Are there two different school of thoughts regarding dance?

[Morpheux]

I ask this question because I think this might be a reason why some people see the half glass full or half empty regarding dance in the US. If you see the glass half full then this was the year that dance turn the corner so to speak in the mainstream. Lady Gaga,Pitbull,David Guetta,Jay Sean,Flo Rida. All had great years on CHR. And I wouldn't classify them as strictly dance artists (except for David Guetta) but their major hits were dance beat laced tracks. I happen to think that they are your "bridge" tracks that will make it friendlier for a Kim Sozzi or Annagrace to break into chr radio. Cascada sort of proof this theory already last year.


So what's your take on it? Half full or half empty?

 

[Mid West Clubber]

We are definately better off, but we can do better, in the early to mid 90s dance dominated the charts, and todays rhythmic hip hop stations were in essence dance stations at the time. I dont really consider most of those to be dance artists,, but rather Pop Crossover acts with dance beats.. i wanna see the day that Armin van Burren and tiesto are played on CHR radio outside of mixshows... we have to do more cause the pop dance is a start, and stations like b-96 Chcago is cool THAT they play some dance now, and KTU is slightly better now too,,, but look at all the pure dance outlets we lost in 09....

 

[Morpheux]

Timbaland is a great producer but he lost credit when he stole the sounds of "the way I are"

Midwestclubber,your last sentence grab my attention. We did lose out on pure dance stations but i'll be honest I never really could get into these stations. And I consider myself a dance fan. These stattions were caught in a stereotypical dance groove. To me dance is much more than diva anthems and 4x4 dance songs all over dance stations.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I agree, but we need some trance and house on the radio,, ot diva dance, but more than just hip hop with a brekbeat over it,, like Akon does.

 

[Dancerev889]

The glass is way over half full right now. Trying to figure who a dance artist and who isnt, is not the right approach. Lady Gaga is straight out of the clubs. What makes Kim Sozzi or Cascada a dance artist? Just because they are on a dance label? The major labels are embracing dance music now. More and more majors are having dance promoters in house than they did two years ago. Every artist wants to make it to pop status.

 

[nd2023]

On one hand, I love that there were so many dance crossovers on CHR, like Pitbull, Lady Gaga, David Guetta, Kaci Battaglia, and Cascada. And I am glad that there are more stations around the country playing what we call pure dance like Kim Sozzi, Ameerah, and Annagrace, even if they're relegated to mixshows.

But on the other hand, we lost 2 dance stations in 2009. Part of the reason why dance songs made it on rotation on other New York City stations was because of that wonderful Channel Six.

My thoughts can be summarized by my opinion of stations like Party FM and Mix 106.5 HD2. I'm all for a Party format on a full signal rhythmic CHR which mixes in a few top dance tracks and pop remixes with today's hip hop. But I don't like those formats on dial positions where they will be doomed for failure due to competition with better signals and a pure hip hop format, for example 87.7's signal is the weakest in New York, and Baltimore's Party Station is an HD2. If I'm going to go through the trouble of seeking out a station in a hard-to-find place, it better be a format that isn't available elsewhere, or else most of the market, won't bother remembering where to find it or tell others about it.

It would be great if all rhythmic CHRs sounded like Party FM or Mix 106.5 HD2, and if pure dance stations were available on the radio (initially as HD2, LPFM, or 87.7, then later on full signals as people got accustomed to the sound). If a dance station (or even a Party station) is there, people will listen and there will be more fans of dance music who would have never liked dance otherwise.

 

[CHRles]

This will likely be a big year for Dance friendly radio in Canada, ie more stations with the Z-103.5 Toronto sound.
The new Hot 107 Edmonton has three Tiesto tracks in rotation, and is also playing songs like "One Love" by David Guetta, and "About A Girl" by the Sugababes.
95.3 Virgin Radio Vancouver, which was once a very Dance friendly CHR in the early to mid 90s as Z-95.3, has also been stepping up the amount of Dance in rotation.

 

[Wildstyle K]

These stattions were caught in a stereotypical dance groove. To me dance is much more than diva anthems and 4x4 dance songs all over dance stations.

Ah, um..... well....... I um.... well he stole my words, but I couldn't just quote it and say nothing at all!

 

[Wildstyle K]

Well, as far as Timbaland stealing "push it", I think "the way I are" is more original than it is sampling. He took elements, but pretty much made it his very own sound and style. I believe there are many more artists and producers out there sampling that we really think, but we just don't realize or recognize half of it. I'm sure many melodic and vocal arrangement ideas of many of the most original sounding current hits stemmed from previous hits and releases they've heard elsewhere.

By the way, I'm very impressed by the recognition Cascada is "suddenly" receiving with her latest single, although it has really been around in top 40 formats for a while. Seems like the build up of success for "evacuate the dancefloor" unfolded in a nice way. Slow, but steady. It helped give the record more life, and as far as here in Phx, two additional stations have finally decided to recently pick it up. Maybe a few more people should consider and jump on that style of "just dance" type sound. I could only wish Pitbull's "shut it down" was just as successful.

