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A's in Windsor, Wingham may close by August

Does that mean that they won't even operate as a repeater of the London A channel?

What would be wrong with that?

About the only change that the A London station would have to do is expand the weather segment a little and include references to Windsor.

PS: Is it just me, or does the A London newscasts go out of their way to NOT EVER mention Windsor in their weather segment? About the closest that Jay comes to mentioning Windsor is when he mentions the current temperature in Chatham. I've always found that strange.
 
I'm not sure how A runs the news on the Windsor and Wingham stations - is it the same newscast as London or are they separate. I recall visiting Windsor back around 2001 and saw the studios for "The New WI" in Windsor, but thought I had heard that they had cut back local news on the 2 "remote" A stations.

I can easily see them doing a separate weather report for each station (pre-taped), like I've seen stations with satellites in the US do (KTXS/KTXE in Sweetwater-Abilene/San Angelo share the newscast except for local weather).

Jim
 
When the Windsor station was calling itself "the new WI", the London station was calling itself "the new PL" and in Wingham, it was "the new NX". That was the last 2 letters of their call signs (CFWI, CFPL). When CTV bought them (including the wingham station), they were all branded simply as "A channel". It's prounounced as "Aeigh" channel, but because it's so bland and generic, it seems more appropriate to prounounce it like "a channel" (as in - it's just a channel).

While the anchors of the news casts are largely different between the London and Windsor station, you will see windsor stories (reported by the windsor correspondents) on the London newscast, and vice-versa. The weather presenters are (I think) more interchangable between the two newscasts. I've never seen an actual CKNX newscast, so I don't know who anchors it, or who does the weather, but I know that again it's pretty common to see a few of the CKNX-based reporters run their stories during the CFPL newscast.

Even back when it was "the new WI", there was never any local morning show. They just aired the London morning show (still do).

Again, the only hard and fast rule that I've seen over the years is that Jay Campbell very rarely does the weather on the Windsor station. I think the windsor weather is done in the London studio. And, like I said, during the weather segment on the London newscast, regardless of who is doing the weather, they will NEVER mention windsor, even though on the map behind them the windsor temperature is clearly posted. They will mention chatham, sarnia, grand bend, etc, but NEVER mention or refer to Windsor by name during the weather segment. Strange.

Also, I don't think that the Windsor A channel can be picked up by antenna - only cable. If I'm wrong - what is the channel number?.
 
sum-guy said:
Does that mean that they won't even operate as a repeater of the London A channel?

As I read it, when the licenses expire, the transmitters go dead.

In my opinion, it's very dumb, as they could be converted to repeaters of CFPL or, in Windsor's case, CKCO. It seems the CTV's current attitude (shared with the CBC) is that if you still want your programming from them, you get, and pay for, cable or satellite.

sum-guy said:
Also, I don't think that the Windsor A channel can be picked up by antenna - only cable. If I'm wrong - what is the channel number?.

Two channels, actually -- channel 16 from Wheatley, channel 60 from Windsor. Channel 60 came about as the channel 16 signal was too weak in Windsor (its target city), and increasing the power (or moving the transmitter) of channel 16 would make the American stations unhappy.
 
> > I don't think that the Windsor A channel can be picked up by antenna
> > - only cable. If I'm wrong - what is the channel number?.

> Two channels, actually -- channel 16 from Wheatley, channel 60 from
> Windsor.

I don't think I've ever seen channel 16 off-air in Windsor. As you say, it might be too weak.

> Channel 60 came about as the channel 16 signal was too weak
> in Windsor (its target city), and increasing the power (or moving
> the transmitter) of channel 16 would make the American stations
> unhappy.

That doesn't make sense. WGPR (channel 62) is Detroit's CBS channel (after channel 2, which used to be CBS, jumped to FOX). There is nothing in the detroit area (that I know of) that is close to channel 16.

And besides, with the conversion to digital, anything transmitting on channel 52 or higher would not be welcome state-side. So all in all, Channel 60 is a dumb choice for a transmitter in Windsor.

With regard to the license for the A-channel in Windsor not being renewed - was the cost of the license the deciding factor in the decision to close the station?
 
sum-guy said:
That doesn't make sense. WGPR (channel 62) is Detroit's CBS channel (after channel 2, which used to be CBS, jumped to FOX). There is nothing in the detroit area (that I know of) that is close to channel 16.

The channel 60 transmitter is low-powered at 5.8kw -- its Grade A signal covers Detroit, as far north as 696. It's B-Grade signal can go as far as Pontiac and Ypsilanti. Of course, it broadcasts at a low-power to reach only Windsor viewers, but most anyone in Metro Detroit could get it with a good outdoor antenna. However, because of its low-power, and many viewers watching TV on cable, CHWI failed to make a dent in the ratings of Detroit's stations.

Of course, channel 60 was only supposed to be 580 watts -- just enough to cover Windsor, but requested -- and got -- a power increase in 2000, to clearly cover the city. Its coverage area in Metro Detroit was just a consequence.

