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Atlanta radio and the gas shortage

OutOfTheBiz said:
taylorengineer said:
[
What part about "refinery output half of normal" did you not hear about?? "No reserve capacity or refining capability in the S.E. United States" means.

I did not hear about them because they are not true. Where did YOU hear this? Please show me one credible piece of news that supports these claims.

I'll be pre-emptive and show you a brief excerpt from an AJC article from Sunday 9/28
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/09/28/gas_shortage_explainer.html

The stockpiles of gasoline and other products are lower now than after Hurricane Katrina. So current shutdowns are mainly due to power outages in the areas where there are refineries. The good news is they’re starting to come back online. Production will be restored faster than it was after Katrina and Rita because the refineries weren’t damaged as badly. As of Friday, only four of 56 Gulf Coast refineries remain closed.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-09-28-Gas-shortage_N.htm

Reference the above link-
Quote:

"The Southeast is the only region of the nation that has no oil refining or major gasoline storage capacity."

Kenneth Medlock -Baker Institute, a non partisan public think tank at Rice University in Houston.

Is this credible??
What exactly are YOUR credentials in the oil industry?? If you're so sure I'm publishing false information.......
Prove it!
 
My original point was not about supply shortages. Clearly, there isn't enough supply to meet demand at the current price. That's why it is the price that is to blame in our equation.

My point was that since supply has dwindled and demand has not, we have shortages. The correct way to deal with shortages from economics 101 is to raise prices. As prices go up, demand is reduced (people car pool, stay home, etc) and eventually as prices rise, demand drops to a level that can be met by supply and shortages go away. Then as supply is increased prices are forced down again. Prices aren't set by anyone but the market. For prices to go down either demand must be reduced or supply must be increased.

It has nothing to do with politics. It is economics.
 
taylorengineer said:
OutOfTheBiz said:
taylorengineer said:
[
What part about "refinery output half of normal" did you not hear about?? "No reserve capacity or refining capability in the S.E. United States" means.

I did not hear about them because they are not true. Where did YOU hear this? Please show me one credible piece of news that supports these claims.

I'll be pre-emptive and show you a brief excerpt from an AJC article from Sunday 9/28
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/09/28/gas_shortage_explainer.html

The stockpiles of gasoline and other products are lower now than after Hurricane Katrina. So current shutdowns are mainly due to power outages in the areas where there are refineries. The good news is they’re starting to come back online. Production will be restored faster than it was after Katrina and Rita because the refineries weren’t damaged as badly. As of Friday, only four of 56 Gulf Coast refineries remain closed.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-09-28-Gas-shortage_N.htm

Reference the above link-
Quote:

"The Southeast is the only region of the nation that has no oil refining or major gasoline storage capacity."

Kenneth Medlock -Baker Institute, a non partisan public think tank at Rice University in Houston.

Is this credible??
What exactly are YOUR credentials in the oil industry?? If you're so sure I'm publishing false information.......
Prove it!

Great. My credentials in the oil industry are exactly the same as yours.

I would take issue with the comment that the SE has no oil refining capability. I would say the Louisiana is firmly planted in the Southeast. There are quite a few there. Mr. Think Tank may choose to disagree in his interpretation.

As for gasoline production being at "half of normal" - I've already shown you my answer for that.

The same article also backs up what others have been saying all along, that panic-buying and tank-topping have depleted the in-station inventories. So not only do we have a dip in supply, we have an unnecessary INCREASE in demand at the same time.
 
I agree that panic buying has raised consumption and certainly has aggrevated the situation but. as I have argued all along, is not the CAUSE of the shortage.
Raising the price to $1000 per gallon will not put 1 extra gallon of gas in the ground in your neighborhood. There will still be a shortage of gas - everyone who needs gas will not be able to purchase it. You have simply filtered the non wealthy from the line - good system if you have money - no pesky lines at the pump.
So let's see what kind of "free marketeer" you really are.
There's a water shortage. Water goes for however much the market will support. I can't pay $1000 for a gallon of water - you can.
I will nail you in the head with a RCA DX77 and then steal your water before my children die of thirst.
Free market talk is fine and good when you're talking about setting the price of color tvs or sports cars. It's bogus when you're talking about the essentials needed for survival.
 
Yesterday I filled up at a station that only had premium for $4.40 per gallon and was only allowing each car to purchase $40 at each time at the pump. Because of that they still had gas this morning.

The higher price and limited quantity meant that people got fewer gallons of gas, but served more people overall.
 
taylorengineer said:
I agree that panic buying has raised consumption and certainly has aggravated the situation but. as I have argued all along, is not the CAUSE of the shortage.
Raising the price to $1000 per gallon will not put 1 extra gallon of gas in the ground in your neighborhood. There will still be a shortage of gas - everyone who needs gas will not be able to purchase it. You have simply filtered the non wealthy from the line - good system if you have money - no pesky lines at the pump.
So let's see what kind of "free marketeer" you really are.
There's a water shortage. Water goes for however much the market will support. I can't pay $1000 for a gallon of water - you can.
I will nail you in the head with a RCA DX77 and then steal your water before my children die of thirst.
Free market talk is fine and good when you're talking about setting the price of color tvs or sports cars. It's bogus when you're talking about the essentials needed for survival.

