Around The Treasure Coast

[davideduardo]

John, I for one appreciate your posts on Treasure Coast radio; I have had some kidney issues for the last 2 months; culminating in surgery last Friday; so even posting a ”like” has been difficult as times! Not to mention the fact I don‘t live in or near the Treasure Coast. ( I’m about midway between Orlando and Tampa) So please continue; I have yet to see a boring post by you!

I agree on all points and find John's posts both interesting and very well thought out and written, often with a perspective I have not encountered before.

Keep the posts coming. It's fun to read about Florida markets, five or six of which I have worked or consulted in.

 

[davideduardo]

If any area has an identification problem in feeling left out, it probably is Okeechobee County. I know very little about that place to be honest.

Okeechobee County is neither part of the Fort Pierce radio metro nor of the West Palm Beach one. It is thus not going to receive much agency business for the three little local stations. And it is predominantly agricultural with nearly 40% of the population being Black or Hispanic. That entire "South of Orlando" area is mostly agrarian, with all the good radio signals long ago moved to the coastal markets that are bigger and wealthier. And the coastal AMs are all directional out over the Gulf of the Atlantic, so few have decent 24/7 signals in those counties.

Looking at all of that area would make an interesting analysis just as looking at stations in the Big Bend area might be. Very different from the growing coastal markets, much of the Panhandle and the interior Orlando - Ocala - Gainesville zone where growth and wealth are exploding.

 

[Radio Bob]

Keep up the posts there wonderful

 

[Battenkill50]

I enjoy reading John's essays as well.
I am 35 miles north of Vero Beach in north Melbourne *another market I don't see much about....
BTW the two IHeart Media FMs up here are no longer running the HD2 channels (WFKS 95.1, WLRQ 99.3)

KTW

 

[John FL]

John, I for one appreciate your posts on Treasure Coast radio; ... I don‘t live in or near the Treasure Coast. ( I’m about midway between Orlando and Tampa) So please continue; I have yet to see a boring post by you!

Now time for my last mild pain killer.

DRT

Thanks for your kind words. Hope you get better soon. Trust me, I know what it's like to have health issues.

I agree on all points and find John's posts both interesting and very well thought out and written, often with a perspective I have not encountered before.

Keep the posts coming. It's fun to read about Florida markets, five or six of which I have worked or consulted in.

Thank you, sir! I listen very intently to what comes over the radio speakers. It's something I've done for a very long time. It's not that hard to figure who is putting in the effort and who is just going through the motions.

I'm also someone who looks at logic. Various moves, changes etc. have to make sense. There's aspects about radio that are quite illogical to me. For a business that is extremely concerned about profitability, we see mistakes repeated. This is especially true in the rendering of a playlist. Some can take that same playlist and do something special with it. Others do a mediocre job and the listener isn't impressed. The odds for success, as I've said many times, comes when there is a top down vested interest in winning. We see it in stations that year after year and decade after decade remain in the top tier. It takes a heck of a lot of work, efforts, and skills to stay there.

The other near and dear motivation of mine is format flips. How wonderful it is to experience a well thought out launch. Why anyone would be sloppy during that most critical time is another illogical radio situation. Plenty of them and again, poor execution makes so little sense. I've seen stations bleed revenue and plunge in ratings due to new competition. Still, just putting another format on without adequate thought and prep bewilders me.

Most of the extreme situations I've ever experienced was in Jacksonville. There were some highly top-notch efforts such as "96.9 The Eagle"'s launch. There were those who came along afterwards to challenge but for all sorts of reasons, they were unable to make the grade.

In fact, another illogical concept is over-flipping to new formats. There was a company in Jax, bankrupt and defunct and no wonder, that changed formats so frequently that to this day I have no idea how many there were. Illogical to not give a format a chance. The ironic thing is this company had some pretty decent formats, obviously buying programing from some service. They did classic hits and it lasted 2 months. Again, just irrational and illogical.

Then there are the radio execs and specifically those in the GM/OM capacity. There is a fine line between making radio decisions that are prudent and those that are done mainly to advance the career of the incumbent and perhaps to sweeten their bonus. I've seen many cases where something just doesn't pass the smell test. Market manipulation happens and it's not always ratings that determine a formats' survival or place in the cluster. Understand, there are exceptions. A decades-specific format, for example, is not easy to grow new, younger listeners into the fold. Being proactive is not exactly being manipulative. Hopefully I'm clear here.

So now you and others know what motivates me. It's the very best that I do discuss at times and the very worst where lessons learned don't seem to exist.

Keep up the posts there wonderful

I will keep trying as long as people keep reading! Thank you!

I enjoy reading John's essays as well.
I am 35 miles north of Vero Beach in north Melbourne *another market I don't see much about....
BTW the two IHeart Media FMs up here are no longer running the HD2 channels (WFKS 95.1, WLRQ 99.3)

KTW

I've long lived in big markets. After living in the Treasure Coast for a while, I've taken a very strong liking to small town radio. David Eduardo mentioned a possible topic regarding the farm areas of Florida and radio there. I once flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Gainesville. Given this plane only held a few passengers, we obviously were able to fly low. Once out of Lauderdale, we followed "Alligator Alley" and then headed north. I was amazed at how much rural areas there are in Florida.

One other time, after the plane ride, I took the back-roads from Orlando back to South Florida. It's a whole other world through there. If it weren't for an occasional Palm tree, it looked like some other place. What stations people listen to in the very rural areas may be of interest. The big markets get all the attention.

But there's probably many gems out there that never get the recognition they deserve, I'm happy to see there's interest in the Florida radio markets. In my view, Florida is an interesting radio state.

 

[John FL]

I'd like to revisit this subject based on some recent observations. Over the last several weeks, I have noticed a more pronounced 90s presence at The Treasure Coast's Greatest Hits, WQOL. While that in itself is not news as virtually all classic hits formats offer 90s titles in the mix, I'd like to put on a typical listener hat to comment.

It's probably not unusual for long time listeners of a station/format to recall what used to be. Despite not having lived on The Treasure Coast until 4+ years ago, WQOL was a station I pulled in during my many trips up and down the state. WQOL was to me a station that was smartly run for a long time. They were also like your favorite pair of jeans or slippers. It was just that comfy feeling knowing that you'd get what you expected. As I often mentioned, Orlando's 105.9 Sunny-FM, was rarely consistent from one trip to another. Sometimes I liked what I heard, sometimes I didn't.

