ARE THERE ANY TRUE ALL NEWS STATIONS IN FLORIDA?

[jmtillery]

With the excepetin of Headline News affiliates, are there any All News radio stations in Florida? WINZ Miami was All News, All The Time until Clear Channel acquired it and added talk and sports programming to the mix, but are there any real Florida news stations left? Not News-Talk, but true All News produced and programmed "In-House"?

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[MN Maniac]

When WORL-660-Altamonte Springs first went on-the-air (1999?), they were all-news. Pretty sure it was via satellite, though.

Locally produced all-newsers are a tough find, largely because of the high labor costs required to do it right. The best example I know of is WBBM-780 in Chicago. I have a button set on them and listen often when I'm out at night. They've been doing it right for 40 years.

Given CBS' current dire financial shape, however, I'm not sure how long WBBM will continue in it's present state. (They cut at least 11 positions in Minneapolis just yesterday. Yikes!)

 

[jmtillery]

Yes, I remember when WORL 660 first signed on they were carrying AP network news 24/7. We had that same format here in Ocala on WTMC when it first became WCFI in 1999. AP was later dropped in favor of going back to CNN Headline News, both great news sources, but I was just wondering if there were any All News stations left in Florida that were programmed "in-house" much like you described WBBM to be. I like listening to WCBS and WINS New York online. I'll check out WBBM now that you mention it. They're all CBS owned and operated stations so I'm sure there are similarities and excellent content quality.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[drt]

Yes, I remember when WORL 660 first signed on they were carrying AP network news 24/7. We had that same format here in Ocala on WTMC when it first became WCFI in 1999. AP was later dropped in favor of going back to CNN Headline News, both great news sources, but I was just wondering if there were any All News stations left in Florida that were programmed "in-house" much like you described WBBM to be. I like listening to WCBS and WINS New York online. I'll check out WBBM now that you mention it. They're all CBS owned and operated stations so I'm sure there are similarities and excellent content quality.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

HI Mark,

I waited two days to respond, hoping someone had a better answer than mine!

As far as the larger markets go, it seems they can't have enough sports stations or talk/news stations on the a.m. band!

As far as a full service news outlet, i.e. WCBS 880 or WBBM 780, in Florida, I'm not aware of any.

The closest thing I have found is one day while dx'ing on the Gulf, I picked up a station out of Pensacola (I believe 1620 was the frequency) and it had about half news and half talk, but the talk was local and the interviews were about local issues and news; but that's still not the calibre of WCBS, WINS or WBBM.

Sadly that's absent in Florida.

And with all the strong signals coming in out of Cuba, even WCBS is not an option most night.

drt
st. petersburg

 

[jmtillery]

Yes, I remember when WORL 660 first signed on they were carrying AP network news 24/7. We had that same format here in Ocala on WTMC when it first became WCFI in 1999. AP was later dropped in favor of going back to CNN Headline News, both great news sources, but I was just wondering if there were any All News stations left in Florida that were programmed "in-house" much like you described WBBM to be. I like listening to WCBS and WINS New York online. I'll check out WBBM now that you mention it. They're all CBS owned and operated stations so I'm sure there are similarities and excellent content quality.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

HI Mark,

I waited two days to respond, hoping someone had a better answer than mine!

As far as the larger markets go, it seems they can't have enough sports stations or talk/news stations on the a.m. band!

As far as a full service news outlet, i.e. WCBS 880 or WBBM 780, in Florida, I'm not aware of any.

The closest thing I have found is one day while dx'ing on the Gulf, I picked up a station out of Pensacola (I believe 1620 was the frequency) and it had about half news and half talk, but the talk was local and the interviews were about local issues and news; but that's still not the calibre of WCBS, WINS or WBBM.

Sadly that's absent in Florida.

And with all the strong signals coming in out of Cuba, even WCBS is not an option most night.

drt
st. petersburg

DRT,

Like you, I was hoping for a bigger response since I figured there had to be at least one All News station in Florida, but apparently there isn't one anywhere within the state that is programmed "in-house". I would have thought that cities as big as Miami, Tampa-Saint Petersburg, Orlando and even Jacksonville, each would have at lease one All News station. I believe that WINZ MIami was, indeed, All News at one time. Jacksonville had its short-lived WEXI-AM 1280 (a daytimer) which was All News. Gainesville had a run with All News on WAJD-AM 1390. That station was anchored with UF students, including reporters, however, that format was also short-lived on WAJD.

