Are the FRESH stations AC?

[carolinaradio]

CBS Radio's Fresh 102.7 NYC, Fresh 105.9 Chicago, and Fresh 94.7 DC are all considered "AC" by most on this board, Mediabase, and CBS (now, their Fresh 102.5 in STL is AC). How so? The playlists are CLEARLY Hot AC. There is no 70s music, not a lot of 80s, and way too current based/aggressive for AC. Many of the currents being played aren't even AC hits! Here are WWFS-FM's top 10 songs:

1Bruno Mars - Just The Way You Are

2Pink - Raise Your Glass

3Train - Hey, Soul Sister

4Usher - DJ Got Us Fallin' In Love (w/ Pitbull)

5Katy Perry - Teenage Dream

6Taio Cruz - Break Your Heart (w/ Ludacris)

7Neon Trees - Animal

8Mike Posner - Cooler Than Me (w/ Big Sean)

9Christina Perri - Jar Of Hearts

10Alicia Keys - Empire State Of Mind II



Mike Posner? Pitbull? Neon Trees? Taio Cruz? That's just scratching the surface. I don't see how these Fresh FM's are really considered AC. A lot of the other songs played are way too aggressive to be heard on most AC stations. It's always been a little puzzling to me that these stations aren't considered Hot AC. How/why are they considered AC? They aren't in the same league as B101, WLTW, KOST, 93.9 WLIT, etc.

 

[the golden boy]

When I was in Chicago last year, I listened to Fresh and I considered it to be a hot AC. And what AC station would play an Usher song with Pitbull's rap and the same with Taio Cruz with Ludacris' rap?

 

[carolinaradio]

When I was in Chicago last year, I listened to Fresh and I considered it to be a hot AC. And what AC station would play an Usher song with Pitbull's rap and the same with Taio Cruz with Ludacris' rap?

That's what I don't understand...part of the reason these songs show up on the AC chart is because of stations like these that report as AC playing them.

There is nothing AC about the Fresh stations. I usually like CBS Radio, but I have to wonder with this one. AC has never been one of their strongest formats.

 

[the golden boy]

I was looking at Fresh FM Chicago's playlist from this morning and it seems like it straddles the fence between AC and hot AC. It's just that they're not playing standard-fare AC music. I see that they've added some 80s music, like "We Belong", "Raspberry Beret" and "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For". Not sure what to really make of them. It's still more hot AC-ish than AC, IMO.

 

[radiolives]

It seems the only really AC Fresh station that CBS Radio owns is Fresh 102.5 in St. Louis. Their playlist is different from Fresh 102.7 in New York. Also KEZK is the only AC station in St. Louis as CBS Radio owns the Hot AC Y98.

 

[carolinaradio]

KEZK is still an AC, even though the music is a little more modern than it was. They just gave it a needed image makeover.

Looking at WCFS's top songs, they look more rock based than Fresh in NYC. Less rhythmic and more older music. However, it is still Hot AC, no doubt about it. Top songs include Sick Puppies, Neon Trees, OAR.

WIAD/Fresh 94.7/DC is the most mainstream Hot AC of them all and is the most balanced, IMO. Again, not AC though.

 

[the golden boy]

I didn't realize CBS owned Y98. It makes since now why they didn't switch KEZK to hot AC.

 

[atlantaboy]

The one in D. C. is definitely Hot AC IMO - the NYC and Chicago stations are still hybrids I think, just cause they don't play enough currents IMO to be considered "Hot"

CBS definitely loves to program stations that "stretch" format boundaries lol

 

[atlantaboy]

KEZK is still an AC, even though the music is a little more modern than it was. They just gave it a needed image makeover.

Looking at WCFS's top songs, they look more rock based than Fresh in NYC. Less rhythmic and more older music. However, it is still Hot AC, no doubt about it. Top songs include Sick Puppies, Neon Trees, OAR.

WIAD/Fresh 94.7/DC is the most mainstream Hot AC of them all and is the most balanced, IMO. Again, not AC though.

WIAD doesn't play as much rhythmic stuff, but it's much more current-based than the other two

IMO if you're gonna classify a station as Hot AC vs. AC, you need to look at the actual spin numbers on allaccess.com (not just the "top songs" on yes.com)

 

[radiolives]

I didn't realize CBS owned Y98. It makes since now why they didn't switch KEZK to hot AC.