In a number of posts regarding Philadelphia's WOGL, posters have commented over the years that typical listeners still regard the station as Oldies 98, a brand that hasn't been in place since around 2008. I had a co-worker/friend who, well into the 21st century, referred to Jacksonville's WAPE as "Power 95" which was a brand used in the 80s and 90s. It's the 'power' of effective branding that makes long-lasting impressions on listeners.

Perhaps that's where I am with WQOL. Every once in a while, a song will be featured that's reminiscent of how the station and format once sounded. It helps differentiate the station featuring songs that have proven so popular that even those who weren't even born when the song was new still are familiar with it just the same.

For the smaller markets such as The Treasure Coast that are not locally programed as in the case of WQOL, we can certainly see that the "tried and true" songs are the ones that survive and ultimately become a part of regular rotations. It's the biggest artists and the biggest hits.

Perhaps most of us can agree that a WCBS-FM in NYC is a trend-setter and a format leader. That station has featured 90s music for a good number of years now. As that station advance musically, certain songs have found themselves on a WQOL. Others have not. It's also interesting to note that 90s songs that may have tested well enough, say 10 years ago, are now out of contention.

Jon Secada's early 90s hit, for example, "Just Another Day" earned a heavy rotation at one time at WCBS-FM. I don't believe that song is even played anymore. Incidentally, when I was involved in marketing projects in Jacksonville, we tested that song in various focus groups and it turned out to be one of the highest rated 90s songs per female panelists. Probably not something you'd expect for Jacksonville. But the song was a hit and it obviously made positive impressions.

Whitney Houston's version of "I'm Every Woman" from The Bodyguard was another heavy rotated song at one time on WCBS-FM. I'll add one more, "King of Wishful Thinking" from the movie "Pretty Woman" by Go West. The only other station I heard that song in what I would describe as a power rotation was on the former "Coast" AC format in Miami, WFLC. That station for a long time offered 80s themed weekends. In my view, it was the very best 80s sounding mix of music anywhere. Yes, it was definitely a Miami sound but even many of them have vanished even in Miami.

There's a couple of takeaways for all of this. One in smaller markets, such as The Treasure Coast, there is a very careful and deliberate playlist add of the songs that demonstrate the longest staying power. Many of these have been in the rock genre and many are by artists who have sufficient hits to have a "best of" album.

As stations and formats make music tweaks/enhancements to attract younger listeners, favorite songs obviously change. I don't believe WQOL features Whitney Houston tunes. Yet they power play Madonna and Michael Jackson. There's reasons for this although I have trouble seeing the logic in it.

If I would venture a guess or two, it may be Madonna and Michael Jackson sound okay next to a rock selection. Maybe Premium Choice programing doesn't want to get too "AC-ish" as a sister station could very well be an AC in some of the markets where there is Classic Hits.

As long as there is Radio Discussions, there will probably be programing questions and suggestions. West Palm's Classic Hits, WEAT has an AC lean and Whitney Houston plays on there. But, in my view a song like "I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me)" is a great song for a variety-based classic hits station but not everyone agrees with that.

 

[ScottBurns]

I'd like to revisit this subject based on some recent observations. Over the last several weeks, I have noticed a more pronounced 90s presence at The Treasure Coast's Greatest Hits, WQOL. While that in itself is not news as virtually all classic hits formats offer 90s titles in the mix, I'd like to put on a typical listener hat to comment.

It's probably not unusual for long time listeners of a station/format to recall what used to be. Despite not having lived on The Treasure Coast until 4+ years ago, WQOL was a station I pulled in during my many trips up and down the state. WQOL was to me a station that was smartly run for a long time. They were also like your favorite pair of jeans or slippers. It was just that comfy feeling knowing that you'd get what you expected. As I often mentioned, Orlando's 105.9 Sunny-FM, was rarely consistent from one trip to another. Sometimes I liked what I heard, sometimes I didn't.

In a number of posts regarding Philadelphia's WOGL, posters have commented over the years that typical listeners still regard the station as Oldies 98, a brand that hasn't been in place since around 2008. I had a co-worker/friend who, well into the 21st century, referred to Jacksonville's WAPE as "Power 95" which was a brand used in the 80s and 90s. It's the 'power' of effective branding that makes long-lasting impressions on listeners.

Perhaps that's where I am with WQOL. Every once in a while, a song will be featured that's reminiscent of how the station and format once sounded. It helps differentiate the station featuring songs that have proven so popular that even those who weren't even born when the song was new still are familiar with it just the same.

For the smaller markets such as The Treasure Coast that are not locally programed as in the case of WQOL, we can certainly see that the "tried and true" songs are the ones that survive and ultimately become a part of regular rotations. It's the biggest artists and the biggest hits.

Perhaps most of us can agree that a WCBS-FM in NYC is a trend-setter and a format leader. That station has featured 90s music for a good number of years now. As that station advance musically, certain songs have found themselves on a WQOL. Others have not. It's also interesting to note that 90s songs that may have tested well enough, say 10 years ago, are now out of contention.

Jon Secada's early 90s hit, for example, "Just Another Day" earned a heavy rotation at one time at WCBS-FM. I don't believe that song is even played anymore. Incidentally, when I was involved in marketing projects in Jacksonville, we tested that song in various focus groups and it turned out to be one of the highest rated 90s songs per female panelists. Probably not something you'd expect for Jacksonville. But the song was a hit and it obviously made positive impressions.

Whitney Houston's version of "I'm Every Woman" from The Bodyguard was another heavy rotated song at one time on WCBS-FM. I'll add one more, "King of Wishful Thinking" from the movie "Pretty Woman" by Go West. The only other station I heard that song in what I would describe as a power rotation was on the former "Coast" AC format in Miami, WFLC. That station for a long time offered 80s themed weekends. In my view, it was the very best 80s sounding mix of music anywhere. Yes, it was definitely a Miami sound but even many of them have vanished even in Miami.