If I am not mistaken, I believe WHNZ-AM 570 Tampa Bay may have dabbled with All News at one time. The former WSUN-AM 620 Tampa Bay programmed All News as WSAA when it rebroadcast "Bay News 9" from the cable system. I also think that the former WWQT-AM 1470 Dunedin (Tampa) programmed an All News format for a while. I don't recall if Orlando ever had an All News formated station although WDBO came close with it's blend of News-Talk. WTTB-AM 1490 Vero Beach was All News back in the early 80s, carrying two major national networks - CBS and MBS (Mutual).

Realizing that a true All News programmed radio station is expensive to operate, I'm also wondering if All News is a dying format? I would think there would always be a need for a locally produced All News station as it is providing news of local interest, catering to the information needs of the local community.

That's just my take... I welcome anyone elses opinion and feedback...

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[drt]

Hi Mark (and hopefully many others about to respond!)

I'm not sure if WHNZ was all news, they could have been, but I do know they had at one point in time, 570 WHNZ had a four hour morning newsblock, a 90 minute or two hour midday news block, as well as an afternoon/evening newsblock. This would have been in the mid 1990's.

A year or so ago, Pittsburgh (which is a smaller market than St.Pete/Tampa or Ft. Lauderdale/Miami) had an all news outlet; so it is amazing that some market in Florida doesn't have one, unless you count the one in Pensacola on the extended band.

Back in either 2002 or 2003 when WFTL - 850, West Palm Beach first kicked in with their new powerful signal (believe their call letters were different then) they were advertising that they were going to be an all news statio and I think that lasted a few months, before they starting slipping in talk shows, and eventually it was all talk.

There was a mention, I believe on the site's home page today, that WINS 1010 and WCBS 880 are the top rated two stations in the latest NY ratings. (WCBS being number 1); on WINS same frequency is another 50,000 watt (east west directional) station owned by WCBS that is floundering, I wish CBS would consider an ALL NEWS format, even if it meant simucasting WINS 1010 out of NY all or even most of the day, with local news breaks. Local news on the radio is sadly lacking in the St. Pete/Tampa market; the number one rated AM station WFLA talk/news supposedly doesn't even do live local news after 7pm, everything after 7pm and overnight is pre-recorded.

drt

 

[Poledo]

The closest thing I have found is one day while dx'ing on the Gulf, I picked up a station out of Pensacola (I believe 1620 was the frequency) and it had about half news and half talk, but the talk was local and the interviews were about local issues and news; but that's still not the calibre of WCBS, WINS or WBBM.

WNRP 1620 in Pensacola is almost all locally programmed news/talk, but as you noticed it's mostly talk. The station is only about a year old and hasn't pulled in very good ratings, so no one knows what it's future holds. The successful noontime "In Your Head Radio" news show recently quit the station deciding that running an internet blog for their news was a better use of their time.
One possibility I can see for success at WNRP comes from a rumor that Luke McCoy will be leaving Cumulus' top local news/talker WCOA at the end of the year. If he jumps to WNRP he could pump some life into that station and get it on the map.

 

[jmtillery]

I would think Tampa Bay would be a prime market for a real All News formatted station, and I am somewhat perplexed that there isn't one now. If I am not mistaken, I believe that WSUN-AM 620 attempted an All News format back in the late 80s when CBS first acquired that station along with the former WYNF-FM 94.9. CBS later sold WSUN to Cox Radio who unsuccessfully tried to make a go with classic country.

As mentioned in an earlier post, WSUN attempted All News again under the call letters WSAA when it re-broadcast Bay News 9. I would think that WFLA would increase its local news programming.

And, yes, I think WQYK-AM 1010 with its 50kw daytime signal would be one possibilty for an All News radio outlet. WTBN 570 has another great signal that would be a good All News fit in the Tampa Bay area.

Regarding WNRP, I haven't listend to that one, yet. I think that station was classic country at one time, wasn't it? With the expanded band frequency and 10kw ND signal, that should be a very good signal for an All News formatted station in that area. Is WPNN-AM 790 still programming CNN Headline News for the area?