More here:

http://www.recnet.com/cdbs/fmq.php?cantv=CHWI-TV-60&jaws=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHWI-TV

sum-guy said:
And besides, with the conversion to digital, anything transmitting on channel 52 or higher would not be welcome state-side. So all in all, Channel 60 is a dumb choice for a transmitter in Windsor.

Not in 1995, when channel 60 signed on the air -- and digital TV was practically limited to the small-dishes. CHWI originally requested channel 6, but the FCC poo-pooed on that idea, due to WLNS in Lansing.
 
From wikipedia :

-----------------
It was 1995 when the station began transmissions to Windsor and Northern/Western Essex County on channel 60, somewhat fixing this situation. However, some parts of the Windsor area, including Tecumseh, are not reached by the Channel 60 signal, or the Channel 16 signal, and must rely on cable television access to watch CHWI-TV.
----------------

So I guess that explains why I've never seen either 16 or 60 off-air - I guess it never reached the Riverside area of Windsor.

---------------
Baton had heard the complaints regarding the signal issues in the Windsor area, and applied for a Windsor-area translator on Channel 6, with an effective radiated power of 87 watts. The Federal Communications Commission of the United States denied this request, citing potential interference with WLNS 6 from Lansing, Michigan, but recommended Channel 60 instead.
----------------

Ok, that makes no sense. CHWI is already broadcasting on channel 60 in Wheatley. They want to broadcast a measley 87 watts on channel 6 in Windsor. Their request is turned down because of a station in Lansing that's 85 miles away. If that's not ridiculous enough, the suggesting is to use channel 60 instead - which is the very exact same channel as the much closer Wheatly transmitter? With all the channels available, why choose 60 *again* for the low power repeater? Why not 58? Why, not 56?

---------------
Baton was allowed to place a broadcast translator in Windsor on Channel 60 with an effective radiated power of 580 watts (with the same signal contours as channel 6 at 87 watts)
--------------

I thought it took less power to transmit on UHF vs VHF. You're telling me that 87 watts on channel 6 gives you the same range as 580 watts on channel 60?

And those 580 watts on the windsor transmitter didn't interfere with the wheatley transmitter - also on channel 60 ???

----------------
(re-branded into A-Channel in 2005 and again as A in 2008).
---------------

I hadn't noticed the rebranding in 2008. Was caused that?

------------------
In June 2008, CTV announced that the A-Channel stations (including CHWI-TV) would be rebranded as A.
-----------------

Will someone tell me what was this obsession with the letter "A" ???

Were all the good network names taken, and they had to resort to single alphabet letters?

I'm curious as to what the actual broadcast license renewal would have cost, and if that was a factor in shutting down the station.
 
azumanga said:
sum-guy said:
Does that mean that they won't even operate as a repeater of the London A channel?

As I read it, when the licenses expire, the transmitters go dead.

Actually, in Canada that's not necessarily true.

A Canadian licence may cover more than one transmitter. A fair possibility exists that their plan is exactly what you suggest below: to "un-renew" the licences of CHWI and CKNX and relicence the transmitters as additional transmitters of CFPL.

That's what the CBC did when they bought stations in northern Ontario (Timmins/N. Bay/Sault Ste. Marie/Sudbury & two relayers) and in southern Saskatchewan. (Yorkton/Swift Current) The formerly separately-licenced stations were deleted and their transmitters added to the licences of CBLT Toronto and CBKT Regina.

In my opinion, it's very dumb, as they could be converted to repeaters of CFPL or, in Windsor's case, CKCO.
 
I believe Sun TV may want to buy those stations. (or at least one of them)
In doing so, it would remove their restriction on the London market.

Currently, they are not allowed to solicit the London market for ads, but they would like to.

It'll be interesting to see if the stations just go dead, or if someone else picks them up.
 
w9wi said:
azumanga said:
sum-guy said:
Does that mean that they won't even operate as a repeater of the London A channel?

As I read it, when the licenses expire, the transmitters go dead.

Actually, in Canada that's not necessarily true.

A Canadian licence may cover more than one transmitter. A fair possibility exists that their plan is exactly what you suggest below: to "un-renew" the licences of CHWI and CKNX and relicence the transmitters as additional transmitters of CFPL.

But this time, it's different -- CTV has plans to shutter many satellites and repeaters of CTV and "A" stations, including CHWI channel 60 in Windsor:

http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/pdf/CTVCORP/AppendixB_ListofTransmitters.pdf
 
About CHWI:

The Channel 60 transmitter is actually highly directional towards the southeast, and would not be viewable on the American side, except maybe in downtown Detroit. This is according to Industry Canada's database. The RECnet maps for Canada do not consider directional antennas, at least for TV, yet.

It appears to me that the Channel 16 transmitter will be retained as a relay for CFPL. This would not surprise me, as the largest community in that station's A-grade coverage area is Chatham, where OTA viewership is very high.