I did see somewhere forget what website that CBS might take Y98 to a more CHR route. So this might example the reason behind KEZK becoming Fresh 102.5. We should see down the road for St. Louis.

 

[the golden boy]

Should Y98 give up their heritage hot AC status to go after Z107.7? CBS has the females locked in with Fresh and Y, plus the legendary KMOX. Maybe Y has researched this and figured that this is the way to go.

 

[radiolives]

If this happens won't St. Louis be without a AC as KEZK now Fresh 102.5 is St. Louis's only AC station.

 

[carolinaradio]

Let me add...in NYC, the comparison seems to be Fresh 102.7 and 1067 Lite FM - actually, I think 95.5 WPLJ has more similarities to Fresh than WLTW.

 

[new_friends_gr]

Detroit's WNIC (100.3) just switched its name to "Fresh" after Christmas. The station has been the heritage AC station in the Detroit market, but now under the "Fresh" name, it is definitely more Hot AC than mainstream AC.

 

[grey_dan]

WCFS/Chicago is the Fresh station I've listened to the most, so most of my generalizations will be made from that perspective (I've listened a bit to Fresh NY and DC, but not nearly as much)...

I think there are a couple ways of looking at this question.

I'm not sure defining Fresh is so much a question of "AC vs. Hot AC," as much as it is "the new AC."  Over the next 10 years, AC radio as a whole will probably start moving more in the "Fresh" direction, moving away from the 70s, focusing more on the 80s through today, and adjusting their sound to play "contemporary music that adults like" (which may mean adding artists like Lady Gaga, Usher, and Taio Cruz shortly after they've peaked on Top 40).  Fresh may just be adopting that sound early.

This probably sounds like a cop-out answer.  And yeah, it kinda is.

So, sticking with the current definitions of AC and Hot AC... the jury is still out regarding Fresh, as far as I'm concerned.

Coming from Cincinnati, where our primary Hot AC (WKRQ) is very edgy and our AC (WRRM) is middle-of-the-road to maybe slightly edgy, it would be easy for me to look at the Fresh stations and say, yeah, they're AC.  But if I look at/listen to a neighboring market's Hot AC (WMMX/Dayton), I don't really hear much difference between it and Fresh.  (It should be noted that WMMX is still playing a lot of 80s music for a Hot AC, something that has come up a few times over on the Cincinnati Board.)  About the only real differences I've noticed between WCFS and WMMX are that WMMX seems to be a little more aggressive on newer music and tends to give more spins to their Currents.  Maybe CBS and the publications see that as the dividing line between AC and Hot AC.

IMO if you're gonna classify a station as Hot AC vs. AC, you need to look at the actual spin numbers on allaccess.com (not just the "top songs" on yes.com)

Agreed.  I'd take it a step further and say that you should also look at the playlist as a whole, how frequently their Currents get played vs. their Gold, how quickly they get on the new music crossing over from Top 40, and so on.  Looking at it from that perspective, WCFS seems to construct their playlist more like an AC than a typical Hot AC (albeit an AC that plays relatively hot music for the format).  As I said above, maybe TPTB consider that the dividing line between the Fresh stations and a Hot AC like WMMX.

When I was in Chicago last year, I listened to Fresh and I considered it to be a hot AC. And what AC station would play an Usher song with Pitbull's rap and the same with Taio Cruz with Ludacris' rap?

That's what I don't understand...part of the reason these songs show up on the AC chart is because of stations like these that report as AC playing them.

When it comes to songs featuring rap artists that also offer rap-less versions to radio, be careful about relying on Yes.com, Mediabase, or even the BDS charts to tell you which version a station is playing. 

I've heard the version of "Break Your Heart" without the Ludacris rap on a number of stations (including WCFS).  Yet both Yes and Mediabase listed the song on those stations as "Break Your Heart (f/ Ludacris)" (and the charts subsequently reported it as "(f/ Ludacris)").  Not really sure why, unless some publications would count each version as separate songs and the labels don't want their chart stats to be split.

