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ARRRGGHHH!!!! Too much variety sucks!!!

> Jesus Christ, are you never happy? Why don't you change
> your name to "Radio Depression".

I tend to agree. Sometimes you make good points, Realist, but lately (especially with this thread) you seem to be arguing just to hear yourself argue.
 
Completely different listening experiences. If you're listening to live performance, it has your total attention. Most people don't sit there and look at the radio and give it their full attention.

In fact, five seconds after a song starts on radio, most people can't tell you what preceded it.





> Spoken like someone who doesn't know diddly about music. Any
> musician will tell you that how well any song goes over when
> you play it for an audience is what mood the audience is in.
> When you're performing music for an audience, and you play a
> song that puts them into a particular mood, then how much
> they will like or dislike the next song is extremely
> dependent on how they reacted to the previous song.
>
> Musicians understand that even when they play song after
> song at a club date or concert, all of the songs flow
> together into a unified performance. Musicians understand
> the concept of the medley, and how important it is to not
> only play the songs well, it's also important to sequence
> them properly.
>
 
variety

None of that artsy-fartsy holier-than-thou-about-music B.S. matters. Listening to a live performance is completely and totally different than hearing music on the radio (for the audience, anyway).

Radio is very simple: either they DO like the songs or they don't. Radio (and even ex-radio) people tend to over-analyze this sort of thing.

>
> Spoken like someone who doesn't know diddly about music. Any
> musician will tell you that how well any song goes over when
> you play it for an audience is what mood the audience is in.
> When you're performing music for an audience, and you play a
> song that puts them into a particular mood, then how much
> they will like or dislike the next song is extremely
> dependent on how they reacted to the previous song.
>
> Musicians understand that even when they play song after
> song at a club date or concert, all of the songs flow
> together into a unified performance. Musicians understand
> the concept of the medley, and how important it is to not
> only play the songs well, it's also important to sequence
> them properly.
>
> BTW, when Jack, Bob and the other one-name formats have put
> most of you disc jockeys out of work, how do you think you
> guys will cope with having to make career changes?
>
 
> > That's not a complaint about variety--that's a complaint
> > about music selection and placement. Look, if 96.9's
> still
> > being programmed locally, even if a Bob, and they had
> music
> > problems before, what makes you think it changed?
>
> If you want to nitpick about what the correct "professional"
> radio term is for bad song selection, go ahead.
>
> > And that last one you call "worst"--was probably featured
> > B-to-B at some point in 1973/74 on CHR radio then.
>
> Actually, in 1973/74, I believe it was still called "Top
> 40". I don't think t was renamed CHR until later in the
> decade. But regardless, it was that kind of kludgy,
> hodge-podge programming on the top 40 AM stations that
> prompted listeners like me to abandon bubble-gum radio and
> switch over to listening to AOR.
>
> In any case, though I'm not sure what this move will have on
> the folks at Clear Channel or Infinity, I am sure that the
> people selling Sirius and XM services in Pittsburgh were
> breaking out the champagne yesterday. If this trend
> continues, there will only be half a dozen "professionals"
> working in local radio.
>
> Keep telling yourselves that Jack, Bob, Fred, and all the
> other named formats are the greatest thing to hit
> broadcasting. You'll all be looking to somehow leverage your
> radio experience into new careers soon enough.
>
Must agree Radio Realist. The initial repsonse to Bob may be a little spike in ratings, but that's it. Bob, Jack, Fred, whatever, they are all there to superserve a cheap company that only fires its air talent, and thinks it can get away with fullfilling the audience. Until one sees the trends over time on what they did.

Remember, this is Pittsburgh. Sometimes what others do in other markets just won't fly here.

All the reaction that I heard from clients, family, and friends are negative. They are not happy with what happened to their classic rock alternative.

Mr. Music
 
sucks

Johnny- you have to remember you're trying to make sense to a frustrated, ex- radio person who thinks they now know better. Everything (they didn't think of) sucks- but them, of course.

