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Then you explain WGN how?
So as I understand it from Mr. Boyce it is not really broadcasting but narrowcasting. Okay, I can live with that in a very large market.
But the rest of the universe deserves better.
Deserves better than what? #1 in 12+...#1 in men 25-54? #1 in Men 18+. Nothing better than number one. That is in NYC, where there are 47 radio stations fighting it out over a few share points. Deserves better than Mark Levin? He is gthe fastest growing syndicated show on the radio in America.
I never said Mark does not talk politics. Of course he does. But he talks about things that are important to his listeners, and that is the secret of his success. If you don't care about his topics, don't listen. Somebody else will take your place.
pb
With all respect, fastest growing is a great marketing line but not worth much. If I have 1000 listeners and then grow the station to 2000 listeners (we're talking small markets here) I increased the audience by 100%.
Terrific.
And once again, with all respect, you miss my larger point: another syndicated program replaces anotehr local host. A nation of radio stations all carrying the same...or close to...programming does zip for broadcasting and/or public service.
And with all respect...I can't listen to mark Levin....someone can take my place.
Terrific.
And once again, with all respect, you miss my larger point: another syndicated program replaces anotehr local host. A nation of radio stations all carrying the same...or close to...programming does zip for broadcasting and/or public service.
And with all respect...I can't listen to mark Levin....someone can take my place.
I think the problem with talk radio today is that the right wingers and the few left wingers out there all tote their respective party lines. There are few who will say "Hey that is stupid" regardless of party affiliation. While there may be others, the only one that comes to mind is Ed Schultz but for some reason he is labeled a progressive talk show host and so he seems to be relegated to smaller stations.
I have listened to many talkers and I think about the most talented is Rush and Stephanie Miller. She really cracks me up.
I know that it's all about the numbers and therefore revenue but I find myself looking for some more balanced programming and I am not suggesting a station with Rush for lunch and Schultz for afternoon drive. I'd like to find a couple of mainstream guys who don't pick sides. I am looking for someone who will expose folks like Big Phrma for what they are doing to US drug prices and the strangehold on our Congressmen (left and right). How so many folks were permitted to purchase Jumbo Mortgages with no money down and credit ratings between 580-600. How as CEO's were salting away their stroves of loot, they were cutting employee benefits left and right. This part of America is seldom discussed on many of the talk shows. I think this kind of radio could be compelling and informative and strike to the heartland. Remember 46000000 are uninsured and a similar number are underinsured.
That's what I'd like to "see" in talk radio.
Bruce
I have listened to many talkers and I think about the most talented is Rush and Stephanie Miller. She really cracks me up.
I know that it's all about the numbers and therefore revenue but I find myself looking for some more balanced programming and I am not suggesting a station with Rush for lunch and Schultz for afternoon drive. I'd like to find a couple of mainstream guys who don't pick sides. I am looking for someone who will expose folks like Big Phrma for what they are doing to US drug prices and the strangehold on our Congressmen (left and right). How so many folks were permitted to purchase Jumbo Mortgages with no money down and credit ratings between 580-600. How as CEO's were salting away their stroves of loot, they were cutting employee benefits left and right. This part of America is seldom discussed on many of the talk shows. I think this kind of radio could be compelling and informative and strike to the heartland. Remember 46000000 are uninsured and a similar number are underinsured.
That's what I'd like to "see" in talk radio.
Bruce
Since one of our local stations began carrying NPR and just about all of its national programming, I have been listening to the Diane Rehm Show.
Half of her topics don't interest me at all, but many do.
Its on at 10-noon here. Its great to hear a single topic discussed with civility throughout its one hour long segment.
Half of her topics don't interest me at all, but many do.
Its on at 10-noon here. Its great to hear a single topic discussed with civility throughout its one hour long segment.
I find myself looking for some more balanced programming and I am not suggesting a station with Rush for lunch and Schultz for afternoon drive. I'd like to find a couple of mainstream guys who don't pick sides.
You can't do this and win. The problem is, stations and PD's are judged by ratings. If I threw Rush and Shultz on the same station, I would lose 95% of my listeners at 3pm and have to jump start my station all over again. In the process I would destroy my stations TSL. There are a few stations out there that foolishly tried this. Their call letters now make a nice tombstone.
It doesn't work.
Nice idea though.
As for Great Oldies...you can't argue facts with some of these people because they throw out something like WGN having a 50 share as if it is true. They have no facts, they just make it up and hope nobody calls them on it.
pb
D
Don62
Guest
Phil Boyce said:I never said Mark does not talk politics. Of course he does. But he talks about things that are important to his listeners, and that is the secret of his success. If you don't care about his topics, don't listen. Somebody else will take your place.
pb
Really? You said he sometimes discusses politics, when in reality his show is like 99% about the topic. Iti's more like all-the-times.
