I've received my Ariane Sequel last week and spent hours listening and testing all the settings but I must say that I'm... disapointed. What I expected is to have a perfect leveler in front of my Omnia 6 (broadband AGC removed). The Sequel is the first audio processor following the studio console, but as is it's impossible to protect the Omnia's input correctly. It's like there was nothing. I know that Ariane Sequel is very transparent - and I purshased it for that reason - BUT I expected having at minimum the same leveling control than a Compellor or Prisms: it's not. In Matrix or Stereo mode, with fast releases or not, with the peak limiter from minimum to maximum... Any advice ?
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Ariane Sequel leveling ?
- Thread starter stha
- Start date
email [email protected] He can help you.i'm not sure you if you need to completely defeat the o6 acg or just adjust the agc way down.Sounds like you are getting some interaction between the 2 units.
When the leveling will be more stable, sure there will be some work to do on the o6 AGC (but I'd really like to defeat the broadband AGC). Actually, if my input level is -10dB at the the Sequel input, output is -10dB. if the input is +10dB the output is +10dB. Sure, the Ariane can add or remove 1-2 dB but after more than a minute and without any audible leveling effect. I must say that I like the clean sound texture of the unit, but finally, what is the interest to have an expensive leveler like this if you can under/overdrive the Omnia too easily ? Too, it's also very difficult for STL protection...
are you using it for STL protection? David will be happy to assist you.Where are you located? is the 06 showing about 10-15 db gain reduction, AGC?if you overdrive it,it won't sound too good.sounds like a setup issue.did you read the owners manual that came with it?
The Sequel in Combination with Other Processing:
The Ariane Sequel will usually be employed as the initial processor in conjunction with other processing. By using the Sequel
as fi rst in line for the ‘heavy lifting’ of average level control, the following processors will not need to use as much AGC control,
if any, as they otherwise might. Using the Sequel’s default settings, output levels will be very consistent while maintaining
the feel and fl avor of the original audio. We recommend you start with one of our default settings and make most of your
subjective adjustments with your other processing.
• For those looking for an ultimate clean sound, of course the Ariane Sequel can be set conservatively (start with the “Purity”
presets), with the subsequent processor doing light peak limiting and nothing more.
• If you want absolute aggressiveness, you will probably discover that the Sequel alone does not get you there. We designed
the Sequel to create an extremely consistent yet lifelike signal for any processor(s) that follow it. However, if you want a really,
truly beefy sound, then by all means set the Sequel controls to the fastest Release, the narrowest IDR, and a low Gate
threshold, and proceed from there. Even at its most extreme settings the Sequel will still maintain a semblance of reality.
• In any event, you should realize that by running the following processing extremely fast and deep, you will most likely obliterate
any sense of reality the Ariane was seeking to preserve. The performance of the Ariane Sequel can be best appreciated
by reducing the depth (“drive”) and lengthening release times of Gain Reduction in the following processor’s initial AGC.
Even with these reduced settings, the next processor can do its job better and more predictably than before you added the
Sequel. This is because the Sequel will give the next box a more consistent input level, always smack dab in the middle of its
“Sweet Spot.” You may fi nd that the amount of any peak limiting and clipping may be also reduced. Many otherwise excellent
processors rely upon those fi nal control stages to take care of any less than perfect level control in their earlier stages.
• We believe that the vast majority of Ariane users are probably looking for a very competitive sound that is simultaneously
not constrained or obviously compressed. Here is where the fi nesse of the Ariane processing algorithm will let you shine! By
using the Ariane in one of the ‘Default’ settings, with possibly a few tweaks, you are in the best position to use your following
processors to their fullest capabilities to modulate loudly, but openly. Adjusting those units for less emphasis on wide-range
level control (the Ariane specialty) and more emphasis on peak consistency will create a signature
The Ariane Sequel will usually be employed as the initial processor in conjunction with other processing. By using the Sequel
as fi rst in line for the ‘heavy lifting’ of average level control, the following processors will not need to use as much AGC control,
if any, as they otherwise might. Using the Sequel’s default settings, output levels will be very consistent while maintaining
the feel and fl avor of the original audio. We recommend you start with one of our default settings and make most of your
subjective adjustments with your other processing.
• For those looking for an ultimate clean sound, of course the Ariane Sequel can be set conservatively (start with the “Purity”
presets), with the subsequent processor doing light peak limiting and nothing more.
• If you want absolute aggressiveness, you will probably discover that the Sequel alone does not get you there. We designed
the Sequel to create an extremely consistent yet lifelike signal for any processor(s) that follow it. However, if you want a really,
truly beefy sound, then by all means set the Sequel controls to the fastest Release, the narrowest IDR, and a low Gate
threshold, and proceed from there. Even at its most extreme settings the Sequel will still maintain a semblance of reality.
• In any event, you should realize that by running the following processing extremely fast and deep, you will most likely obliterate
any sense of reality the Ariane was seeking to preserve. The performance of the Ariane Sequel can be best appreciated
by reducing the depth (“drive”) and lengthening release times of Gain Reduction in the following processor’s initial AGC.
Even with these reduced settings, the next processor can do its job better and more predictably than before you added the
Sequel. This is because the Sequel will give the next box a more consistent input level, always smack dab in the middle of its
“Sweet Spot.” You may fi nd that the amount of any peak limiting and clipping may be also reduced. Many otherwise excellent
processors rely upon those fi nal control stages to take care of any less than perfect level control in their earlier stages.