There's a couple of takeaways for all of this. One in smaller markets, such as The Treasure Coast, there is a very careful and deliberate playlist add of the songs that demonstrate the longest staying power. Many of these have been in the rock genre and many are by artists who have sufficient hits to have a "best of" album.

As stations and formats make music tweaks/enhancements to attract younger listeners, favorite songs obviously change. I don't believe WQOL features Whitney Houston tunes. Yet they power play Madonna and Michael Jackson. There's reasons for this although I have trouble seeing the logic in it.

If I would venture a guess or two, it may be Madonna and Michael Jackson sound okay next to a rock selection. Maybe Premium Choice programing doesn't want to get too "AC-ish" as a sister station could very well be an AC in some of the markets where there is Classic Hits.

As long as there is Radio Discussions, there will probably be programing questions and suggestions. West Palm's Classic Hits, WEAT has an AC lean and Whitney Houston plays on there. But, in my view a song like "I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me)" is a great song for a variety-based classic hits station but not everyone agrees with that.

John, thanks for keeping this thread going and for an opportunity to respond. I have been quite busy and I have been traveling a lot lately, allowing me to sample more radio all over the country.

A few quick responses to your latest. WEAT here in West Palm bills itself as Classic Hits. With that said, you're right. It is the most AC-leaning Classic Hits station I have heard, especially with Whitney Houston being played. The station also bills itself - even in its liners - as playing hits from the '70s, '80s, and '90s. This is largely to differentiate the station from its sister WRMF, which plays 2000s to today. Unlike WQOL and other iHeart Classic Hits stations, WEAT does not play much from the '90s, despite its claims.

You are absolutely right about station branding having staying power. I, in fact, have a sister who lives in Philadelphia and many people there refer to WOGL as "Oldies 98" or even just "WOGL," despite the new branding. In fact, many of the station's heritage jocks over-pronounced the "o" in WOGL, even adding a bit of Mid-Atlantic twang to it. That branding still exists in the minds of many. The big difference today is that many Classic Hits stations are moving away from Pop and toward more Rock, as the research tells them that this will help the stations skew younger. Are you noticing more of a Rock lean than usual on WQOL?

Regarding the smaller markets, I am finding that many such stations are part of national playlists and not locally customizing. I am not sure if this is the case with WQOL. But in my travels, I have found that many CHRs - especially iHeart ones - are adopting national playlists. WLDI/West Palm Beach seems to be doing this. Jacksonville's Kiss seems to be doing this too. Such stations play very few re-currents. Larger market CHRs play much more variety and more re-currents. I spent some time listening to Hot 99.5/Washington recently, and their playlist is far more refreshing that Jacksonville's Kiss or WLDI.

In one of the earlier posts, you mentioned profitability and playlists. My guess is that using cookie-cutter playlists reduces costs. It eliminates the need for local MDs. Perhaps the profitability is made up in the cost savings.

You also mentioned some of the very rural Florida markets. I drive through these areas often. One station I have always enjoyed, despite a lot of satellite stuff, is WOKC/Okeechobee, which has a translator at 100.9 FM. The station does a lot locally. I also have enjoyed WAFC/Clewiston, which has expanded with translators from Belle Glade to LaBelle. I always listen on my drives from West Palm to Fort Myers.

 

[davideduardo]

In one of the earlier posts, you mentioned profitability and playlists. My guess is that using cookie-cutter playlists reduces costs. It eliminates the need for local MDs. Perhaps the profitability is made up in the cost savings.

At a station that does not play currents, music directors are basically an on-air person who helps with MusicMaster or Selector.

There is no such thing as a "cookie cutter" playlist. Stations base their playlists on research. If the market is smaller, they share research with several similar markets that match the station profile, the local competition and market demographics and ethnicity.

What does happen is that nearly everywhere today the same songs work in the same formats. The only differences have to do with market composition, and group programmers know how to help their local PDs with research interpretation.

Gold based formats are updated once or twice a year. Research from the company's similar stations is shared if recurrents are played.

The cost of shared research is a lot less than a salary.

Only when you get to very small markets with very small groups or a local station or cluster do you find a station copying the playlist of a similar nearby station by using one of the music monitoring services. In that case, they figure the bigger station or stations know what they are doing so they emulate their successful playlist. But it is still a researched playlist... just being copied in another market that can't afford research. Worse is to guess at the playlist, which is where you get stations programmed to the PD or the GM's personal taste, which is 99.9% of the time way off base.

 

[ScottBurns]

At a station that does not play currents, music directors are basically an on-air person who helps with MusicMaster or Selector.

There is no such thing as a "cookie cutter" playlist. Stations base their playlists on research. If the market is smaller, they share research with several similar markets that match the station profile, the local competition and market demographics and ethnicity.

What does happen is that nearly everywhere today the same songs work in the same formats. The only differences have to do with market composition, and group programmers know how to help their local PDs with research interpretation.

Gold based formats are updated once or twice a year. Research from the company's similar stations is shared if recurrents are played.

The cost of shared research is a lot less than a salary.

Only when you get to very small markets with very small groups or a local station or cluster do you find a station copying the playlist of a similar nearby station by using one of the music monitoring services. In that case, they figure the bigger station or stations know what they are doing so they emulate their successful playlist. But it is still a researched playlist... just being copied in another market that can't afford research. Worse is to guess at the playlist, which is where you get stations programmed to the PD or the GM's personal taste, which is 99.9% of the time way off base.

I was referring mostly to iHeart stations that use Premium Choice playlists. You mentioned differing ethnicities of different markets. I’d posit that Jacksonville and West Palm have very different ethnic make ups. Yet the iHeart CHRs in these markets borrow heavily from Premium Choice. Maybe CHR isn’t a good example, as you point out, however.

 

[John FL]

John, thanks for keeping this thread going and for an opportunity to respond. I have been quite busy and I have been traveling a lot lately, allowing me to sample more radio all over the country.

A few quick responses to your latest. WEAT here in West Palm bills itself as Classic Hits. With that said, you're right. It is the most AC-leaning Classic Hits station I have heard, especially with Whitney Houston being played. The station also bills itself - even in its liners - as playing hits from the '70s, '80s, and '90s. This is largely to differentiate the station from its sister WRMF, which plays 2000s to today. Unlike WQOL and other iHeart Classic Hits stations, WEAT does not play much from the '90s, despite its claims.

