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A's GAMES ON KIFR 106.9/KKCY 1550 - ON 20-SECOND DELAY!

D

djj

So while I'm driving about the North Bay Area this evening, and being a baseball fan of both the A's and Giants,
I'm sampling the Giants on KNBR 680, and the A's on KVON 1440 (Napa) and the two San Francisco stations
that are the A's flagship stations: KIFR 106.9 and KKCY 1550.

While KVON 1440 and KNBR 680 are in sync with what's happening on the playing field (read 'real live'), I was
blown away to hear the two A's flagship stations on a 19- or 20-second delay! KIFR is about a second off
from KKCY. Has anyone else noticed??

If this continues for a lengthy period trhrough the season on KIFR/KKCY, how would you like to be at the Oakland
ballpark and hear what you've already seen 19- or 20-seconds before?? As I write, the A's/giants pre-season
game is in the tenth inning, tied at 2.

As I recall, my friend Denny heard told me about an A's/Rangers game he heard last year on XM, which used the
Rangers' local feed for XM broadcast. The Rangers' play-by-play announcer apologized to listeners at the ballpark
for the 8-second delay they were experiencing (probably due to the station's IBOC transmission).

So why is KIFR/KKCY on 20-second delay??? Inquiring baseball fans wanna know!
--Jay
 
In regard to XM, I think it's the same issue that Sirius has on NFL football and NHL hockey: there is a latency in the signal due to the number of hops (from origin point to uplink to network center to satellite earth station to network orbital satellite to XM/Sirius receiving center to XM/Sirius earth station to XM/Sirius transmit satellite to listener's receiver) ... and then there's the buffering of the inbound signal at the receiver, too.

I have listened to the home and road broadcasts of the same NFL game on Sirius and they can be wildly off. Trying to synch a satellite radio broadcast of a game (to hear the local announcers from Indianapolis, for example) with the DirecTV satellite broadcast of the video is, at the very least, an exercise in futility.

DJ
 
Jay,

That is because Infinity Broadcasting (now CBS Radio) really screwed up with the FCC in a voluntary settlement deal over Howard Stern. As part of the deal they agreed to operate in delay on all their radio stations. This included at the time KFRC, an oldies station, why did that station need to be in delay?

It was a deal done by the CEO Joel Hollander who is on his way out and being replaced by Dan Mason. However the stupid deal has been done with the FCC and to us it is certainly not in the public interest.

The FCC does not understand the formats so you would expect the CEO of the company to know and inform the FCC that the delay is pointless, oh well too late now.

So the A's have a better affiliation this year that's almost 20 seconds behind! (let's time it tomorrow). As you realized the other stations, KNBR and KVON do not have that problem because they did not enter into an idiot deal with the Commission.

You will also notice that KGO is never in delay during their news programing weekdays from 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. That is because they are not taking calls from the public. It also makes the airbourne reporting easier so the reporters can hear the station live. When they go back into delay after 7:00 p.m. it seems long but it is less than 10-seconds.

Who knows the Infinity/FCC/Howard Stern deal may require a longer delay time. If anyone has any more information on this or any comments we look forward to them.

Newsperson
 
last post: CBS -and the delay :

here in buffalo/niagara falls, I was talking to an air talent (CBS Employee)
*PRIOR to sale of CBS_Radio, here in buffalo,niagara falls *
We were at a taco bell remote, and I said, hey tight break!! !!!

he replied: Oh, its pretty easy
(first meeting him, I immediately thought:
here we go, a big market transplant in a -minus 50 market)
and, that was his *polite* way of saying to me:

"DUUUDE" it was a stinkin remote, at a fast food place:
no big deal, and no pressure...however,
he later explained himself:

(PS) he turned out to be very cooL !!
"...the reason that break sounded, well
perfect is because it was. It was pre-recorded,
and in a studio, with a "phone-effect" I had
several attempts to "get" what -I-(he) wanted
out of that break !! furthermore, i also made sure
my Outro/sign off hit the next segment !! dead on!"

I asked, "why was it canned?"

his simple reply: "thank you, janet jackson."
(my confuzed look, continued his explanation)

"[?][he may have mentioned howard; i kinda remember
yes, kinda thinking no ?].....but thanks to Janet jackson
every one is SCARED of being the next example!!!

(as he demonstrated w/ his mic) say I am, or we
are doing a break, and some one happens to walk pass/behind us,
and drops an F_Bomb!!, we are DONE !!"

he then gave me by the book, max_enforced penalities
for *EACH* offensive; and also said, that the TALENT
themself_not the "kid"/or customer here at the taco bell,
would be responsible. he was directed to tell me,
it was up to the STATION to uphold the deceney standards, etc...

