such ads to promote much more merchandise than can be fit in a radio or TV spot. Cupons were also a staple of the medium, although much of that has moved to direct mail and online printable cuponing.

The real issue is that in the 60's, you had little choice in news sourcing... it was the evening network news on TV, or a paper. Today, there are countless up to the minute sources, ranging from Drudge to CNN and local papers are trying to be online sources, too.

Another problem today for print is the fact that folks don't have the time to sit and read a paper. Commutes are longer, there are more two-person working families, and Americans work more hours than in the 60's. All this detracts from newspaper page reads and total circulation.

You see major papers like the LA Times for sale because it is barely profitable and where hundreds of jobs have been cut or have been announced... and total lines of advertising are way down along with circulation. Cities that had two or three papers have one and nearly no city has an afternoon paper any more.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: boomers

The "profile" of the 55+ demo has changed significantly since the 1960's. This generation of 55+ is far more affluent and active than those from 40 years ago. In NYC, ads on Talk & News stations target an older demo than Music stations and those stations revenues seem to be consistently higher than the music stations targeting the 18-34 market. Why can't this be applied to music? Do we stop listening to music on the radio after a certain age? I don't think so!

The reason that AM news and talk stations bill so well is twofold. First, they have as much as twice the inventory of a music station, and second they sell as a reach proposition to bulk up buys in that area. In most cases, they sell the 25-54, not the 55+. The 55+ is pretty much a bonus but one that is perceived as adding value to buying such a station.

The billing leader in NY is an AC, targeting 25-54, with much less inventory than a talker. But they get much higer rates as they deliver the sales demos better. In LA, the top billers are, in order, 18-34 alternative rock, a 35-54 strong news talk, an 18-34 CHR, 25-54 focused Jack, 35-54 targeted AC and a 12-34 targeted Hip Hop station.

There is room for a talker in every market, but few have more than one dominant one. And in very very large markets, all news bills well.

In 55+, using LA as an example, about 70% of the listening is to music stations, not talk...even though there are few music stations specifically targeted at that demo.

As to usage, interest in news and talk increases as a function of age... it always has. So instead of switching between three or four music stations as a 25 year old might, older demos might switch between two music stations and a talk outlet.