Your words...
Phil Boyce said:[size=10pt]The truth is, the two most listened to hosts in America, Rush and Sean, are reaching over 30 million listeners a week between the two of them. So there is nothing wrong with what they talk about. Mark Levin, who is now on 135 stations after a year and a half in national syndication, is the fastest growing talk show in America. These three are having huge success...and sometimes they talk about politics. But the truth is, they talk about issues that matter to people. That is why they work. It is not about politics, but it is about issues that matter. Those who think they talk politics, and that nobody cares about politics, have a very narrow and myopic understanding of what really works in this business.
[/size]
If this was anything but a board I might take exception to the suggestion that my comments are not grounded in some level of fact.
In fact I never suggested WGN had a 50 share....Mr. Boyce (for whom I still have a great deal of respect) and another coupled two comments together and jumped to a conculsion.
Some facts: WGN has a 5.8 M-S 12+. The next closest is WLS with a 3.7. WABC has a 3.9. I know...I know..let's talk daypart, cume, TSL and demo...but I can't cause I'm not privy to arbitron figures.
KGO: 5.4
Funny thing: WGN and KGO both are closer to "heritage stations" with a greater variety in terms of programming than WABC. Okay...it is just my opinion...
You can draw from that what you will and clearly figures lie but I gotta tell you I think the audience is much smarter than some would suggest and I do not believe putting Rush and Shultz... or any two polar oposites would kill a stations TSL....UNLESS....the marketing and branding of the station is such that it has gone after only one small slice of the audience to the exception of the rest of the larger audience.
In TV we call it "appointment viewing." People who HATE one show somehow manage to show up later in the day for one they like. they may hate Katie but turne in for "Survivor." Why is beyond me but that is another issue.
People aren't stupid....maybe we shouldn't treat them like they are.
In fact I never suggested WGN had a 50 share....Mr. Boyce (for whom I still have a great deal of respect) and another coupled two comments together and jumped to a conculsion.
Some facts: WGN has a 5.8 M-S 12+. The next closest is WLS with a 3.7. WABC has a 3.9. I know...I know..let's talk daypart, cume, TSL and demo...but I can't cause I'm not privy to arbitron figures.
KGO: 5.4
Funny thing: WGN and KGO both are closer to "heritage stations" with a greater variety in terms of programming than WABC. Okay...it is just my opinion...
You can draw from that what you will and clearly figures lie but I gotta tell you I think the audience is much smarter than some would suggest and I do not believe putting Rush and Shultz... or any two polar oposites would kill a stations TSL....UNLESS....the marketing and branding of the station is such that it has gone after only one small slice of the audience to the exception of the rest of the larger audience.
In TV we call it "appointment viewing." People who HATE one show somehow manage to show up later in the day for one they like. they may hate Katie but turne in for "Survivor." Why is beyond me but that is another issue.
People aren't stupid....maybe we shouldn't treat them like they are.
You may not know much about what works in radio, but you have always been respectful and I do appreciate that. I will attempt to do the same here.
Just-a-reporter is...just a reporter. He is not a radio PD and does not do this for a living. He certainly has every right to his opinion. The difference between his and mine is that I really do this for a living. In other words, my job is on the line to make the right call.
If just a reporter thinks you can build a radio station with Rush and Ed back-to-back, then let him go out and get a job programming one of these talk stations in a major market and try that. I know it won't work because I have been programming major market radio stations for 17 years. But if he thinks otherwise, no problem. Go try it someplace and report back in a book or two and we will see who wins. I can always be taught a new trick or two, even by somebody posting with an anonymous name on a message board.
Just keep in mind this number, while you are mentioning shares of stations in different markets (as if they are comparable). WABC in NYC has 11:42 of TSL. That means in the spring book, the average listener to WABC listened for 11 hours and 42 minutes. It is one of the highest TSL's for a talk station in the nation. There may be a reason why those listeners listened to all those hours. But what do I know?
pb
Just-a-reporter is...just a reporter. He is not a radio PD and does not do this for a living. He certainly has every right to his opinion. The difference between his and mine is that I really do this for a living. In other words, my job is on the line to make the right call.
If just a reporter thinks you can build a radio station with Rush and Ed back-to-back, then let him go out and get a job programming one of these talk stations in a major market and try that. I know it won't work because I have been programming major market radio stations for 17 years. But if he thinks otherwise, no problem. Go try it someplace and report back in a book or two and we will see who wins. I can always be taught a new trick or two, even by somebody posting with an anonymous name on a message board.