About CKNX:

Their newscasts are simulcast from CFPL nowadays, although there is some split-fed content including weather on the 11 PM news. News has not been produced or broadcast from Wingham since the early 1990s. From then until 2004, CKNX newscasts consisted of a half-hour pre-taped newscast from CFPL's studio, with the same anchors as CFPL. The two newscasts broadcast separately until 6:35, at which time CKNX joined CFPL live for the remainder of the hour. That is why for years, Jay Campbell's first forecast at 6:30 only included London in the five-day, but his update at 6:55 included both London and Midwestern Ontario. This setup was discontinued in 2004 when CKNX's Owen Sound bureau closed, as that bureau had at least two reporters in addition to the two or more reporters in Wingham, giving the area sufficient coverage to fill a half hour show.

Under Blackburn ownership, CKNX broadcast a full-hour newscast at 6 called Insight, later called Focus. After disaffiliation from the CBC in 1988, Focus was cut to a half hour and moved to 5:30, and they broadcast FYI from CFPL at 6. Prior to CBC disaffiliation, the two stations had significantly different schedules, even for some morning CBC shows.

Noon and weekend newscasts always were simulcast on CFPL, CKNX and CHWI after Baton took over.
 
M.J. said:
It appears to me that the Channel 16 transmitter will be retained as a relay for CFPL. This would not surprise me, as the largest community in that station's A-grade coverage area is Chatham, where OTA viewership is very high.

No, it looks like "azumanga" is right. See http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/pdf/CTVCORP/Appendix1A_SupplementaryBrief_February232009.pdf which says in part, at the top of page 14:
For viewers in Wingham and Wheatley/Windsor to be able to access the programming these stations broadcast, they will need to subscribe to a BDU that carries CFPL-TV.

("these stations" refers to CKNX, CHWI, and the CHWI relayer in Windsor)

There would be no need to subscribe to a BDU if the CFPL signal was being rebroadcast on channels 16 and 60.

The same document indicates CKX-TV in Brandon is also likely to disappear. (it was offered to the CBC for $1; they wouldn't bite, saying they couldn't afford to operate it.) And this document: http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/pdf/CTVCORP/AppendixB_ListofTransmitters.pdf lists 45 relay transmitters (including ch. 60 Windsor) whose licences CTV doesn't plan to renew. A separate document: http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/pdf/CTVCORP/Appendix1F_DiscontinuedLocalProgramming.pdf lists four stations which indeed will be converted from originating stations to relayers of Kitchener and Edmonton stations.
 
I'm not entirely sure about Channel 16. The one document with all those transmitters across Canada mentions CKNX-TV as a transmitter not to be renewed, and it also mentions CHWI-TV-60, but it doesn't mention CHWI-TV that I could see.
 
From CTV's press release (see link in the first post):

"...it will not be applying for renewal of the CKNX-TV Wingham and CHWI-TV Wheatley licences (and its rebroadcaster in Windsor)."


Even though the documentation did not mention the Wheatley transmitter, the press release implied that the closure of the channel 16 signal is also CTV's intent. Though of course, while that list was supposed to list rebroadcasters that are slated to be shuttered, it included CKNX-TV, a full station, on that list.
 
azumanga said:
From CTV's press release (see link in the first post):

"...it will not be applying for renewal of the CKNX-TV Wingham and CHWI-TV Wheatley licences (and its rebroadcaster in Windsor)."

I would not necessarily read this as meaning the Wheatley transmitter would go off -- it could simply mean it would be converted to a 100% relay of CFPL London; the channel 16 transmitter would lose its own licence and would be added to the CFPL-TV licence.

However, on page 14 of the first appendix, it says:
For viewers in Wingham and Wheatley/Windsor to be able to access the programming these stations broadcast, they will need to subscribe to a BDU that carries CFPL-TV.

("these stations" refers to CKNX and CHWI)

(in other words, I'm agreeing with you but for a different reason! )

Even though the documentation did not mention the Wheatley transmitter, the press release implied that the closure of the channel 16 signal is also CTV's intent. Though of course, while that list was supposed to list rebroadcasters that are slated to be shuttered, it included CKNX-TV, a full station, on that list.

The list (in the second appendix) is captioned as a list of transmitters which they don't intend to renew -- I would suggest that's an all-inclusive term that would mean both rebroadcasters and full stations.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident CHWI's absence from that list is a typo.
 
Are there any overlapping coverage with CKNX, CHWI, and CFPL each other?

CTV can use another repeater in the Windsor and Wigham area.
 
They *did* say London's news will be an expanded newscast to better serve everything from London to Windsor.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
They *did* say London's news will be an expanded newscast to better serve everything from London to Windsor.

Yes, but potentially over cable - noting that they did say viewers wishing to continue to view "A" programming in Windsor (and Wingham) would need to subscribe to a cable/satellite service that carries CFPL.
 
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