You are absolutely right about station branding having staying power. I, in fact, have a sister who lives in Philadelphia and many people there refer to WOGL as "Oldies 98" or even just "WOGL," despite the new branding. In fact, many of the station's heritage jocks over-pronounced the "o" in WOGL, even adding a bit of Mid-Atlantic twang to it. That branding still exists in the minds of many. The big difference today is that many Classic Hits stations are moving away from Pop and toward more Rock, as the research tells them that this will help the stations skew younger. Are you noticing more of a Rock lean than usual on WQOL?

Regarding the smaller markets, I am finding that many such stations are part of national playlists and not locally customizing. I am not sure if this is the case with WQOL. But in my travels, I have found that many CHRs - especially iHeart ones - are adopting national playlists. WLDI/West Palm Beach seems to be doing this. Jacksonville's Kiss seems to be doing this too. Such stations play very few re-currents. Larger market CHRs play much more variety and more re-currents. I spent some time listening to Hot 99.5/Washington recently, and their playlist is far more refreshing that Jacksonville's Kiss or WLDI.

In one of the earlier posts, you mentioned profitability and playlists. My guess is that using cookie-cutter playlists reduces costs. It eliminates the need for local MDs. Perhaps the profitability is made up in the cost savings.

You also mentioned some of the very rural Florida markets. I drive through these areas often. One station I have always enjoyed, despite a lot of satellite stuff, is WOKC/Okeechobee, which has a translator at 100.9 FM. The station does a lot locally. I also have enjoyed WAFC/Clewiston, which has expanded with translators from Belle Glade to LaBelle. I always listen on my drives from West Palm to Fort Myers.

Thanks Scott for your comments.

As I look at WEAT in West Palm, this is what the old Clear Channel in Jacksonville envisioned for their Classic Hits station, WJGH, back in 2010. At the time, there was only one AC station in Jacksonville. 96.9 The Eagle, although branded as Classic Hits, was never that really. They've always had 7 out of 10 toes in classic rock titles and artists.

Had CC remained committed to the format, I believe they would have been in a solid position today. Unfortunately, the GM at the time was on the record for not seeing the potential in the format. Ultimately, the demise of Classic Hits in Jacksonville allowed for the "Easy" AC brand to be born. CMG would have probably given one of its Urban formats that are currently on a translator life on a full market signal.

For what it's worth, CMG was the strategic company in Jacksonville. Clear Channel/iHeart always had issues in Jacksonville and a revolving door of management too.

As I've often said, I've seen many radio mistakes in my lifetime. But killing "Magic 107.3" was in my view a catastrophic mistake. They met their target audience goals at the end too. We've seen that sort of thing happen elsewhere. Ratings go up but the format goes away anyway.

As far as WQOL goes, it's just weird hearing certain rock artists and titles on the station. I realize rock has a prominent spin on many of today's classic hits stations. However, WQOL long had a good balance of music. I don't think anyone would think of them as a rocker like a WGTR. It was Motown, soul & rock 'n roll. Beatles intensive too but certainly their sound was solid and unique to the market.

I understand why these changes happen. Perhaps you'd agree that with syndicated programing comes risks. Every market has certain uniqueness and The Treasure Coast is no exception. While we can speculate all, I suspect that if WQOL was programmed locally and had a dedicated PD, we'd hear a lot of the core playlist for the brand. But, perhaps the rotations would be done in such a way that the overall sound of the station would sound a little more like WEAT and not have a noticeable rock bent.

I've looked at demographics for The Treasure Coast. More and more Hispanics are making the T.C. home. I have to wonder for those in the upper end of 25-54, what they think of WQOL and if they even bother listening. Their opinions about the station I would consider more strongly than my own.

 

[davideduardo]

I've looked at demographics for The Treasure Coast. More and more Hispanics are making the T.C. home. I have to wonder for those in the upper end of 25-54, what they think of WQOL and if they even bother listening. Their opinions about the station I would consider more strongly than my own.

If we look at the West Palm Beach market (A single county) it is now estimated by Nielsen's Fall 2021 update to be 23% Hispanic.

The Fort Pierce - Stuart -Vero Beach market is three counties, Indian River, Martin and St Lucie and is 16.4% Hispanic.

In most markets where there is a strong influx of recent immigrants, about 50% of Hispanic listening is to stations in Spanish. In markets that are not destinations for new immigrants, the percentage of Spanish radio users is lower. San Antonio, for example, only has about 15% of all Hispanics indicating that they are "Spanish dominant" so the rest are more assimilated and tend to listen to English language radio.

Further, in locations like Orlando where most migrants are middle-class and professional class Puerto Ricans, the new residents arrive with listening preferences they had in their prior home. In the case of Puerto Ricans, a large majority has traditionally listened to stations programming all or significant percentages of music in English so they will not become listeners in Orlando to stations playing all Spanish language music.

This same phenomenon is seen with economic refugees from Venezuela as well as among Colombians who arrived during the worst of the guerrilla conflict years and, now, Peruvians fleeing the disastrous new and inexperienced Marxist government. In those countries, middle and upper income people tend to listen to stations that play all or much music in English.

 

[ScottBurns]

Thanks Scott for your comments.

As I look at WEAT in West Palm, this is what the old Clear Channel in Jacksonville envisioned for their Classic Hits station, WJGH, back in 2010. At the time, there was only one AC station in Jacksonville. 96.9 The Eagle, although branded as Classic Hits, was never that really. They've always had 7 out of 10 toes in classic rock titles and artists.

Had CC remained committed to the format, I believe they would have been in a solid position today. Unfortunately, the GM at the time was on the record for not seeing the potential in the format. Ultimately, the demise of Classic Hits in Jacksonville allowed for the "Easy" AC brand to be born. CMG would have probably given one of its Urban formats that are currently on a translator life on a full market signal.

For what it's worth, CMG was the strategic company in Jacksonville. Clear Channel/iHeart always had issues in Jacksonville and a revolving door of management too.

As I've often said, I've seen many radio mistakes in my lifetime. But killing "Magic 107.3" was in my view a catastrophic mistake. They met their target audience goals at the end too. We've seen that sort of thing happen elsewhere. Ratings go up but the format goes away anyway.