As far as hip hop, I'm not really hearing that much hip hop on the radio anymore (outside of urban radio). I'm hearing a lot of urban pop hits that consist of more singing and melodic sounds with hip hop beats. And with the limited amount of hip hop still being played, it's mostly male singers. Actually, unless you resort to using classic hip hop hits, I'd say the hardest female rapper out in the mainstream right now is KESHA (If you choose not to include Fergie.

Maybe you still receive more attention from folks if you create or release a hip hop record, but it seems these days that dance beats and the electronic style is doing slightly better when it comes to hit radio popularity these days. I also doubt that "everyone" choosing to create or use a beat between 70-90 bpm these days in hip hop is helping the hip hop scene make a come back or rise up to be where it once was. As a matter of fact, I believe it will end up having more of a reverse effect if everything continues to "sound alike at a slow pace".

AND,

If a dance station (or even a Party station) is there, people will listen and there will be more fans of dance music who would have never liked dance otherwise.

That cannot be denied, plain and simple, so there's no point in even discussing it further.

I can't believe I still haven't even gotten around to the question at hand; "Are there two different school of thoughts regarding dance?" Well, maybe later I might get into that.

 

[Morpheux]

I mentioned the wrong song. This is what I was referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q


I don't have a problem with sampling but straight lifting from another artist is something else.

I think one major battle has been won already and most people don't even realize it. The BPM's of most songs on the radio have increase (even in hip hop).

And Ke$ha a hard female rapper?? You'll have to explain that one lol.

 

[Morpheux]

These stattions were caught in a stereotypical dance groove. To me dance is much more than diva anthems and 4x4 dance songs all over dance stations.

Ah, um..... well....... I um.... well he stole my words, but I couldn't just quote it and say nothing at all!

If that's the case,purely coincidental. But it's not too uncommon of a thought around dance circles.Especially here in the FL area where break beats and other harder hitting sounds are preferred.

 

[JohnParker]

By the way, I'm very impressed by the recognition Cascada is "suddenly" receiving with her latest single, although it has really been around in top 40 formats for a while. Seems like the build up of success for "evacuate the dancefloor" unfolded in a nice way. Slow, but steady. It helped give the record more life

And just to show you that you can't please everyone, if you head over to the Robbins message board all's that people are doing over there is complaining that Cascada didn't receive any "promotion". As if they even know what that means.

jp

 

[TonySantiago]

Actually, there are three schools.....the "core", the "casual" and the "ignorant".

The core fan are basically the people in here . These are the fans that are loyal to the music, is "close to the vest" in terms of following the music and are the most creative in terms of finding the various "avenues" of media that caters to the genres. We want the stronger, different, edgy sounds than what is on mainstream. To that, we are also the most argumentative because there are certain aspects of the music that we know could "work" out there, but being limited in terms of "mainstream" media play makes it tough for such music to get out to the masses, to which it gets frustrating at times. These fans listen to stations such as C-89.5, Z 88.9, Radio Danz, Electric FM, Fusion, B-91.

The casual fan is the "sometime" listener of dance music. They like dance music but want familiarity as opposed to being "challenged". They will support the artists that get the stronger radio airplay, outside of the few dance venues and will dance at clubs to those artists and MAY clear the floor to something unfamiliar. They will like a Cascada, Pitbull, Kim Sozzi and think of Ke$ha as a dance artist. They also favor the "recurrent" dance tracks moreso than the core crowd. They are also the "majority". These fans listen to stations such as 'KTU, My 106.1, 93.9MIA or CHR stations such as 92.3 Now, Z-100, KIIS, etc.

The "ignorant" are those that don't know dance music as much, think of it as "techno" and are quick to bash dance fans for whatever reason (gay, ectascy tripper, fist pumpin "Jersey Shore" type) and refuse to acknowledge more to the music than the "stereotypes". It's more about them not knowing and quick to bash those that support versus trying to understand.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I used to get made of for listening to techno as they called it,, these same people are now casual dance fans,, they arent supporting the clubs, buying dance records, but they will sing along to a a cascada, kim Sozzi, or Lady gaga record,,, Fact is, casual listeners see it as part of pop music now,, And thats what we need to get people to support artists like PVD AVB,, ECT...

 

[Morpheux]

Actually, there are three schools.....the "core", the "casual" and the "ignorant".

The core fan are basically the people in here . These are the fans that are loyal to the music, is "close to the vest" in terms of following the music and are the most creative in terms of finding the various "avenues" of media that caters to the genres. We want the stronger, different, edgy sounds than what is on mainstream. To that, we are also the most argumentative because there are certain aspects of the music that we know could "work" out there, but being limited in terms of "mainstream" media play makes it tough for such music to get out to the masses, to which it gets frustrating at times. These fans listen to stations such as C-89.5, Z 88.9, Radio Danz, Electric FM, Fusion, B-91.