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[Poledo]

Regarding WNRP, I haven't listend to that one, yet. I think that station was classic country at one time, wasn't it? With the expanded band frequency and 10kw ND signal, that should be a very good signal for an All News formatted station in that area. Is WPNN-AM 790 still programming CNN Headline News for the area?

Yes, WNRP started off as a very good Classic Country station with live jocks during the day. It was my favorite radio station for the two years or so it was on the air. The change to news was very sudden, but it should have been easy to predict with the calls WNRP (News Radio Pensacola?), news must have been the plan all along.
790 has been rebroadcasting Headline News forever, they have a great signal, even at night. They do insert some local news and get some of my advertising dollars, but I have to admit I never listen to the station unless there's some national tragedy starting... I've never even heard my own commercials on the station. Pensacola also has the heritage news/talker WCOA and the newly upgraded 25kw daytimer WEBY, along with two or three Christian talk stations, a 100kw FM sports talk station and a clear signal from WWL New Orleans. Since we're market #123, we don't really have that much breaking news, so I can't imagine anyway a local news station could survive, but we've got the typical news/talk formats covered very well in this town.

 

[MN Maniac]

I'm surprised ADX didn't keep 1620 Classic Country. Seems to me, that would be a good combo with Cat Country 98.7. As Poledo mentioned, the market was already saturated with News/Talk stations.

10kW that high on the band really doesn't do as well as one might think. When I lived in Ocean Springs, I was always disappointed with the coverage of WTNI-1640. The daytime (10kW) signal does not city-grade the entire market area. At night, the 3.16mV/m falls short of downtown Gulfport.

 

[Davie123]

Before this recession, locally-oriented all-news stations were a dying breed in the U.S.
By the time this recession is over, it will be a DEAD format. It's sad, but the cost of
running these operations makes it difficult to turn a profit. This format will be one of the
many recession/depression victims in the radio world. Next to go...live jocks outside morning drive.

 

[radioboy]

Mark,

Back about 1975, Tallahassee's then-WMEN 1330 changed formats from country to All News. I
remember meeting a gentleman named Sea Stipe who had worked at some Georgia stations and
was at WMEN during the All-News stint.

1330 was (and is) a daytimer. That kind of worked against their All News format. It lasted less than a year
before going silent for about 5 months. It became Christian WCVC on Jan. 1, 1977 under new ownership.

We've had our share of news/talkers but I don't believe all news was ever tried again here.

 

[jmtillery]

How far away from city of license is the 1640 tower site? The 10kw-D signal should go pretty far, while the 1kw-N signal should be good for at least 8-10 miles city grade ground-wave. When WTIR-AM 1680 Winter Garden first went on the air in 2000, I could hear the station very clearly here in Ocala at night, some 80+ miles away. Then again, they may have been operating at full 10kw day power during the night which would explain such a clear signal as I cannot hear them at all during the evening now.

Another very good expanded band station is 1660 Naples which blasts in very clear at night. In fact, in comes in fairly well during the day in certain areas up this way, and we're well over 200 miles North of Naples. In the beginning 1660 programmed adult standards later becoming News-Talk and did a very good job. That station was later sold to a Catholic group and it is now EWTN Catholic Radio.

Polado, I agree that a market the size of Pensacola probably isn't large enough to support a full-time All News station for reasons you mentioned. There just isn't enough current news to make a full-time format. However, markets the size of Tampa, Orlando, Miami and Jacksonville should be able to support at least one full-time All News station, and I am somewhat perplexed that neither of these markets have a full-time news station. The only reason for not having one that makes any sense to me is the cost factor vs the current economy as being a reason for not taking a stab at All News.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[jmtillery]

Before this recession, locally-oriented all-news stations were a dying breed in the U.S.
By the time this recession is over, it will be a DEAD format. It's sad, but the cost of
running these operations makes it difficult to turn a profit. This format will be one of the
many recession/depression victims in the radio world. Next to go...live jocks outside morning drive.