As far as WQOL goes, it's just weird hearing certain rock artists and titles on the station. I realize rock has a prominent spin on many of today's classic hits stations. However, WQOL long had a good balance of music. I don't think anyone would think of them as a rocker like a WGTR. It was Motown, soul & rock 'n roll. Beatles intensive too but certainly their sound was solid and unique to the market.

I understand why these changes happen. Perhaps you'd agree that with syndicated programing comes risks. Every market has certain uniqueness and The Treasure Coast is no exception. While we can speculate all, I suspect that if WQOL was programmed locally and had a dedicated PD, we'd hear a lot of the core playlist for the brand. But, perhaps the rotations would be done in such a way that the overall sound of the station would sound a little more like WEAT and not have a noticeable rock bent.

I've looked at demographics for The Treasure Coast. More and more Hispanics are making the T.C. home. I have to wonder for those in the upper end of 25-54, what they think of WQOL and if they even bother listening. Their opinions about the station I would consider more strongly than my own.

Unfortunately, and this is subjective, there are fewer Classic Hits stations that sound like WEAT. WOGL/Philadelphia is a great example. It has moved to a Rock lean. I have not heard WCBS-FM in a long time, but I hear that it, too, has moved in the same direction. Classic Hits has evolved into Classic Rock Lite in most markets. We understand why it's done; the younger listeners, who are more desirable to advertisers, prefer Rock to Pop.

If a real Classic Hits station existed in Jacksonville - for what it's worth, I consider WJGL to be Classic Rock - my guess is that such a station would not sound like WEAT. It would probably sound like WJGL with just a little bit more Pop, or perhaps some '90s Rock.
I need to verify, but I think WQOL and WSRZ mostly use Premium Choice programming. That would mean that neither station is programmed locally, at least for the most part. You are right; syndicated programming comes with risks. It ignores niches and unique characteristics of individual markets. My guess is that markets like the TC and Sarasota are never going to get much attention from iHeart. Even if the stations were programmed better, there's such a limited amount of money to be made that it's not worth their time and investment. That is sad, and it's where I speculate that a local owner might invest more time and money.

 

[John FL]

Per David Eduardo's reply a couple posts ago, I find demographic information very interesting to say the least. There was a couple jobs I had in my career where I needed to analyze and interpret data like that.

All I will add is that someone who was exceptional in his role advised me to not just number-crunch but to rely on my eyes and my ears too. This advice proved to invaluable to me. When I got out of the office and drove around neighborhoods, then walked about too, or visited a business, I gained tremendous insight.

In the relatively short time, I've lived on The Treasure Coast, I've seen all kinds of change. Traffic has increased and it's easy to conclude more and more people are moving in. One of my most valuable resources is real estate agents. I've made friends with a good number of them over the years. They can tell you things about people moving and out of a community you can't find anywhere else.

Of course, my ears have rarely failed me when I listen to radio. What comes over the speakers can tell many a story. Finally, I sense that demographic information has a lag time. Florida just happens to be a place where there's a lot of people movement and it's been that way for quite some time.

Unfortunately, and this is subjective, there are fewer Classic Hits stations that sound like WEAT. WOGL/Philadelphia is a great example. It has moved to a Rock lean. I have not heard WCBS-FM in a long time, but I hear that it, too, has moved in the same direction. Classic Hits has evolved into Classic Rock Lite in most markets. We understand why it's done; the younger listeners, who are more desirable to advertisers, prefer Rock to Pop.

If a real Classic Hits station existed in Jacksonville - for what it's worth, I consider WJGL to be Classic Rock - my guess is that such a station would not sound like WEAT. It would probably sound like WJGL with just a little bit more Pop, or perhaps some '90s Rock.
I need to verify, but I think WQOL and WSRZ mostly use Premium Choice programming. That would mean that neither station is programmed locally, at least for the most part. You are right; syndicated programming comes with risks. It ignores niches and unique characteristics of individual markets. My guess is that markets like the TC and Sarasota are never going to get much attention from iHeart. Even if the stations were programmed better, there's such a limited amount of money to be made that it's not worth their time and investment. That is sad, and it's where I speculate that a local owner might invest more time and money.

I suspect that there are meetings where local management can express their views on the direction of Premium Choice programing such as what we find on WQOL. As I've listened, I've also noted some inconsistencies in the positioning of songs. Sometimes, it's back-to-back rockers, others times it's more the stuff of what one would find on a variety-based classic hits station. The latter I believe would serve The Treasure Coast and perhaps other similar older-skewing markets better.

I'm not sure when "Don't Speak" by No Doubt was added to WQOL's playlist. But, with the songs substantial airplay,
there's at least familiarity. While classified as an Alternative Rock song, it's easy on the ears and I think it positions itself well next to a lot of what WQOL plays.

Today while I was out and about there were three songs in a row that I found interesting enough to mention. It was Peter Cetera's "Glory of Love," then Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" followed by a surprise entry, "Running Up That Hill" by Kate Bush. Now, I realize songs that weren't big sellers when they were new doesn't play into testing. I vaguely remembered the song so I looked it up. It only reached #30 in 1985 and it appears it was Kate Bush's only Top 40 hit. (Unless she was associated with another group)

But, research also told me the song gained a resurgence in popularity May 2022 after it was incorporated into the plot of the fourth season of the Netflix series "Stranger Things." (A program I've never watched) But, it became the most streamed song on Spotify that year in the U.S. So, there you are. There must be desired demos liking the song for a classic hits format to take a chance on adding it.

Actually, I've always been an advocate of looking at music that is popular in movies as a song consideration. I posted a lot about that subject when "Guardians of the Galaxy" was a huge box office hit. The soundtrack was on par with the movie itself.

There are some good programing concepts being used at WQOL and Premium Choice utilizing multiple genres of music. I hope they don't go too top heavy in any one direction, especially harder rock.

Finally, I think we need to remember that The Treasure Coast is blessed with a Soft AC in WOSN. There was a time this was a Standards format. They evolved into a 70s/80s soft music station. It would appear they have made a name for themselves. There will come a time, 90s titles will find a home there too. If anything is certain, most of what they will air will probably not be heard anywhere else. And that's a good thing and another reason radio on The Treasure Coast is better than one would think.

