Are there any AM/FM HD Radio tuners left?

[satech]

Besides car radios, are there any AM/FM HD Radios still left on the market?

The Sony, Sangean, Insignia, and Auvio component tuners have all been discontinued.

The Sony, Boston Acoustics, Accurian, Sangean, TEAC, Radiosophy, and Directed Electronics tabletop HD Radios have all been discontinued as well.

The current portable and tabletop Insignia HD Radios at Best Buy are all FM-only.

At this point, AM IBOC stations might as well just switch over to C-Quam AM Stereo, because that would enable a far larger number of listeners to hear them in stereo, including many HD Radios.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Ditto that last sentence; while they're at it, restore their AM audio bandwidth to standard NRSC 10,2KHz too.
Leonard Kahn isn't around to protest the CQuam turn-back-ons, so why not run it if you've still got it?

 

[nd2023]

I heard Radio Disney 1560 on an AM Stereo radio many years ago before they got HD, and couldn't tell the difference between that and FM.

 

[Savage]

One more time (I've said this several times here.) If there's interest in resuscitating the 4700+ AM stations, it could be done in a low-bucks, rapid fashion, thusly:

Revive C-QUAM. Dump the NRSC preemphasis. Allow AMs to transmit to 12.5 kHz or even 14 kHz, with appropriate reduction of bandwidth at night in cases of adjacent-channel noise (but then just to 10 kHz.) Audio bandwidth switching with pattern change is easily done with today's modern digital processors. Mandate the same of all radio receivers to include not only AM and FM, but AM C-QUAM Stereo. Have the clever marketing gurus focus-group us a nice label which will WORK, something like " The New AM Hi-Fi." Or whatever.

Yes, I know the broadbanding will cause some interference, but it will be nowhere near as objectionable or destructive as IBOC. In egregious adjacent-channel cases require dialing back to 10 kHz.

Compared with today's HD noisefest and stranged 4.5 kHz analog the band would sparkle, comparatively speaking.

 

[Ai4i]

Besides car radios, are there any AM/FM HD Radios still left on the market?

Here.

Leonard Kahn isn't around to protest...

Upon reading this, I did my best to find a bio on him but fell shortly.
Is he no longer around as in, no longer around?
His was the best system of all, Motorola did to him what Sarnoff did to Armstrong, although a window in a skyscraper was likely not involved.

 

[mmnassour]

Besides car radios, are there any AM/FM HD Radios still left on the market?

Here.

Leonard Kahn isn't around to protest...

Upon reading this, I did my best to find a bio on him but fell shortly.
Is he no longer around as in, no longer around?
His was the best system of all, Motorola did to him what Sarnoff did to Armstrong, although a window in a skyscraper was likely not involved.

Yes, he is no longer around...and engineering is the poorer for it. RIP LK.

http://rbr.com/am-stereo-cam-d-inventor-leonard-kahn-passes/

And then there's......this. Sigh. It's kind of sad at the end, but it's pure Kahn.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110726013102/http:/www.wrathofkahn.org/

 

[Ai4i]

Yes, he is no longer around...and engineering is the poorer for it. RIP LK.

S rry to learn this.
His AM stereo system sounded great and had range equal to a station's mono range.
He should have, would have, could have lived to be a hundred.

Just read the comments on your first link.
My life would have been richer if I had known him.

 

[satech]

Revive C-QUAM. Dump the NRSC preemphasis. Allow AMs to transmit to 12.5 kHz or even 14 kHz,

At this point we're just lucky that iBiquity and Clear Channel didn't succeed in forcing all analog AM stations to cut their audio down to 5 kHz.

And although they do not transmit C-Quam anymore, there is one 50,000 watt Canadian station with a powerful skywave signal that covers much of the Northeastern USA at night, which is transmitting audio bandwidth that considerably exceeds 10 kHz.

This is easy to do with their CRL audio processing, as all you need to do is "accidentally" bump the NRSC filter switch into the off position.

 

[tomservo]

I'm all in for Savage's suggestions. The band would be better for it, even if the majority of radios in use today couldn't take advantage of some or all of the improvements.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I went to Best Buy and found out that they took their newly retooled HD portable off the pegs - nowhere to be found!
They also do not have the new mini-baby 'table-top' FM HD either, or do they have the new tabletop with both FM & AM.
After asking 3 employees, they were able to find one ipod/HD box, but not an HD-only and told me I would have to order the portable HD's from their website and have it shipped to store. Heck, they had 6 different SatRads, but couldn't cough-up a single $50 portable HD.
Wonder whey they took it down off the portable section at my store?

 

[Savage]

Probably when the sales units dropped to less than one on average per month. Also a factor was the years-long history of HD products being returned because of poor performance.

I haven't seen an HD product on retail display locally in more than two years....except for car tuners with "HD capability."

