Are There Any Rules Regarding Numbering Of Subchannels?

[tripinva]

I'm sure 37 can be used, but KAXT requested 1 from the FCC, not 37.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

I wonder why channel 37 can't be used for mapping it's not like the actual channel is being used.

I suppose it could be if the FCC gave their assent.

Really the challenge is to ensure virtual channels are unique within a service area. It's not a big deal if W19CO uses virtual channel 1-1. It is a somewhat bigger deal if both W19CO and WEAR choose to use 1-1 -- if more than one station in the same service area choose to use the same virtual channel. Which one comes up first? Who gets to be first on the dial?

I think the Commission didn't want to get stuck with the job of arbitrating virtual channel disputes. They wanted an effective and objective means of assigning virtual channels; the ATSC gave them a scheme that has worked very well; and they're prepared to handle the rare case where it doesn't.

There is, by the way, a mechanism for assigning major virtual channels 70-99. It's seen very little use.

 

[w9wi]

I'm sure 37 can be used, but KAXT requested 1 from the FCC, not 37.

It does kinda beg the question, why didn't the FCC tell KAXT to use the existing mechanism to assign something between 70-99?

(I know why KAXT wanted something significantly lower than 70, and why they didn't ask for, say, channel 10 - or something else "more normal"..)

 

[tripinva]

It may not be a problem for W19CO-D to operate on 1-1, but without specific FCC permission, the ATSC standard says they need to be on 19-1.

As for 70-99, the PSIP standard says:

"Values for major_channel_number from 70 to 99 may be used to identify groups of digital services
carried in an ATSC multiplex that the licensee wishes to be identified by a different major channel
number. Values 70 through 99 must be unique in each potential receiving location or the receiver
will not be able to correctly select such services. For example, a local licensee transmitting
community college lectures in its bit stream may want to use a major_channel_number different than
its own major_channel_number for the virtual channel carrying the lectures. The assessment of the
feasibility of using this capability, as well as the coordination process for assignment of these
major_channel_number values is beyond the scope of this document."

So I'm not sure that applies to KAXT either.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

It may not be a problem for W19CO-D to operate on 1-1, but without specific FCC permission, the ATSC standard says they need to be on 19-1.

Absolutely. I wasn't clear on that -- what I meant was, that from a strictly *engineering* standpoint there is no problem with W19CO-D being on 1-1. It wouldn't break anything.

At least not until somebody else in Pensacola decided it was OK for *them* to use 1-1 as well.

As for 70-99, the PSIP standard says:

"Values for major_channel_number from 70 to 99 may be used to identify groups of digital services
carried in an ATSC multiplex that the licensee wishes to be identified by a different major channel
number. Values 70 through 99 must be unique in each potential receiving location or the receiver
will not be able to correctly select such services. For example, a local licensee transmitting
community college lectures in its bit stream may want to use a major_channel_number different than
its own major_channel_number for the virtual channel carrying the lectures. The assessment of the
feasibility of using this capability, as well as the coordination process for assignment of these
major_channel_number values is beyond the scope of this document."

So I'm not sure that applies to KAXT either.
[/quote]

I am of course having great difficulty locating it at this point but..... I have seen a document indicating the registration of certain major channel numbers in the 70-99 range by certain broadcasters. I recall USDTV being one of them. (this is the firm that tried & failed to compete with cable by using conditional access on "subchannels" of Salt Lake City DTV stations) Tribune was another. I don't recall whether they were registered with the FCC, the ATSC, or some other organization...

You're right, it's not directly applicable to KAXT's case.

 

[tripinva]

http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/standards/52-published-standards/79-atsc-major-virtual-channels

That's the document you were looking for.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/standards/52-published-standards/79-atsc-major-virtual-channels

That's the document you were looking for.

- Trip

Exactly.

It's less formal than I remembered, but it would still seem to be a reasonable place to "register" if you're going to use a "wrong" major virtual channel.

 

[Poledo]

I guess the FCC must not have a problem with W19CO broadcasting on channel 1.1. We know they are paying attention to the Mobile market because they recently made WDPM move from virtual channel 4 to virtual 31. They had a good reason for the WDPM situation though, we have WWL-TV and WTVY-TV, both with virtual channel 4, about 150 miles away with signals that overlap with WDPM. The closest virtual 31 would probably be Albany (Doerun), Georgia, about 225 miles (or two markets) away.

Since we're on the topic, how did WPAN wind up on virtual channel 40?

I liked it better when the major networks were grouped together on channels 3, 5, 10, and 15, with all the religious and indie channels on higher numbers that were easy to ignore.

 

[tripinva]

WPAN wasn't transmitting any PSIP last time I checked, so they're not really on "virtual" channel 40. They're on real channel 40 and without PSIP, it's not remapping anywhere.

The FCC's not so much "paying attention" to Mobile so much as WDPM asked for 4 (then 6) and the FCC said no to both requests. Thus, WDPM is now 31-1. I have to think that if W19CO-D was to ask the FCC, they'd get a letter about the necessity of mapping to 19-1.

By the way, when did W19CO-D change their mapping? I have TSReader data from mid-April showing them as 19-1.

- Trip

 

[Poledo]

I rescanned a few weeks back and got W19CO-D for the first time. That might have been the first time I've rescanned in Pensacola this year. I think they were still on in analog before. I suppose it could be a bug in my tuner putting it on 1.1, but I don't have any idea how to view the "header" data on the TV streams.

Other Pensacola TV notes: WBQP-LP had ceased broadcasting digitally on channel 7 but is now back to their old analog signal on channel 12. WCTU (46) is now running 4 sub channels, but they have the same christian programming on .1 and .2 and test patterns on .3 and .4, they must be getting ready to roll out some more channels.

 

[tantric38]

Me-tv 26.2 runs old sitcoms and for awhile had the tagline, "Me-tv is Comedy." They also run infomercials on weekend mornings. Now, are the infomercials supposed to be funny?
One Saturday about a week ago they showed the same infomercial on 26.1, .2 & .3 at the same time! There's nothing funny about that. That's just sad.