 

[ScottBurns]

Per David Eduardo's reply a couple posts ago, I find demographic information very interesting to say the least. There was a couple jobs I had in my career where I needed to analyze and interpret data like that.

All I will add is that someone who was exceptional in his role advised me to not just number-crunch but to rely on my eyes and my ears too. This advice proved to invaluable to me. When I got out of the office and drove around neighborhoods, then walked about too, or visited a business, I gained tremendous insight.

In the relatively short time, I've lived on The Treasure Coast, I've seen all kinds of change. Traffic has increased and it's easy to conclude more and more people are moving in. One of my most valuable resources is real estate agents. I've made friends with a good number of them over the years. They can tell you things about people moving and out of a community you can't find anywhere else.

Of course, my ears have rarely failed me when I listen to radio. What comes over the speakers can tell many a story. Finally, I sense that demographic information has a lag time. Florida just happens to be a place where there's a lot of people movement and it's been that way for quite some time.


I suspect that there are meetings where local management can express their views on the direction of Premium Choice programing such as what we find on WQOL. As I've listened, I've also noted some inconsistencies in the positioning of songs. Sometimes, it's back-to-back rockers, others times it's more the stuff of what one would find on a variety-based classic hits station. The latter I believe would serve The Treasure Coast and perhaps other similar older-skewing markets better.

I'm not sure when "Don't Speak" by No Doubt was added to WQOL's playlist. But, with the songs substantial airplay,
there's at least familiarity. While classified as an Alternative Rock song, it's easy on the ears and I think it positions itself well next to a lot of what WQOL plays.

Today while I was out and about there were three songs in a row that I found interesting enough to mention. It was Peter Cetera's "Glory of Love," then Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" followed by a surprise entry, "Running Up That Hill" by Kate Bush. Now, I realize songs that weren't big sellers when they were new doesn't play into testing. I vaguely remembered the song so I looked it up. It only reached #30 in 1985 and it appears it was Kate Bush's only Top 40 hit. (Unless she was associated with another group)

But, research also told me the song gained a resurgence in popularity May 2022 after it was incorporated into the plot of the fourth season of the Netflix series "Stranger Things." (A program I've never watched) But, it became the most streamed song on Spotify that year in the U.S. So, there you are. There must be desired demos liking the song for a classic hits format to take a chance on adding it.

Actually, I've always been an advocate of looking at music that is popular in movies as a song consideration. I posted a lot about that subject when "Guardians of the Galaxy" was a huge box office hit. The soundtrack was on par with the movie itself.

There are some good programing concepts being used at WQOL and Premium Choice utilizing multiple genres of music. I hope they don't go too top heavy in any one direction, especially harder rock.

Finally, I think we need to remember that The Treasure Coast is blessed with a Soft AC in WOSN. There was a time this was a Standards format. They evolved into a 70s/80s soft music station. It would appear they have made a name for themselves. There will come a time, 90s titles will find a home there too. If anything is certain, most of what they will air will probably not be heard anywhere else. And that's a good thing and another reason radio on The Treasure Coast is better than one would think.

I also find the study of demographics fascinating. In terms of the TC, the problem, I think, is that there are no large cities around which the population growth is centered. Sure, Stuart, PSL, and Vero Beach are good-sized. However, these cities are dwarfed by West Palm Beach to the south and Orlando to the northwest. The Space Coast has Melbourne, but even that city is not large by Florida standards. Without a large focal point, the TC will likely keep its small-market feel. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I have observed those same inconsistencies in Premium Choice programming. I have also heard stations that use Premium Choice during certain dayparts and program locally during others. That leads to even greater inconsistency.

I completely agree about WOSN. Only Fort Myers, with WAVV, has something that approaches WOSN's uniqueness in terms of the Soft AC format.

 

[John FL]

I also find the study of demographics fascinating. In terms of the TC, the problem, I think, is that there are no large cities around which the population growth is centered. Sure, Stuart, PSL, and Vero Beach are good-sized. However, these cities are dwarfed by West Palm Beach to the south and Orlando to the northwest. The Space Coast has Melbourne, but even that city is not large by Florida standards. Without a large focal point, the TC will likely keep its small-market feel. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I have observed those same inconsistencies in Premium Choice programming. I have also heard stations that use Premium Choice during certain dayparts and program locally during others. That leads to even greater inconsistency.

I completely agree about WOSN. Only Fort Myers, with WAVV, has something that approaches WOSN's uniqueness in terms of the Soft AC format.

As I think of demographics, I also think of management. There are managers who spend too much time with their heads submerged in data and paperwork. There's a concept known as "Management by Walking Around." Now, I'm not talking micromanagement as there are issues with that from an employee perspective.

Being engaged and aware of how employees are treating customers is being proactive. It can help avoid a lot of problems in advance of seeing issues in all the paperwork. For radio, it's listening to station(s) from a listener's perspective. I have a feeling that this is done, if at all, in a haphazard fashion. Then again, local management doesn't always have control over creating a playlist and staffing their airteam as they see fit.

In the case of WQOL, Premium Choice programing tends to work because it creates a uniform sound. Another positive is morning drive and middays are hosted by known quantities on The Treasure Coast. I agree with you in that when there's local programing combined with syndicated programing and jocks provided by that service, there are dangers in developing ripples in what I call "consistency in sound."

There are lessons learned with this approach. But apparently, there are pressures and contractual agreements perhaps to utilize Premium Choice programing. Obviously, the more stations that are onboard with this, the more cost-effective and justifiable Premium Choice becomes. This is the 'modus operandi' of IHeart to large extent.

I first saw this utilized perhaps in 2011 or so when Jacksonville's Classic Hits station, WJGH offered Premium Choice programing every other weekend, at nights and overnights. It was all bizarre because the station was attempting to be like what we have in West Palm, a WEAT that's a classic hits format that leans AC. But the Premium Choice programing had a rock lean instead. It added to an overall sound that was uneven.

Listeners tend to get very uncomfortable when a station sounds different in various times of the day and even weekends. I think what we can agree on is there are decisions that are made by senior management that local management don't always agree with but they have little choice.