The casual fan is the "sometime" listener of dance music. They like dance music but want familiarity as opposed to being "challenged". They will support the artists that get the stronger radio airplay, outside of the few dance venues and will dance at clubs to those artists and MAY clear the floor to something unfamiliar. They will like a Cascada, Pitbull, Kim Sozzi and think of Ke$ha as a dance artist. They also favor the "recurrent" dance tracks moreso than the core crowd. They are also the "majority". These fans listen to stations such as 'KTU, My 106.1, 93.9MIA or CHR stations such as 92.3 Now, Z-100, KIIS, etc.

The "ignorant" are those that don't know dance music as much, think of it as "techno" and are quick to bash dance fans for whatever reason (gay, ectascy tripper, fist pumpin "Jersey Shore" type) and refuse to acknowledge more to the music than the "stereotypes". It's more about them not knowing and quick to bash those that support versus trying to understand.

That's a great observation regarding the fans. My observation is more on the so called dance music community and the fans are a portion of the whole pie. The other portion, are the ones that have the impact to greatly influence such as the Club DJ's, online dance stations,terrestrial dance friendly stations,Labels etc. I just sense that there is a rift between the emerging sound that's popping all over chr and what the norm dance sound of the 90's and 00's were. Actually,sense is a an understatement. It's grossly obvious that there is resistance to accept the sounds of Pitbull,Akon,Flo Rida,LMFAO,Lady Gaga and all those I mentioned previously. I hear these artists and I feel like I'm hearing uptempo electronic sounds with good hooks and I'm good. Now,that doesn't mean I don't want to hear a Kim Sozzi or Tiesto. On the other hand someone hears the same artist and in their eyes it's the same as playing Drake or Snoop Dogg. Thus why all the I hate party threads and now it looks like BPM will get its fair share lol.

 

[Dancerev889]

I used to get made of for listening to techno as they called it,, these same people are now casual dance fans,, they arent supporting the clubs, buying dance records, but they will sing along to a a cascada, kim Sozzi, or Lady gaga record,,, Fact is, casual listeners see it as part of pop music now,, And thats what we need to get people to support artists like PVD AVB,, ECT...

The casual fan are the people buying the records and going to the clubs. The big mainstream clubs are full of these type of fans. I find more of the hardcore fans are illegally downloading music because they want it first before its available.

 

[instigator]

There is nothing more annoying to me personally as a club DJ than when people call all dance "techno"...it's used like an insult or something. I can't tell you guys how many times I have been labled.."He plays nothing but techno"..In reality I play a lot of vocal trance and progressivre house, pop remixes and some freestyle(works really well here in Philly). I guess my point to people who do not like dance it will always be "techno"

 

[d21ofnj]

Those are the group of people who we class as the "ignorant" class. Where stereotypes of the mainstream overrule the education of dance.

 

[Wildstyle K]

I hate when people say "techno". To me it's almost like a racial slur. While everyone else is out rioting, picketing, and going crazy making a ridiculous fuss over certain words regarding race or discrimination, I'm indoors watching Everybody Love's Raymond. But as soon as I hear the word "techno", That's when I come out! Cars are overturned, toilet papers in trees, and fires may be started.

 

[TonySantiago]

That's a great observation regarding the fans. My observation is more on the so called dance music community and the fans are a portion of the whole pie. The other portion, are the ones that have the impact to greatly influence such as the Club DJ's, online dance stations,terrestrial dance friendly stations,Labels etc. I just sense that there is a rift between the emerging sound that's popping all over chr and what the norm dance sound of the 90's and 00's were. Actually,sense is a an understatement. It's grossly obvious that there is resistance to accept the sounds of Pitbull,Akon,Flo Rida,LMFAO,Lady Gaga and all those I mentioned previously. I hear these artists and I feel like I'm hearing uptempo electronic sounds with good hooks and I'm good. Now,that doesn't mean I don't want to hear a Kim Sozzi or Tiesto. On the other hand someone hears the same artist and in their eyes it's the same as playing Drake or Snoop Dogg. Thus why all the I hate party threads and now it looks like BPM will get its fair share lol.

I knew where you were getting at with your original post. I just wanted to take another aspect into this, as part of that "pie".

Though, one thing HAS to be addressed regarding core fans that I take strong criticism towards. I wholeheartedly believe that the core base WANTS to purchase the music out there. Not to be the "first" but because the music is that good. And you do have many places out there outside of iTunes to download such tracks legally (Beatport, Masterbeat, to name a few). But if someone wants a track, but the music isn't "available" (note the quotes) then WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? Do you blame the fan for wanting such a track but the record labels are making it "illegal" because they haven't OR MAY NEVER want to release it domestically? I've written a blog a while back ago regarding this. Things are MUCH different now than it was 20 years ago. Whereas it was somewhat tough to land an import track then, now the "imports" (once again the quotes because thanks to the Internet, you have a world market), are all over. Yet if it was something dang good in Great Britain, a person couldn't get it on the US iTunes because it is NOT for domestic release.

There is something inherently wrong with that and quite honestly if dance music is going to make some big waves somehow....WE NEED EUROPE! Having Tiesto, Armin Van Buuren, Paul Van Dyk, David Guetta and other world DJ's hitting our shores is a good thing but more has to be done. And perhaps more of these European labels need to get "domesticated" here, like Hed Kandi.