But even though Yes, Mediabase, and BDS may be listing "Break Your Heart" as "f/ Ludacris," trust me, Fresh (at least in Chicago) isn't playing the Ludacris version--not unless they've recently changed course.  And while I haven't heard "DJ Got Us Fallin' in Love" yet on any Fresh stations (I actually haven't listened for a while), I'd be kind of surprised if they're actually playing the version with Pitbull.

 

[carolinaradio]

I enjoy listening to WMMX/Dayton on the iHeartRadio app sometimes. It is true that a lot of Hot AC's have shifted from the old "80s, 90s, now" approach with a pop/rock base to more like current hits/2000s and maybe some 90s with a more pop/rhy base. I like the older approach that WMMX still uses, but I suspect they will evolve eventually as well.

WRRM has always been one of my favorite AC's. I like their mix of 70s through today, just enough from each decade, IMO. 70s/80s get proper attention, they are bold (but not too bold) with currents, and play just enough 90s. They are not too edgy but not too sleepy, very good tempo for an AC in 2011. Another very good AC in Ohio is WSNY/Columbus, they exhibit many of the same things that I like about WRRM .... although I prefer Sunny a little more.

I will agree that the jury is out on Fresh. In MY opinion, WCFS/Chicago and KEZK/STL are the most AC'ish, while WWFS/NYC and WIAU/DC are Hot AC.

 

[carolinaradio]

I just thought I would add....this is a playlist from earlier today of a station I mentioned earlier, WSNY/Columbus, who is extremely traditional for an AC in 2011 (and from what I've heard online, a very good one).

12:49PM John Travolta & Olivia Newton-John - You're The One That I Want
12:52PM The Script - Breakeven
12:55PM Faith Hill - This Kiss
12:59PM Genesis - That's All
1:03PM Carly Simon- You're So Vain
1:07PM Elton John w/ George Michael - Don't Let The Sun Go Down on Me
1:11PM Lou Bega - Mambo #5
1:22PM John Cougar - Hurts So Good
1:25PM O.A.R. - Shattered
1:29PM Loggins and Messina - Danny's Song
1:34PM Adam Lambert - Whataya Want From Me
1:38PM Goo Goo Dolls - Name
1:49PM Climax Blues Band - I Love You
1:53PM Taylor Swift - Mine
1:57PM Aerosmith - I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing
2:01PM Kid Rock - All Summer Long
2:05PM James Taylor - How Sweet It Is
2:09PM Katy Perry - California Gurls
2:20PM Bee Gees - More Than a Woman
2:23PM Rascal Flatts - Bless The Broken Road
2:27PM Journey - Separate Ways
2:32PM Black Eyed Peas - I Gotta Feeling
2:37PM Blues Traveler - Runaround
2:41PM Bad English - When I See You Smile
2:52PM Elton John - Tiny Dancer
2:58PM Michael Buble - Hollywood

I guess my point was....none of the Fresh FM's sound like that. I consider most AC's to sound like the above. Yes, there is some crossover with H/AC, but that's a given with all of the stations. WCFS is not spinning its currents much more than WSNY (about the same), but WSNY looks like it programs from the AC chart, but WCFS is programming from the H/AC chart and is playing a wider variety of currents. They seem to be spinning the currents more like an AC, but programming from the H/AC chart, if that makes any sense.

 

[semoochie]

"2:32PM Black Eyed Peas - I Gotta Feeling" Is that the version with Hip-Hop or is there another one I haven/t heard? At first, I was surprised to hear it on Hot AC for that reason. "California Gurls" seems a little youngish also.

 

[carolinaradio]

I've only ever heard the hip hop version. I hate hearing AC's play that song.

"California Gurls" is extremely out of place, especially in January. Remember that most AC's play the edit without Snoop Dogg, but the song still doesn't seem very adult.

 

[Seltzer]

I've only ever heard the hip hop version. I hate hearing AC's play that song.

"California Gurls" is extremely out of place, especially in January. Remember that most AC's play the edit without Snoop Dogg, but the song still doesn't seem very adult.
[/quote

No Snoop Dog and "sex" edited out in the line "sex on the beach" is the only way to go for an A/C station. Still need to remain family friendly.