We also don't think much about the local talent who don't always have the easiest time with such an arrangement. The morning jock at the aforementioned WJGH went by the on-air name of "J.T." There was a weekend Premium Choice jock who went by the same name. Confusing perhaps but I thought WJGH's J.T. was far more entertaining and talented. It would be normal to be concerned that some of that performance notoriety of the other guy could rub off on you.

The bottom line is syndicated programing has its advantages but it also comes with risks.

 

[ScottBurns]

As an addendum to this conversation, I want to revisit the playlist issue. Two Miami stations are doing better in this department:
1. Hits 97.3 - this station is owned by Cox, and flipped from CHR last year to Rhythmic AC. The station is playing a good variety from the late '90s to today, spinning some songs that are not heard anywhere else.
2. 93.9 WMIA - they ditched their '90s format earlier this year. I was one of the only ones who liked that format. WMIA is back to being a Hot AC station, and it's playing a much wider variety than most iHeart Hot ACs around the country.

 

[John FL]

As an addendum to this conversation, I want to revisit the playlist issue. Two Miami stations are doing better in this department:
1. Hits 97.3 - this station is owned by Cox, and flipped from CHR last year to Rhythmic AC. The station is playing a good variety from the late '90s to today, spinning some songs that are not heard anywhere else.
2. 93.9 WMIA - they ditched their '90s format earlier this year. I was one of the only ones who liked that format. WMIA is back to being a Hot AC station, and it's playing a much wider variety than most iHeart Hot ACs around the country.

As I've often said, the playlist is the bread and butter of a radio stations. Why we see some do such a lousy job with it continues to bewilder me.

I'm pleased to see there are Miami stations putting in some effort in the playlist department per your opinion. There was a time, when I lived in Jax, I listened to a good deal of Miami radio via streaming. That's all changed. It's just the nature of who I am but I tend to listen to stations that offer music to my liking plus ones in which I respect the management.

Some time ago, I posted a string about radio ratings in every single market in Florida. In lots of markets I came across a WMIA, not format-wise but in its history of many flips. It's pretty amazing to find that there are stations that just never realize potential. Whether it's constant change of ownership, or a ne'er-do-well ratings and revenue position, it's as if some stations just don't have any luck.

In the case of WMIA, I've seen some good effort over the years. But there's such incredibly fierce and outstanding competition. Easy 93.1, (WFEZ), AC WLYF, Amor 107.5 (WAMR) and Hot 105 (WHQT) just to name a few. There's also a market that offers quite a lot of formats too. So it's been challenging for WMIA to say the least. Decade-specific formats tend to bore me after awhile. Perhaps typical listeners feel this way over time as well. So another flip doesn't surprise me. Hot AC for them sounds good on paper. Hopefully with the playlist not being typical of one found elsewhere, that may do the trick.

I've been reading some outstanding posts recently. One involved a discussion about a radio focus group in Canada. In what was reported, It's a lot of the concepts of which we both agree. In another subject, there was a discussion about small market radio where iHeart doesn't have anyone local on the air. Yes, the reasons for that was obvious regarding revenue.

The Treasure Coast is not that far away from a Top 100 and smaller market. Of course it concerns me because I can honestly say that some of the local iHeart talent is quite good in my view. Getting another syndicated VT talent as a replacement can easily be justified when looking to reduce expenses.

About a month ago, I noticed my car radio monitor had a different name (several occasions) of the station brand I was listening to. Could this have been my imagination? Perhaps the screen didn't refresh and a sponsor name was still there. Anyway, I would think if a rebranding or even flip was to occur, it would have happened by now. I'll discuss that and more in an upcoming post.

 

[ScottBurns]

Some time ago, I posted a string about radio ratings in every single market in Florida. In lots of markets I came across a WMIA, not format-wise but in its history of many flips. It's pretty amazing to find that there are stations that just never realize potential. Whether it's constant change of ownership, or a ne'er-do-well ratings and revenue position, it's as if some stations just don't have any luck.

WMIA has never stuck to an identity in the decade and a half since it flipped from Smooth Jazz. They tried to be WKTU at one point. They went all-90s. They have had several incarnations of Hot AC. I like what I hear now, especially because of the commitment to a wider playlist.

I've been reading some outstanding posts recently. One involved a discussion about a radio focus group in Canada. In what was reported, It's a lot of the concepts of which we both agree. In another subject, there was a discussion about small market radio where iHeart doesn't have anyone local on the air. Yes, the reasons for that was obvious regarding revenue.

I am getting raked over the coals on that thread about iHeart markets with no local talent!

About a month ago, I noticed my car radio monitor had a different name (several occasions) of the station brand I was listening to. Could this have been my imagination? Perhaps the screen didn't refresh and a sponsor name was still there. Anyway, I would think if a rebranding or even flip was to occur, it would have happened by now. I'll discuss that and more in an upcoming post.

My guess that this was a sponsor name. Sponsors do come up on RDS threads...

 

[John FL]

I am getting raked over the coals on that thread about iHeart markets with no local talent!

My guess that this was a sponsor name. Sponsors do come up on RDS threads...

I read further into the string and I see what you mean. The bottom line is forums such as R.D. tend to attract some alpha male types. As is often the case, certain subjects attract many posters who feel the need to add their two cents, and with that comes a lot of saying the same thing.

I'm of the same thought process as you. I could look at a market such as the Treasure Coast and believe radio would take a hit if iHeart no longer had any local jocks in the market. It wouldn't be the same. I suppose we can only hope that the T.C. grows sufficiently enough to keep revenue at a level that can support some local presence.

While I don't want to repeat myself, I could look at midday host Heath West on iHeart's Classic Hits, WQOL. Now here's a guy who I believe does an outstanding job. I've heard the syndicated Premium Choice jock who hosts the same daypart elsewhere. In my view, Heath is better. I consider him an asset to the station. He also hosts PM drive for another 5 hour shift on sister country WAVE 92.7.

Besides creative playlists, I'm also a fan of those who develop powerful brands. The station that I thought was heading for rebranding was in fact WQOL. My car monitor, on several occasions, said 103.7 The Beach. Now, that was a month ago. There is a Classic Hits "Beach" brand in S.W. Florida. What would be the need of this? From all I can tell, WQOL is a top tier station. And while I can't see specific money demos, I tend to think WQOL's slow and methodical approach in shedding its image as an oldies format won't justify rebranding.