Last time I inquired about standalone receivers was probably some time in 2009 or 2010; both at Rat Shack and BB the sales greeb offered to order it for me with free shipping. They admitted they personally had never had any inquiries about HD.

 

[tomservo]

It's probably too soon for a model refresh so yeah, they probably got pulled due to lack of sales. I did see the FM portable and reading radio HD units at BB last time I was there, but that was a few months ago.

 

[hipporadio]

One more time (I've said this several times here.) If there's interest in resuscitating the 4700+ AM stations, it could be done in a low-bucks, rapid fashion, thusly:

Revive C-QUAM. Dump the NRSC preemphasis. Allow AMs to transmit to 12.5 kHz or even 14 kHz, with appropriate reduction of bandwidth at night in cases of adjacent-channel noise (but then just to 10 kHz.) Audio bandwidth switching with pattern change is easily done with today's modern digital processors. Mandate the same of all radio receivers to include not only AM and FM, but AM C-QUAM Stereo. Have the clever marketing gurus focus-group us a nice label which will WORK, something like " The New AM Hi-Fi." Or whatever.

Yes, I know the broadbanding will cause some interference, but it will be nowhere near as objectionable or destructive as IBOC. In egregious adjacent-channel cases require dialing back to 10 kHz.

Compared with today's HD noisefest and stranged 4.5 kHz analog the band would sparkle, comparatively speaking.

As is ALWAYS the case, I agree with Mr. Savage. "HD Radio" on the AM band was fraught with flirtatious fiction, and was more destructive than productive – a pedestrian in the discipline of radio engineering COULD HAVE identified such from the git-go. I was a late 20/early 30-something when C-QUAM AM stereo crusaded for acceptance within the consumer electronics industry and listening public. Aside from the issue regarding the FCC's lack of initial standardization, that otherwise-advance in AM radio modulation technology was SOUND – and offered a significant increase in audio quality—given a tuner that could take full advantage of its capabilities. It SHOULD have-had a fair starting whistle on its initial run! Unfortunately, that era saw many AM stations abandoning their former music formats, and many that remained tried to implement the AM Stereo system via ancient plate-level-modulated tube transmitters—that often cranked-out more audio distortion than desirable music. WHAT would have Motorola's invention sounded like had it been presented via a contemporary Omnia processor and solid-state BE or Nautel transmitter? I'll offer two analogies...
I own three component tuners that were specifically marketed to offer enhanced AM band performance IN STEREO: [1] the 1989 Carver TX-11B, [2] the Denon 680NAB, and [3] the hand-built-Jeff-Deck Meduci AM-only tuner—that’s external appearance mimics a "science fair project", but what is "under the hood" represents THE FINEST attempt at demodulating STEREO WIDEBAND AM RADIO. http://meduci.com/pro1k.html. The results of all three on a modern-day AM station with current transmitting equipment are near-equal with what most would perceive as offered from the garden variety FM station [given a strong local signal] – the Meduci tuner is AWESOME in its rendering! You have to hear-it on a well-engineered music station to appreciate it
There is ONE station emphatically-dedicated to this fading transmission method—900 WNMB in the Myrtle Beach, SC market. They play "oldies" IN AM STEREO, and its LOCAL OWNER tirelessly-promotes that. I occasionally cruise up the SC coast to within their service area with the Meduci tuner plugged into a muscular Sony boom-box. The audio offering is AWESOME! "Back Home In Indiana", demure 250-watt 1580 WIFE —Connersville in mono offers a retrograde music format thru a recent BE rig and Omnia 5EX audio processor. On the Meduci I tote there – plugged into an external Soundblaster USB audio interface to an old Dell laptop PC feeding a Klipsh THX-certified 2.0 sound system, WIFE near-perfectly mimics an FM band listening experience [albeit mono]. The contract engineer there ["Bob On The Job" here on R-I] DOES NOT restrict permissible transmission bandwidth [it's "glorious 9.9kHz NRSC"]. I'd settle for that, and a tuner that can *really* demodulate such! :'( what's happening to AM Radio!

 

[badjef]

If you wanted to kill the AM (or any other radio service for that matter), come up with a way of limiting the range and interfere with the comfortable listening the listener had become accustomed. And while you are at it, stay away from any system that will actually improve it.

C-quAM was off more than it was on.
iBoc causes interference.

This is not a coincidence, this has been a purposeful way of correcting a mistake the FCC did when they decided to allocate FM to 45Mc and then moved it to the 88-108.

AM, FM, and TV all could have gone stereo at the same time.