There's no doubt that more slashes with the corporate ax will take place before it's over. I've often wondered if All News was, indeed, a dying format even in the best economic situation.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[jmtillery]

Mark,

Back about 1975, Tallahassee's then-WMEN 1330 changed formats from country to All News. I
remember meeting a gentleman named Sea Stipe who had worked at some Georgia stations and
was at WMEN during the All-News stint.

1330 was (and is) a daytimer. That kind of worked against their All News format. It lasted less than a year
before going silent for about 5 months. It became Christian WCVC on Jan. 1, 1977 under new ownership.

We've had our share of news/talkers but I don't believe all news was ever tried again here.

Alan,

Was WMEN locally oriented in that its content was locally produced or did they subscribe to a news network service, assuming long form news networks existed in 1975. Did WMEN have a national top of the hour news network such as CBS, NBC, ABC, MUTUAL, Etc.? Which one?

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[radioboy]

Mark,

I believe they used TOH News from ABC Information Network plus some ABC/I Sports.
It was heavily local at that point, as had been their previous country format. I don't remember them
using any long-form news networks for the most part. Of course, as junior in high school, news
wasn't in my interests. I had been listening to their country format previously, though.

I ended up working at 1330 later on after it added contemporary Christian music in the early 80s.
Spent a total of 13 years there, in 3 separate stints. Then, it was rip and read from the teletype until
the station added the USA Radio Network in 1987.

 

[Poledo]

Doesn't the Tampa Bay area have a 24/7 cable news channel? Wouldn't it be inexpensive to put the audio from that channel on one of the AM stations? It would be an interesting experiment.

 

[jmtillery]

Doesn't the Tampa Bay area have a 24/7 cable news channel? Wouldn't it be inexpensive to put the audio from that channel on one of the AM stations? It would be an interesting experiment.

Poledo,

Tampa Bay does have a 24/7 All News cable channel - Bay News 9, which did re-broadcast its audio on the former WSUN-AM 620 under the call letters WSAA. This would have been maybe ten years ago, however, that arrangement didn't last very long for reasons I don't know since AM 620 was eventually sold to Clear Channel. WDAE sports programming was moved from 1250 to the 620 frequency. I don't know if the reason for terminating the Bay News 9 arrangment was because of poor ratings and ad revenue on radio or if it had more to do with Clear Channel wanting the 620 facilities for its Sports Animal programming.

You are correct, howver, in that re-broadcasting Bay News 9 audio on one of the Tampa Bay radio stations would be an inexpensive way of providing 24/7 local live news on radio without the expense normally associated with an All News radio operation.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[redneckriviera]

Most folks--including most broadcasters--fall for the Urban Legend that doing all-news radio is Just Too Expensive.

A friend "up north" runs a very successful small-market all-news operation with about a half-dozen reporter/anchors--three or four full-timers and a batch of part-timers. They do a locally-originated version of what you'd hear on a WCBS/WINS/WTOP/KYW/WBBM from 6AM to 7PM with a base of local news supplemented--just like the big guys--with network stuff. They use CBS Radio and CNN + Wall Street Journal, Accuweather and the like. Then from 7PM to 6AM they use Fox Sports and/or major league baseball + high school, college & NFL football, high school & college basketball.

The overwhelming amount of listening to any radio station in any market in any format is 6A to 7P, so they fulfill their objective of being an "all-news" radio station for the vast majority of their listeners. And they don't spend a fortune to do it.

 

[jmtillery]

Redneckriviera,

I've often wondered if such a station would survive in a smaller market.

Expense wise, I think it largely depends on how sophisticated a news operation becomes that determines the real cost factor. There's no doubt that there are ways of providing local and regional All News and do it well without "breaking the bank" in the process.

About ten years ago we had a small All News operation in Gainesville, just up the road from Ocala. The station was/is a daytimer with 5,000 watts daytime and 51 watts nigh-time authorization. The news staff consisted of virtually all University of Florida Mass Communications students who gathered, reported and anchored the news programming in exchange for college credit, so there was virtually no expense in terms of salaries. For national news, the station broadcast CNN Radio News with state news actualities and sound bites provided by the Florida Radio Network.

It wasn't a bad All News station, and like you said, this station was for all purporses a daytimer, providing its core All News programming between 6AM and 7PM.

Unfortunately the owner decided to "blow-up" the All News operation in favor is affiliating with Radio Disney.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]