Just keep in mind this number, while you are mentioning shares of stations in different markets (as if they are comparable). WABC in NYC has 11:42 of TSL. That means in the spring book, the average listener to WABC listened for 11 hours and 42 minutes. It is one of the highest TSL's for a talk station in the nation. There may be a reason why those listeners listened to all those hours. But what do I know?
pb
Buying and programming stations is for people under 40. Since I passed that marker (and 30+ years in the business) I leave it to the younger folks who actually LIKE working 80 hours a week. Been there, done it. Turned on at least one 24 hour all news TV (cable) operation and made it work and make money.
But I don't like to brag.
Incidentally, just to set the record straight....just a reporter is what I do now. I borrowed "justareporter" in principle from the late Sam Ervin who used to refer to himself as, "just a country lawyer." My only problem is that I'm not nearly as smart as he was.
As for anonymous name...hell...my phone number isn't even listed. I still find it amazing that anyone who works in this business would put his name on anything anywhere. Unless you are "in charge" it is like putting your thoughts on a billboard on the NJ Turnpike. Who needs that? I commend Mr. Boyce for his bravery.
I work for myself now (out of my own choice thank you) working as a reporter on occassion and teaching on the college level as it suits me and find no particular reason to be bothered. Life is evolutionary.
I suspect (although I have nothing from which to base this) that Mr. Boyce and I probably agree on the fundamentals of talent. Where we diverge is on the best use of that talent.
That's why they make horse races and there are more flavors than just vanilla at Baskin Robbins.
But I don't like to brag.
Incidentally, just to set the record straight....just a reporter is what I do now. I borrowed "justareporter" in principle from the late Sam Ervin who used to refer to himself as, "just a country lawyer." My only problem is that I'm not nearly as smart as he was.
As for anonymous name...hell...my phone number isn't even listed. I still find it amazing that anyone who works in this business would put his name on anything anywhere. Unless you are "in charge" it is like putting your thoughts on a billboard on the NJ Turnpike. Who needs that? I commend Mr. Boyce for his bravery.
I work for myself now (out of my own choice thank you) working as a reporter on occassion and teaching on the college level as it suits me and find no particular reason to be bothered. Life is evolutionary.
I suspect (although I have nothing from which to base this) that Mr. Boyce and I probably agree on the fundamentals of talent. Where we diverge is on the best use of that talent.
That's why they make horse races and there are more flavors than just vanilla at Baskin Robbins.
Phil Boyce said:Yes we are all morons in Talkradio. We should cancel the most listened to show in America, and replace it. We are making a mistake running Limbaugh.
The truth is, the two most listened to hosts in America, Rush and Sean, are reaching over 30 million listeners a week between the two of them. So there is nothing wrong with what they talk about.
I agree with your 1st comment.
There is plenty wrong with what they talk about. Rush talking about "family values" is absurd. He has been divorced at least 3 times and has no children...so he does not have a family... He is not in the least but qualified to talk on the subject. He preaches about being responsible for your actions and being held accountable and about justice. This is a man that was morbidly obese, busted with enormous amounts of narcotics and was caught with a ginormous amount of viagra on his way home from a vacation from a country know for it's vast underage (much of it homosexual) sex trade, yet did zero jail time. There is also was plenty wrong with his prejudiced/racists remarks on D McNabb. He is great at lying and pretending to be something he is not and selling a huge load of poop to millions of people a day...There is no such thing as global warming and if there is, it is caused by pinecones...Nothing wrong with that either.
Hannity: whenever he lets someone actually debate him, he gets his rear-end kicked like a red-headed step child....it is embarrassing to say the least. He is best only allowing his debaters to answer with "yes or no"...otherwise, he loses the debate, badly. He too is a great Kool Aid salesman.
Well here is the number one "news talk" station in Palm Springs FL.
http://www.wjno.com/main.html
They both carry Sean, Rush, Randi, and Ed. It can work.
Well opinion talk station thinly disguised "news talk" (IMO 95%) are what the market demands now.
Jim Bohannon Joey Reynolds and Lionel are good talkers that talks about a wide rages of issues.
Mark Levin is a tag along. If you want Sean you have to carry him.
http://www.wjno.com/main.html
They both carry Sean, Rush, Randi, and Ed. It can work.
Well opinion talk station thinly disguised "news talk" (IMO 95%) are what the market demands now.
Jim Bohannon Joey Reynolds and Lionel are good talkers that talks about a wide rages of issues.
Mark Levin is a tag along. If you want Sean you have to carry him.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Art Bell is right.
The supposed News/Talk station in most markets is really opinion radio. The call it news/talk but it's mostly opinion and mostly very slanted heavily to the right. Talk about your media bias.
The supposed News/Talk station in most markets is really opinion radio. The call it news/talk but it's mostly opinion and mostly very slanted heavily to the right. Talk about your media bias.