"Politics trumps everything." - me

If Leonard Kahn was so hard to deal with, then try his system now that he is not there to argue with you.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[hipporadio]

With all due respect, Jeff, my observation of AM stereo via the Kahn-Hazeltine method was less-than enticing – and I made those evaluations on 660 WNBC New York on the famous Sony multi-system "Walkman" that was widely-available in the mid-1980s. Despite the reality that algebraic math was not an "A" subject for me, I buckled-down and tried to fairly evaluate all the competing AM stereo systems then. I arrived at the conclusion that the HARRIS system was the best—likely because of its technical union with the merits of synchronous AM reception capability. Harris DIDN'T "win" that race, but the Motorola C-QUAM system introduced an enhanced AM listening experience. Sadly, it didn't have a fair opportunity due to the factors I described in my prior post.
So what-of AM broadcasting today? TWO generations discount it, and the later doesn't-even know–how to engage it on the shrinking number of consumer electronics devices that can still tune it [TRUE story from personal interaction with a 20-year-old]. Under those conditions, if I had "the answer" – I'd be a "Radio Superstar" – but I DON'T!
Interestingly, I still feel that some retrograde music formats actually SOUND BETTER on AM RADIO! I'll always have a soft-spot in my heart for that band!

 

[badjef]

With all due respect, Jeff, my observation of AM stereo via the Kahn-Hazeltine method was less-than enticing – and I made those evaluations on 660 WNBC New York on the famous Sony multi-system "Walkman" that was widely-available in the mid-1980s. Despite the reality that algebraic math was not an "A" subject for me, I buckled-down and tried to fairly evaluate all the competing AM stereo systems then. I arrived at the conclusion that the HARRIS system was the best—likely because of its technical union with the merits of synchronous AM reception capability. Harris DIDN'T "win" that race, but the Motorola C-QUAM system introduced an enhanced AM listening experience. Sadly, it didn't have a fair opportunity due to the factors I described in my prior post.
So what-of AM broadcasting today? TWO generations discount it, and the later doesn't-even know–how to engage it on the shrinking number of consumer electronics devices that can still tune it [TRUE story from personal interaction with a 20-year-old]. Under those conditions, if I had "the answer" – I'd be a "Radio Superstar" – but I DON'T!
Interestingly, I still feel that some retrograde music formats actually SOUND BETTER on AM RADIO! I'll always have a soft-spot in my heart for that band!

There were a lot of people in the Harris camp. I don't think Harris was serious about it after they saw there would be a diminishing return of long term investment. I don't think I ever heard a Harris system although it is possible after they combined with Motorola.

As with WNNBC, I had a cassette deck in my car and recorded both Motorola and Kahn up and down the East Coast on I-95 and throughout Florida. I had hours of air checks with both systems. WNBC was in Kahn stereo past Petersburg, Va. None of the C-quAM lasted near that long. On a percentage basis, I estimate about 70% of the mono signal against 110% of the mono signal for Kahn. Meaning, while the audio was "in the grass", the stereo pilot still saw the signal and decoded it. The platform motion made the counting of pulses to be too tight to stay in stereo with Motorola. It was out of stereo more than it was in. If I hit the horn, next to the towers, it would go into mono.

There was a thought back then, that Motorola wanted the AM band for cellular. I never saw any proof for that claim but I never discounted it either due to the newness of cellular and the different directions in which imagination was to the (then) new technology.

As a sidebar, I still have the SRF-A100, I listen to the Raysball games in wide mode and envision stereo was still here. It is still a killer radio.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

If I were to set up a home IBOC tuner today, I'd probably have to buy a car radio and set it up as a home component tuner. This isn't as hard as it sounds - all you need to do is supply a 12V supply and an antenna. Most car radios such as the Pioneer units have low level RCA output jacks, and the amplifier IC's inside are protected against no load conditions. The result might not look very good unless you have some wood working skills and can place the radio and power supply in a cabinet.

The antenna is a bit of a problem, but you can probably fashion a car radio antenna plug to 75 Ohm coax connector pretty easily, the impedance mismatch would not be severe.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

SRF-A100 is a killer radio (for AM) - if that was to come back with some DSP noise blanking, it was be hot.

As far as Harris AM stereo, I listened to CKLW, and it was better than FM quality when they were Harris and when Ed B was the CE there before
he went over to WJR and made them sound fantastic in stereo (Tiger home games, UofM home games and Thanksgiving Day Christmas Parade - all live events in stereo AM on WJR). WSM & KMOX sounded great in the 90's too.

WLS is the last of the clears to have a nice analog stereo signal, along with local/regionals WNMB, CFCO, WIRY, KCJJ, WBCO and a new one in the thumb of Michigan that flipped-on the CQuam this summer.

All of the Crawford AM stations used to have a nice CQuam stereo signal before they switched over to HD, as did most of the AM Radio Disney's.

 

[KB1OKL]

Interestingly, I still feel that some retrograde music formats actually SOUND BETTER on AM RADIO! I'll always have a soft-spot in my heart for that band!

50's and 60's pop and rock n roll sounds great on AM and belongs there.