In your mention of Miami radio, there was a time I was quite the active listener. There are those I respected a lot but they're gone and so am I. Again, without repeating myself. I can't say enough about people such as Rob Sidney and Gary Williams who oversaw AC's WLYF and WFEZ respectfully. A shame, in my view, they are both gone. While ratings continue to indicate success, we have to remember these two did all the heavy lifting building the stations into ratings juggernauts.

A station in Miami that did require rebranding was the old "Magic 102.7." (WMXJ) When my dad took ill about 7 years ago, I stayed in S. Florida for several months. One day I heard there was a station promotion nearby where the stations' longest talent and MD, Mindy Lang, was doing a remote. I just had to meet her and I did. I got an extra bonus that day.

The late Stuart Elliott, who had a long and distinguished career in S. Florida radio, 96X etc., was there. We wound up corresponding with each other quite often. He had lots of stories to tell too. He explained that the Magic branding was like "box office poison." In other words, no matter how much the station tried to shutter its image of being "your father's oldies station," they just couldn't.

Because I was so close to that station and the people on the air, this was something I didn't recognize early on. The bottom line is they certainly were afforded the time to make necessary changes etc. For what it's worth, I heard a little bit of the station after the change but have never listened again. No loss to them as I'm a part of a demo no one wants. Still, I miss the station. But the reality is radio responds to market changes. The Miami radio I once loved with an incredible passion no longer exists because it's not good business.

So many greats have been a part of radio in S. Florida. Perhaps naive, but I often hope a Gary Williams or Rob Sidney and others can find an opportunity on the T.C. After a while, it's not about the money but about doing what you love. Anyway, big fish in small markets do happen on occasion.

 

[ScottBurns]

I read further into the string and I see what you mean. The bottom line is forums such as R.D. tend to attract some alpha male types. As is often the case, certain subjects attract many posters who feel the need to add their two cents, and with that comes a lot of saying the same thing.

Another great reply, John. Thank you.

I'm of the same thought process as you. I could look at a market such as the Treasure Coast and believe radio would take a hit if iHeart no longer had any local jocks in the market. It wouldn't be the same. I suppose we can only hope that the T.C. grows sufficiently enough to keep revenue at a level that can support some local presence.

For better or worse, I just don't see the Treasure Coast growing much more, especially relative to West Palm Beach or even Melbourne. The problem is that its population centers aren't clustered around one city. There's Stuart, PSL, Vero, and others. All are relatively small cities.

With that said, I am happy that there are some local personalities on the TC. But iHeart has gutted West Palm's cluster and I fear that the even-smaller TC could be next. At West Palm's iHeart CHR, WLDI, there are only two local jocks - and both are part of the morning show (one is the PD). The Gater and Kool have been gutted as well. I still get sad when I think about what happened to longtime afternoon driver Andy Preston on the Gater. He passed from a heart attack in the parking lot of a restaurant just after getting laid off...after 27 years on the job.

Moving ahead, I fear that the most for which we can hope from iHeart Treasure Coast is syndicated mornings and Premium Choice jocks.

While I don't want to repeat myself, I could look at midday host Heath West on iHeart's Classic Hits, WQOL. Now here's a guy who I believe does an outstanding job. I've heard the syndicated Premium Choice jock who hosts the same daypart elsewhere. In my view, Heath is better. I consider him an asset to the station. He also hosts PM drive for another 5 hour shift on sister country WAVE 92.7.

I completely agree. He's worked at the cluster for a long time and he does great work.

Besides creative playlists, I'm also a fan of those who develop powerful brands. The station that I thought was heading for rebranding was in fact WQOL. My car monitor, on several occasions, said 103.7 The Beach. Now, that was a month ago. There is a Classic Hits "Beach" brand in S.W. Florida. What would be the need of this? From all I can tell, WQOL is a top tier station. And while I can't see specific money demos, I tend to think WQOL's slow and methodical approach in shedding its image as an oldies format won't justify rebranding.

I can see that happening. The Fort Myers station that you mentioned has also been branded "the River." But as you indicated, with WQOL, I don't see the need to fix it. And there is a somewhat nearby "Beach" station on 98.5 in Melbourne.

In your mention of Miami radio, there was a time I was quite the active listener. There are those I respected a lot but they're gone and so am I. Again, without repeating myself. I can't say enough about people such as Rob Sidney and Gary Williams who oversaw AC's WLYF and WFEZ respectfully. A shame, in my view, they are both gone. While ratings continue to indicate success, we have to remember these two did all the heavy lifting building the stations into ratings juggernauts.

A station in Miami that did require rebranding was the old "Magic 102.7." (WMXJ) When my dad took ill about 7 years ago, I stayed in S. Florida for several months. One day I heard there was a station promotion nearby where the stations' longest talent and MD, Mindy Lang, was doing a remote. I just had to meet her and I did. I got an extra bonus that day.

The late Stuart Elliott, who had a long and distinguished career in S. Florida radio, 96X etc., was there. We wound up corresponding with each other quite often. He had lots of stories to tell too. He explained that the Magic branding was like "box office poison." In other words, no matter how much the station tried to shutter its image of being "your father's oldies station," they just couldn't.

Because I was so close to that station and the people on the air, this was something I didn't recognize early on. The bottom line is they certainly were afforded the time to make necessary changes etc. For what it's worth, I heard a little bit of the station after the change but have never listened again. No loss to them as I'm a part of a demo no one wants. Still, I miss the station. But the reality is radio responds to market changes. The Miami radio I once loved with an incredible passion no longer exists because it's not good business.

So many greats have been a part of radio in S. Florida. Perhaps naive, but I often hope a Gary Williams or Rob Sidney and others can find an opportunity on the T.C. After a while, it's not about the money but about doing what you love. Anyway, big fish in small markets do happen on occasion.

The re-branding away from Oldies is still happening in other markets. WOGL/Philadelphia just rebranded without changing the music all that much. I hear that KOOL/Phoenix might be doing something similar if they have not done it already.

And speaking of the Miami market, I really miss Miami's talk radio tradition. Miami had unique local talent. He was controversial, but there's no one I enjoyed listening to more than Neil Rogers. There's no one like him on the dial today - no one with a fraction of his talent.