These are the folks who cry and whine about "cookie-cutter" and "corporate" radio, but when something comes out that's not afraid to break the rules, they always revert back to "this is what's always been done" or "expert programmers".
They bash Consultants when it's convenient, but when they need to make themselves look good, they bring "expert programmers" (consultant-types) into the fray.

They like it both ways (so to speak).


>
> It's been in town for just over ONE DAY! Already you're sounding defeat?
>
> You must have one hell of a diary system.
>
> Get back to us when the demo books come out in a year.
>
 
SOMETHING sucks

Oh, yes- let's take the word of a bitter, frustrated, "I was never good enough to cut it in REAL radio, so I spend all my time bashing those who did".

Where has it been announced that Jack/Bob/Mike/etc. will continue to be a jockless format? We only get that from paranoid, cynical ex-radio people.

Lighten up, Francis.


>
> I was referring more to the snide attitude displayed by a
> few of the people in here that anyone who isn't currently
> active in the radio industry is a "wannabe" or some other
> sort of loser. I particularly wonder how Dr. Detroit will
> cope with having to make a career change when his station
> switches to a jockless format. Will he still be such a jerk
> towards those who moved from radio into other related fields
> when he's on the other side of the fence?
>
 
Re: SOMETHING sucks

> Oh, yes- let's take the word of a bitter, frustrated, "I was
> never good enough to cut it in REAL radio, so I spend all my
> time bashing those who did".

I can't wait until the station YOU work for switches to Jack or Bob or Fred, and your ass is on the unemployment line.
 
well,

You mean, like what must have happened to you? And, how do you know I'm NOT Programming one of these stations?

Here's the "real" story: our best and brightest talent will ALWAYS have jobs in radio. They're motivated and valuable to their clusters and they put their time and energy into continually growing. They don't sit around, paranoid that the "next great thing" will be what finaly ends their miserable radio career. See, only the lightweights in radio make statements like yours.

Problem is- you can't handle the truth. And, it drives you NUTS that you have to discuss this great industry we're in from THE OUTSIDE. You throw things up but nothing seems to stick. You're like the Frank Burns of radio- you carried on the facade for awhile, but it never really worked out and now all you can do is criticize. I almost feel bad for you, except your uninformed arrogance makes that pretty difficult.


> I can't wait until the station YOU work for switches to Jack
> or Bob or Fred, and your ass is on the unemployment line.
>
> > Oh, yes- let's take the word of a bitter, frustrated, "I
> was never good enough to cut it in REAL radio, so I spend all
> my time bashing those who did".
 
> OK, I know that those of you who work in radio see things
> differently from those of us who actually listen to radio.
> We listeners have a different perspective. But what were the
> people who program "Bob" thinking when they put these pairs
> of songs back-to-back?
>
> .38 Special's "Rockin' Into the Night" and Chic's "Le
> Freak"?
>
> Guns 'n' Roses "Sweet Child of Mine" and Madonna's "Lucky
> Star"?
>
> The Eagles "Already Gone" and Kool and the Gang's "Get Down
> On It"?
>
> Or one of the worst of all:
>
> Brownsville Station's "Smokin' in the Boy's Room" and Rufus'
> "Tell Me Something Good"????
>
> It sounds like they downloaded all of the old songs on all
> of the various MP3 webites that were in the top half of the
> "most downloaded" lists, fed them into an iPod, and hit
> "random play".
>
> In the words of Baby Bob from the fast food commercials,
> some things are just wrong.
>


They need some billboards.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
That would be stupid!

> They need some billboards.
>

No they don't. That would let potential listeners know that the station has a new format, and maybe get them to tune in and sample "Bob". Why would any station want to get more listeners?

They should hire pyschics to simply project the urge for musical variety into everyones' minds.
 