-
he said, as a preCaution (or FEAR) every remote/and
pretty much, every break that was NOT the talent's
own, "LIVE" ( and who knows at this point if that was voice
tracked or not ?!) was to be "safe guarded"....this would
include HARM*LESS stuff such as, SKI REPORTs, Traffic
updates, etc...

now us radio-PROs, and fans know some times the weather, or traffic
(or the business report comes down) off the service-provider,
and the stations plugs it in where applicable; but the
proven track record local guy, was also required to
do pre-recorded breaks...!? how offensive can the traffic be !?

i asked him, and i changed my pitch, "off the record"
how long did this go for ? / he said, i can tell u - it
*HAS* ( he used, the word: HAS) been for
at least 2 1/2 years..."

NOW,
RE:
baseball, is it possible the delay by :20 seconds or so,
may be a reProcesssing answer; or some thing along
the lines, that (being out of market, Difficult for
me to guess/answer), but - maybe it is some thing
at the station's side of it , where it actually may
the choice of the station, that is :20-seconds, behind ?
 
Part of the delay might not be their delay at all. The HD radio circuitry causes some added delay...think it's about 14 seconds.
 
djj said:
So while I'm driving about the North Bay Area this evening, and being a baseball fan of both the A's and Giants,
I'm sampling the Giants on KNBR 680, and the A's on KVON 1440 (Napa) and the two San Francisco stations
that are the A's flagship stations: KIFR 106.9 and KKCY 1550.

While KVON 1440 and KNBR 680 are in sync with what's happening on the playing field (read 'real live'), I was
blown away to hear the two A's flagship stations on a 19- or 20-second delay! KIFR is about a second off
from KKCY.

If this continues for a lengthy period trhrough the season on KIFR/KKCY,

So why is KIFR/KKCY on 20-second delay???
--Jay
Click to expand...
Jay, do you mean KYCY-1550? Or did they change calls to KKCY? Or are you referring to the Chico based FM Station with the KKCY calls?
 
He does mean KYCY 1550 licensed to San Francisco (not KKCY Coulsa) and also known as KYOU but that is not their call letters.

As Jay said 1550 SF and 1440 Napa are out of snyc as the games are live on KVON Napa 1440 and delayed on 1550. Does anyone have inoformation that KYCY has gone to HD? I would be surprised if they would spend the money. On the other hand FREE-FM 106.9 probaly has its HD in place. Regardless it is a legal deal the company made with the FCC and not a technical one.

If someone has informaiton otherwise please reply.

Newsperson
 
How did the former San Francisco calls of 98.9 KKCY, The City and 97.3 KRQR, The Rocker make their way to the Sacramento/Chico area?

KKCY Colusa/Yuba City and KRQR Chico?
 
Two-part response:
1. My apologies; when I started this post the other night at 12:30 a.m., I thought of the
old 98.9 calls 'sted of KYCY (K-YUCKY). Many thanks for the clarifying, Newsperson...

I am told that KYCY is NOT on IBOC (and listening to the 1540 and 1560 sides, I hear no
"HD squeal" that would indicate as such), but, yes, according to a radio engineer in that
market (his name is Mike), KIFR has:
> Two delays actually.
> KIFR has a delay from the H D and an Eventide delay.
> KKCY has an Eventide delay and the Board Op
> is too stupid to bypass it during a game.

If there is info you know of that can be helpful, as Newsperson also asked, please
throw it in...

BTW, when I wrote about this dilemma to play-by-play announcer Vince Cotroneo
at < [email protected] >, he responded within an hour and was very
cordial and somewhat equally frustrated about the delay. He mentioned that
several ballclubs have experienced this problem and fan response. Stay tuned!

1069_KIFR also asks:
> How did the former San Francisco calls of 98.9 KKCY, The City and 97.3 KRQR,
> The Rocker make their way to the Sacramento/Chico area?
> KKCY Colusa/Yuba City and KRQR Chico?

Seems like the Chico area has become the graveyard for old major-market calls:
witness 96.7, KZAP, the old Sacramento 98.5 calls, and for a time in the early
2000s, KJAZ (the old Alameda calls at 92.7) was on 1340 in Oroville!

Note: KRQR is licensed to that 'metropolis' of Orland, 20+ miles west of Chico.

And after being in the South Bay for some time as a 'New Age' station, the KLRS calls
were in Chico at "Colors 92.7" until late last year, when KLRS dumped the Top-40
format and became Bob FM 92.7, with the calls KBQB.

And what became of the KLRS calls? They're now on a C.P. in Lodi at 89.7 for the
K-LOVE group!:
http://www.recnet.com/cdbs/fmq.php?...ountry=US&zip=&party=&party_type=LICEN&jaws=0

Enough of my ramble; thank you!...
--Jay
 
Jay,

Did you find out about the Infinity/CBS deal with the FCC?

Since they have an Eventide digital delay at both KIFR and KKCY it seems that they are using it.

Can you find out how many seconds they have to set it to?

Finally and this goes back to the FCC........without Howard Stern on the air and no live calls being taken from the public (except for the extra innings show) why is it in the public interest to delay a live baseball game?

Newsperson
 
newsperson said:
...why is it in the public interest to delay a live baseball game?
Click to expand...