To draw a similar analogy with water...

Let hypothetically say the water supply is limited to a finite amount forgetting for a moment that water is never really consumed only borrowed (similar to beer only slower).

Water is used for many things beyond drinking. Such as watering your lawn, washing your clothes, washing your car etc. In the event the water supply is constrained the market requires either prices to increase or demand to be lowered. Otherwise, shortages occur. So, just like our recent drought the solution to the problem was to 'ration' water. Water was rationed by outlawing some of the ways we use it, resulting in a lower demand. If the demand hadn't been lowered, and prices remained the same, we would have been faced with shortages.

Higher prices are a means to lower demand (not eliminate it). It means that both "rich" and "poor" modify their consumption by trimming the most frivolous usage. For you it may be watering your lawn. For someone else it may be washing their Bentley. In no case would it mean trimming to the point that you couldn't give your kids a drink of water. That would only occur in the event of shortages.
 
I'm just stunned that the initial media reports that this was to be a shortage lasting ony a few days was wrong. What's left to believe in anymore?
 
"Oil companies (Exxon in particular) are posting their highest quarterly earnings reports. How are they doing this? By charging more for gas."

I'm pretty sure their profit margin per gallon remains static regardless of what they are paying on the world market for crude. The difference is Exxon is worldwide, and obviously sales are increasing significantly, otherwise the price of crude would still be low.
 
temporary name said:
"Oil companies (Exxon in particular) are posting their highest quarterly earnings reports. How are they doing this? By charging more for gas."

I'm pretty sure their profit margin per gallon remains static regardless of what they are paying on the world market for crude. The difference is Exxon is worldwide, and obviously sales are increasing significantly, otherwise the price of crude would still be low.

Profit margin per gallon probably remains the same on a percentage basis not a cents per gallon basis. It is Wall Street driven. If a company's profit margin went from 5% to 2.5% the stock would take a hit. That is the more likely reason why profits are greatly up in relationship to an increased cost per barrel of oil. Volume might be up it is the percentage profit on higher cost driving those record profits.
 
RTibbs said:
Profit margin per gallon probably remains the same on a percentage basis not a cents per gallon basis. It is Wall Street driven. If a company's profit margin went from 5% to 2.5% the stock would take a hit. That is the more likely reason why profits are greatly up in relationship to an increased cost per barrel of oil. Volume might be up it is the percentage profit on higher cost driving those record profits.

Slow down. You are using logic that mixes and matches colors that don't go together.

Our basic thread is about the fact that ATLANTA has some kind of supply problem. Other than Nashville, which now seems to have returned to supply-and-demand equilibrium and maybe Tallahassee, we are not having this "stand in a line three blocks long" to buy gas. We have a very local problem. And that IS NOT Wall Street driven. You are talking about cents-per-gallon profits and profit margin as a percentage of sales, and all of that applies to "the big oil companies" and that is a Wall Street problem.

We seem to be experiencing a MAIN STREET problem. It is not the people of WALL STREET who are running down to the Quick Trip and buying a quarter tank of gas in Atlanta. Either when the gasoline leaves the refinery and enters the pipeline, or when the gasoline comes out of the pipeline into a tank farm at Doraville and at the moment it goes into the tanker truck, that product no longer belongs to "the big oil company" and Wall Street. It now becomes the product of Main Street and the local distributors and the local dealers.

Why are some local stations routinely, just like clockwork, re-supplied with a tanker load of gasoline, while down the street or a few miles away, a station sits there day after day, maybe getting one truck a week, not one truck a day? That is not a Wall Street problem, that is a main street problem.

Panic buying made a great scape-goat for 5 to 7 days. Once every main street customer in Atlanta made at least ONE trip to the pumps, we are back to needing to pump gas in amounts equal to usage. Why is the "panic buying" going to be blamed for 3 or 4 weeks of upheaval and standing in line? If we knew a hurricane was coming, we could see every household in town trying to carry home a 3 month supply of bread, or toilet paper, or bottled water. Stack it in the garage. Put it in the back bedroom. There is a lot of elasticity in the ability to hoard those products.

But gasoline? Ever try to put 3 months of gasoline in the trunk of you Lexus? Other than a couple of lawn mower supply containers, once every vehicle in the area has been to the gas station at least once and has gone from riding around with an average of a quarter tank on hand, to a new status of 7/8th full all the time, the panic buying has to be over. How can this problem possibly be going on for 3 to 6 weeks before it clears up?

Main Street ATLANTA and State of Georgia government have a problem. Wall Street has a problem, but it is NOT gasoline.

Now, if radio had some REAL NEWS DEPARTMENTS, some of them might have come to the same concept that I have, and might have been asking some questions of the oil distributors, the gasoline retailers, and the politicians that are not being asked, AND RADIO IS NOT TALKING ABOUT.
 
This has to be a field day for the copnspiracy theorists.
In point of fact, I drove yesterday to Nashville and back. (And heard some very bad radio) Once I was 55 - 60 miles from Atlanta, all the stations had gas, there were no lines, business was normal. Returning I took the scenic route. Again, in the northern mountains, plenty of gas, no lines, etc. Aboud Dawsonville, lines, no gas, etc.
Make of it what you will.
 
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