Re: well,

> You mean, like what must have happened to you? And, how do
> you know I'm NOT Programming one of these stations?

If you are, then I look forward to the day when you've chased enough listeners over to satelite radio, and the FCC decides that there aren't enough people listening to broadcast radio, and they re-allocate the bandwidth to some other purpose.
 
> > Jesus Christ, are you never happy? Why don't you change
> > your name to "Radio Depression".
>
> I tend to agree. Sometimes you make good points, Realist,
> but lately (especially with this thread) you seem to be
> arguing just to hear yourself argue.
>
Radio Realist is correct. The Jack, Billy Bob, whoever format is designed to lower the cost of operating a radio station until it's decided what the radio station WILL do later. It's not a serious format.
 
> Spoken like someone who doesn't know diddly about music. Any
> musician will tell you that how well any song goes over when
> you play it for an audience is what mood the audience is in.
> When you're performing music for an audience, and you play a
> song that puts them into a particular mood, then how much
> they will like or dislike the next song is extremely
> dependent on how they reacted to the previous song.
>
> Musicians understand that even when they play song after
> song at a club date or concert, all of the songs flow
> together into a unified performance. Musicians understand
> the concept of the medley, and how important it is to not
> only play the songs well, it's also important to sequence
> them properly.
>

Ohhhhhh..... so that's why, when I go to several concerts in several locations by the same band, they always play the same songs in the exact same order????

The way you write it, every time a band performs, they decide what they play on the spur of the moment, based on the mood of the audience. As someone who has attended concerts by many bands in many different genres up and down the eastern part of the US, I can tell you that is not the case. Most bands have ONE playlist and every show follows that exact same playlist. In many cases, these playlists aren't just the same from city to city; they are the same from city to city from year to year. Granted, these playlists are very well thought-out, and the songs do flow well, and I do agree with you on that point, but to suggest that a band adapt their playlist for the mood of every single audience they play for is a bit asinine.

I've read so many remarks on here about how Bob sounds like someone loaded up their I-Pod or CD player and just hit "shuffle". Well, usually, that is what the average music listener does. The average joe with a 1000 song MP3 player is not going to program it to play those 1000 songs in a particular order because they "flow" better that way. No. He's going to hit "shuffle" and if he perhaps is not in the mood for the next song that comes up, he'll hit "shuffle" again until the next song comes up that he's not in the mood to hear.

That is how Bob works.... Most people like music from several different genres. Myself, as an example, I like country most, followed very closely by southern rock and classic rock. But I also like oldies, some dance music, some AC, and even some rap, reggae, classical, and jazz thrown in, too.... Granted, Bob doesn't have quite THAT wide of a playlist, but this format plays songs that appeal to a wide variety of musical tastes. We in the radio business may think that 2 particular songs should never, under absolutely any circumstances segue. We even have very good reasons for that. The average listener isn't really going to care which song follows which -- to them, it's just like hitting "shuffle" on their I-Pod. It has nothing at all to do with whether a listener knows diddly or jack (sorry for the bad pun)about music at all. All they care is that they like the song that is currently playing and they like the song that comes next. If they don't, that little button that changes the station is not very far out of reach.
 
> > Spoken like someone who doesn't know diddly about music.
> Any
> > musician will tell you that how well any song goes over
> when
> > you play it for an audience is what mood the audience is
> in.
> > When you're performing music for an audience, and you play
> a
> > song that puts them into a particular mood, then how much
> > they will like or dislike the next song is extremely
> > dependent on how they reacted to the previous song.
> >
> > Musicians understand that even when they play song after
> > song at a club date or concert, all of the songs flow
> > together into a unified performance. Musicians understand
> > the concept of the medley, and how important it is to not
> > only play the songs well, it's also important to sequence
> > them properly.
> >
>
> Ohhhhhh..... so that's why, when I go to several concerts
> in several locations by the same band, they always play the
> same songs in the exact same order????