What if the crowd suddenly starts a chant--

"Gimme an F......gimme a (the letter after T)..." ;D
 
Thanks for the info 'bout those SF call letters moving up to Chico. I also knew about KZAP, but did not know if others would recognize the calls on the SF board.

Thanks again for passing on the info. Chico/ Yuba City are probably wetting thier tongues for the KFRC letters!!! ;D
 
1069_KIFR says:
> Chico/ Yuba City are probably wetting thier tongues for the KFRC letters!!!

Perish the thought!! :-[

Oh, and the KQPT calls, used for awhile in Sacramento at 100.5, are also
serving the Chico area at 107.5, also calling itself "The Point," as 100.5 did
in the early-1990s...
--Jay
 
The former KEWB (Oakland) call letters are in Redding. KEWB Anderson-Redding.

Say wasn't this post about delays on Oakland A's games?

Newsperson
 
I'm glad this thread is here. I ALWAYS listen to the A's on the radio becasue I love Ken Korach and Ray Fosse (Vince is cool too), but now the radio is actually a pitch and a half BEHIND the satellite video (FSN and CH. 36)- which itself is delayed plenty already. This is just completely unacceptable and whoever thought this was a good idea should be ashamed of themselves. I can understand a slight delay, but this is just completely out of whack.

Are we getting so obsessed with covering our rear-ends since the Janet Jackson debacle that we no longer care about the quality of the end product (like a timely undelayed broadcast)? Is it more important to make sure the politically-correct crybabies are pacified rather than give the vast majority of us the product we expect?

I feel better now. I sure hope there are avenues to fix this (but it doesn't sound like it!?)
 
Today at 06:58:50 pm, Mike Woods mentioned:
>> ...I sure hope there are avenues to fix this (but it doesn't sound like it!?)

Mike, there is possibly one avenue that could help, but I believe only if there were
the IBOC delay, and not the added delay for programming purposes that CBS has
instigated.

I belong to the AM Stereo Forum at another site, and I brought this very subject
up to Tom Ray, head of engineering for Buckley Broadcasting, and C.E. at WOR 710
in New York. Please keep in mind that this exchange occured November 30, 2004(!!!),
long before the CBS-added delay, now including the IBOC delay Ray mentions in
paragraph one. Happy(?) reading:

<TR> Hey Jay! Actually, the delay is 8.7 seconds for AM.....about 6 seconds
for FM. This allows the analog signal to time sync with the digital signal.

<< Jay >> And if it IS true, how would you like to listen to a live baseball or other
sports game on an IBOC-broadcast station, and have that kind of delay -
especially if you are listening AT the site of the game?

<TR> Stations doing this are advised to install a Part 15 transmitter at the
game location to provide a non-delayed feed. Consider this.....there are
25,000 people at the game, and let's say 10,000 are listening (that's
probably being generous). You have 250,000 people driving around listening
to the game. You don't play to the 10,000 persons in the stands, you play
to the larger audience. You could also un-sync the analog, but the person
with an IBOC radio in the car will get a very abrupt blend which is out of
sync by 8.7 seconds. If they are in a fringe digital area, this would be
extremely annoying.

<< Jay >> Or turning the TV set down to listen to the radio announcers instead,
which is done by some (especially if you watch Fox Sports or CBS-TV for football
games in SFO, since the TV Announcers are sub-par)?

<TR> I don't consider this argument valid (we carry Rutgers sports). The
network takes the feed in on digital satellite which has not only an up/down
delay, but a digital coding delay. The network then feeds it to the bird
for distribution, which adds its own up/down delay plus a coding delay. You
local TV station pulls it down and sticks it into a digital STL, which has a
coding delay. Or, you are watching on DirecTV, which adds yet another
up/down delay plus coding delay (the DirecTV feed delay from real time is
around 3 full seconds!). No matter what you do with the radio signal, you
will never be in sync with the TV feed. This was a question that was asked
to me by a station in St. Thomas I consult. They asked why they heard the
crack of the bat on the air before they saw it on their DirecTV dish....the
reason is all the up/down delays on the TV feed. They were curious if they
could use their profanity delay to sync the two, but I told them to watch
the game on the cable TV feed there....and the delay was different than off
the DirecTV dish or even directly off the network feed on C-Band.

<TR> There is going to be a learning curve with IBOC and digital radio and
television in general. Television has a bigger issue with IFB feeds for
reporters in the field (for stations presently using off-air IFB feeds).
But our jobs as Engineers is to find the way around them.....not complain
about them. The times - they are a changin'.....and life is going to start
getting very interesting.

TR

Thomas R. Ray, III, CPBE
Corporate Director of Engineering
Buckley Broadcasting/WOR Radio
Chairman, Society of Broadcast Engineers, Chapter 15
New York City
212-642-4462 phax: 212-921-4751
 
The delay will be substantially reduced prior to opening day.
 
Sure does.

It shall be a 3 second delay, better than nothing right?
 
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