• We believe that the vast majority of Ariane users are probably looking for a very competitive sound that is simultaneously
not constrained or obviously compressed. Here is where the fi nesse of the Ariane processing algorithm will let you shine! By
using the Ariane in one of the ‘Default’ settings, with possibly a few tweaks, you are in the best position to use your following
processors to their fullest capabilities to modulate loudly, but openly. Adjusting those units for less emphasis on wide-range
level control (the Ariane specialty) and more emphasis on peak consistency will create a signature
stha said:
It sounds like you may have the bypass button on
There may be something wrong with the Ariane unit. I have eleven (counting...) Ariane sequels in the field with no complaints, only happy results. I would recommned starting over by using the manual. One issue I've found with the Omnia 6 when the WB AGC is defeated is the loss of gain platform into the multi-band AGC's. From another post of mine: You need to use windows hyper terminal from a laptop. I use the modem with the Omnia 6, but you can also use hyper terminal from the serial port. There is no need to use the WB AGC if you are using an Ariane. But if you disable the AGC, the gain structure is lost into the five band AGC. When you raise the threshold to its highest point, the gain structure remains. Be prepared to back down the AGC drive, as it will still function as part of the gain structure. The attack, release and other things will not have any effect. I'm running an average of -5 to -10 db on the five band AGC. It sounds great. Here is the procedure:
Connect with hyper-terminal
Most likely, hyper-terminal will display scrolling meter info. You will need to turn off the scrolling meter info.
Type exactly the following
login mufof (enter)
meterinfo off (enter)
echo on (enter)
para 666 1 (enter)
The AGC threshold should now be so high the AGC will go to zero gain reduction.
To return to the factory default:
para 666 20 (enter)
This returns the WB AGC to the factory default. If you change the AGC by para commands remember to save the preset by using the Omnia jog wheel "save preset". This will save the AGC setting for that preset. The para AGC does not affect other presets, at least on my seven Omnia 6's. You will need to use the para 666 on each preset you use. Good luck.
I certainly hope you contacted the vendor before posting here for help. I'd think David would be best equipped to get you there.
There's no reason why you should be getting inconsistent levels from the Ariane, something is wrong.
From my experience, it was trial and error when first using an Ariane with an Omnia...mostly all error, in the beginning. But that's when you know you're making progress, right?
Good advice on tweaking AGC in the the O6 using hyperterminal. I had no idea.
There's no reason why you should be getting inconsistent levels from the Ariane, something is wrong.
From my experience, it was trial and error when first using an Ariane with an Omnia...mostly all error, in the beginning. But that's when you know you're making progress, right?
Good advice on tweaking AGC in the the O6 using hyperterminal. I had no idea.
Actually i believe Goran Tomas had posted the hyper-terminal info,but i could not find it in my favorites.I think the issue is incorrect set up .use that command for the preset you are using ;like fm-eng said.i think you can defeat the agc in the 8500 while using an ariane.You can defeat it(the wideband) as well in the 6,but i don't think that a good idea,just slow it way down.
fm-engineer said:
I preferred to raise the AGC threshold rather than use the AGC bypass in the Omnia.6, because that way you don't lose any gain. There should be no problems in doing so, however I would suggest you consult Omnia to see if maybe they have a better way of dealing with the problem.
But you don't need to use HyperTerminal to issue those commands. You can easily do it from the Omnia Remote Application (with either serial or IP connection) by using the trigger scripts.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
stha said:
Sorry that I'm late to the game here. I've been on the road, and not had a chance to check the boards until today. Thanks to all for offering help to stha in my absence.
The Ariane has a 4:1 compression ratio, outside the AGC's 'IDR' window. If you are NOT seeing this amount of compression (IOW, 20dB input variation should result in 5 dB output variation, plus IDR), then something is not right.
As Goran said, first be sure you have the unit on line. The online (green) versus bypass (red) switch colors are the *opposite* of the Compellor, but they are clearly labeled so I doubt that is your problem.
Take a look at the AGC gain metering. If you are running the unit aggressively, you should see lots of change on the meters. This change should be reflected in the output level being more defined and, possibly, a slightly different spectral balance, with regards to input. If the input and outputs sound the same even when you can witness gain variations of 15 to 20 dB on the front panel, then something is clearly wrong!
By "aggressively" I mean a fast release (<2), low IDR (<2) number, and low Gate threshold (-30 to -35). Even with these figures, while the output should not sound 'processed' there should be a considerable difference in levels when comparing 'online' versus 'bypass,' particularly with programing that has noticeable dynamic level variation. Long song fades are one good test.
Of course, by design, that material which is hyper-compressed won't be processed much, if at all, even with the most aggressive settings. Every parameter in the Ariane was designed to be, worst case, at the very edge of audibility. So even when working properly, sometimes the only way to be sure it's doing anything is to bypass it. Then (depending upon program material) it can be *quite* obvious!
If you are still not satisfied, it's always possible a problem has developed with your particular box. We'll be happy to check it out for you, and straighten out any hiccups. Please call 212 222-0330 to get return authorization.
BTW, I don't mind people posting their problems here. We don't get them very often, and the solution, once resolved and posted online here, may help others later on.
Kind Regards,
David
I am still amazed on how much difference the unit makes on the audio quality of stuff coming out of the new studio I built for some guys that have a radio show they run on an AM station. They used to do it at the station and now run it from their business via ISDN. It sounds considerably better from the new studio so the only thing I can figure is the Ariane MUST be improveing the audio before the station's processing gets ahold of it.
Thank you to everybody for your suggestions. After calibrating again the levels and testing some other settings, I've got better results. I'm far from the Matrix Purity factory preset that was my starting point and my ideal sound texture but the Omnia's input is now correctly protected when using medium/fast IDR & releases(4) that are very good compromises between a stable and natural sound. David, congratulations for your product and thank you for your patience...
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