No, the bands play the songs in a carefully selected order because they know, based on their experience and expertise, what sequence of their songs will work best at moving and inspiring their audiences. The reaction from the audiences confirms their good judgement in ordering the songs in the sequence they have chosen.

But the way that a band reaches the point where they are doing a big concert in a different city every night is by starting out playing small, local clubs. Sometimes the bands are together through the whole process, sometimes the members each started out in different bands before coming together. But in any case, they learn how songs will affect audiences so that by the time they've reached a certain level on the professional ladder, they have acquired the sufficient understanding of how audiences will react to be able to put their songs in the best possible sequence.

> The way you write it, every time a band performs, they
> decide what they play on the spur of the moment, based on
> the mood of the audience. As someone who has attended
> concerts by many bands in many different genres up and down
> the eastern part of the US, I can tell you that is not the
> case. Most bands have ONE playlist and every show follows
> that exact same playlist. In many cases, these playlists
> aren't just the same from city to city; they are the same
> from city to city from year to year. Granted, these
> playlists are very well thought-out, and the songs do flow
> well, and I do agree with you on that point, but to suggest
> that a band adapt their playlist for the mood of every
> single audience they play for is a bit asinine.
>
> I've read so many remarks on here about how Bob sounds like
> someone loaded up their I-Pod or CD player and just hit
> "shuffle". Well, usually, that is what the average music
> listener does. The average joe with a 1000 song MP3 player
> is not going to program it to play those 1000 songs in a
> particular order because they "flow" better that way. No.
> He's going to hit "shuffle" and if he perhaps is not in the
> mood for the next song that comes up, he'll hit "shuffle"
> again until the next song comes up that he's not in the mood
> to hear.
>
> That is how Bob works.... Most people like music from
> several different genres. Myself, as an example, I like
> country most, followed very closely by southern rock and
> classic rock. But I also like oldies, some dance music,
> some AC, and even some rap, reggae, classical, and jazz
> thrown in, too.... Granted, Bob doesn't have quite THAT
> wide of a playlist, but this format plays songs that appeal
> to a wide variety of musical tastes. We in the radio
> business may think that 2 particular songs should never,
> under absolutely any circumstances segue. We even have very
> good reasons for that. The average listener isn't really
> going to care which song follows which -- to them, it's just
> like hitting "shuffle" on their I-Pod. It has nothing at
> all to do with whether a listener knows diddly or jack
> (sorry for the bad pun)about music at all. All they care is
> that they like the song that is currently playing and they
> like the song that comes next. If they don't, that little
> button that changes the station is not very far out of
> reach.

If you like different musical genres, fine. Great. More power to you. That's why it was good to have multiple stations on the air, each playing a different musical genre, and then you could pick what genre you wanted by using your station selector buttons.

As for the "average" musical listener, it strikes me that every self-styled expert in radio has a different idea of what the "average" listener wants. It pretty much boils down to a few different ideas of what the "average" listener wants, with everyone else who works in radio jumping onto whatever bandwagon happens to be trendy at the moment.

The reason that so many stations stuck to a distinct genre of music was that some radio programming expert with credentials out the wazoo said that too much of a hodge-podge of sound would chase away listeners. When I would call for more deep cuts from well-liked artists as a way to increase listenership, the response was "If you play a song that they aren't familiar with, they'll hit the station button". Yet those same people say "people don't listen that closely, and won't notice a train-wreck segue."

So what is it? Do they listen closely or don't they? If playing a cut from Springsteen's "Born to Run" album that wasn't a hit back in the 70's will chase away Springsteen fans, why would playing some minor hit by Chaka Khan not do the same thing?

If one set of radio experts who know what the average listener wants to hear says that playing the wrong sequence of songs will chase the listeners away, and another set of radio experts who also know what the average listener wants to hear says the exact opposite, and both sets of experts have credentials out the wazoo, then which one should anyone listen to?
 
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