It is obvious that there are two differing agendas going on here.
My agenda, I wear on my sleeve. I work in talkradio. I have done so for years. I understand the format, why it works, and what listeners want and expect out of it.
Then, you have the others who crawl out of the woodwork with their own agenda. They hate talkradio, they want to kill it. They hate Rush and Sean, and anybody on that side. Their agenda is to destroy what I do.
It should not surprise anybody that they would find fault with what I do, and how I explain what I do. They can't stand what I do. They think there should be a law passed to stop what I do....so they want the Fairness Doctrine.
It's OK. Bring it on. But let's not try to have an intelligent debate on this forum, because that just is not gonna happen. When I come here and bluntly state the facts....it infuriates them even more. The fact that the NewsTalk format is the most listened to format in radio drives them up a wall. The fact that Rush and Sean have 30 million or more listeners between the two of them makes these people insane.
So let's just agree to disagree. I can't convince you of the truth. You don't care.
My agenda, I wear on my sleeve. I work in talkradio. I have done so for years. I understand the format, why it works, and what listeners want and expect out of it.
Then, you have the others who crawl out of the woodwork with their own agenda. They hate talkradio, they want to kill it. They hate Rush and Sean, and anybody on that side. Their agenda is to destroy what I do.
It should not surprise anybody that they would find fault with what I do, and how I explain what I do. They can't stand what I do. They think there should be a law passed to stop what I do....so they want the Fairness Doctrine.
It's OK. Bring it on. But let's not try to have an intelligent debate on this forum, because that just is not gonna happen. When I come here and bluntly state the facts....it infuriates them even more. The fact that the NewsTalk format is the most listened to format in radio drives them up a wall. The fact that Rush and Sean have 30 million or more listeners between the two of them makes these people insane.
So let's just agree to disagree. I can't convince you of the truth. You don't care.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Phil Boyce said:It is obvious that there are two differing agendas going on here.
My agenda, I wear on my sleeve. I work in talkradio. I have done so for years. I understand the format, why it works, and what listeners want and expect out of it. It should not surprise anybody that they would find fault with what I do, and how I explain what I do. They can't stand what I do. They think there should be a law passed to stop what I do....so they want the Fairness Doctrine. So let's just agree to disagree.
Please let me set the record straight, Phil:
A- I don't find fault with what you do. But c'mon, you gotta admit: it's opinion radio with a definite agenda. Fox "News" Channel is a misnomer 'cause most of the "news" you get there is updates at the top and bottom of the hour. The rest is almost all right wing opinion.
B- I, for one, cannot fathom thinking it would be good to destroy what you do. And I don't believe most non-Republican/conservative citizens think it would be a good thing to silence either side. It's America and we are blessed to have free speech. But, again, to cloak it as it is by the Limbaugh, Hannity and OReilly crowd as representative of a majority of Americans is fallacy, as well. Most Americans are not close to being as political as conservative talk radio/TV or the Air America crowd. On O'Reilly's highest rated shows, most of America isn't watching- nearly 95% are watching something else (their favorite shows, sports, other cable news or any of the 500 channels available).
C- Yes, this America and isn't it great we can indeed agree to disagree. ;D
Phil Boyce said:Bring it on. I can't convince you of the truth. You don't care.
Didn't some genius named Bush say the same thing and now we have over 3500 dead US troops? "The Truth"??? When does Limp-baugh or Hannity talk about the truth? Certainly not when it comes to WMD, global warming, Saddam, or 9/11.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Caveman said:Didn't some genius named Bush say the same thing and now we have over 3500 dead US troops? "The Truth"??? When does Limp-baugh or Hannity talk about the truth? Certainly not when it comes to WMD, global warming, Saddam, or 9/11.
And, the strange thing is that they still, to this day, always mention Iraq and 9-11 in the same breath. I just don't think they get it. Reminds me of that great Manfred Mann Earth Band song from '77, "Blinded By The Light".
This has been very interesting.
It may be that today's radio stations are so focused on the tried and true, that there is no room for risk and creativity.
If one listens to Rush, it's the Dems that has caused the housing problem. If one listens to Big Ed, it's the Reps. Simple answers and go the gut and not to the brain. I suppose we're not trying to educate but to sell TV's. I suppose we're to enrage and then with the high emotional state, the listener then engages with the commercial break which is sure to follow.
It may be that today's radio stations are so focused on the tried and true, that there is no room for risk and creativity.
If one listens to Rush, it's the Dems that has caused the housing problem. If one listens to Big Ed, it's the Reps. Simple answers and go the gut and not to the brain. I suppose we're not trying to educate but to sell TV's. I suppose we're to enrage and then with the high emotional state, the listener then engages with the commercial break which is sure to follow.
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