Attack!!!

[observer11]

When i was out of town last weekend i heard 2 stations that were attacking each other saying that "they (meaning other station) don't give you 8 in a row, you have to sit through 7 minutes of commercials....." you get the point, and the other station was attacking with "yawn, you don't have to listen to this song..to get this..slammed into metallica.

anyway, does attacking other stations on-air actually work? we don't have 2 rocks in this market but i know wild/CKEY attacks kiss on air quite a bit, i know the AC's WHTT, WTSS, WJYE, JACK not in so many words attack each other...does it work to put down the other station or does it hurt when listeners say that's stupid cause there is so much cross cume that goes on?

 

[Yeziknoradio]

When i was out of town last weekend i heard 2 stations that were attacking each other saying that "they (meaning other station) don't give you 8 in a row, you have to sit through 7 minutes of commercials....." you get the point, and the other station was attacking with "yawn, you don't have to listen to this song..to get this..slammed into metallica.

anyway, does attacking other stations on-air actually work? we don't have 2 rocks in this market but i know wild/CKEY attacks kiss on air quite a bit, i know the AC's WHTT, WTSS, WJYE, JACK not in so many words attack each other...does it work to put down the other station or does it hurt when listeners say that's stupid cause there is so much cross cume that goes on?

Let's go back in time for this one.

Back in the day, WKSE and Magic 102 were in their own war.
Did Magic 102 benefit by saying stuff like "It's a fact...Kiss talks too much!"?

Today, things are very different.
Comparing Z101 to WKSE is alot like trying to compare apples to oranges.
What is the signal strength like for Z101 in Buffalo?
Then add in the fact that Z has to play 35-40% Canadian, while WKSE doesn't have to worry about that.

Now, if a station in Buffalo wants to take on WKSE...
(not gonna happen...too much risk of maintaining an audience that is "too young")

If anyone is going to start an ugly radio war in Buffalo today, they may want to consider going country first...(FM country, respectfully.)

 

[Radknowski]

Retreat

Attack promos are meaningless these days because there are so many alternative sources for music entertainment. The last thing radio needs is to wholely chase listeners away from radio by saying "the other station sucks." Plus, listeners these days are more astute. If station "X" says station "Y" sucks, listeners are prone to say, "You both suck," and turn to their iPods.

Back in the day when Magic-Q-102.5 and Kiss 98.5 were throwing barbs at each other, there was no competition from the Internet, no MP3's, no iPods. Yes, there were cassettes and CD players, but the point is, radio faces far more competition now than ten, twenty years ago.

Most music stations run competitive promos, but in most cases they imply station "X" is inferior by speaking to the virtues and benefits of station "Y." Star, Mix and WJYE needle each other with promos that stress the virtues of "variety," "the most music" and "no repeat" during the work day.

The days of "Go ahead, turn on Kiss right now and they're playing a commercial" promos are over. With just about every station running six to eight minute commercial breaks, those types of promos are baldfaced lies.

Listeners hear through the hype.

 

[SpareChange]

Good points, but there's one more that was omitted. With consolidation, most of the stations that attacked each other ten or twenty years ago are now owned by the same company!

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Good points, but there's one more that was omitted. With consolidation, most of the stations that attacked each other ten or twenty years ago are now owned by the same company!

Yep! Magic and Kiss being the prime example of that!
I miss the days of Kiss being a Price Communications station while Magic 102 was run by another owner.

We'll soon see if the so called Z/Kiss wars get ugly enough for Z to keep throwing cheap shots at Kiss, but I doubt anyone is going to care...

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: Retreat

Attack promos are meaningless these days...

"Listeners hear through the hype."

Someone forgot to tell that to Jack Toronto. They are now a rock station, effective immediately.

"We may not have been rockin' as long as other stations...just means we're not old and tired yet"
(To name one of many new attacks on Toronto's Q107...)

 

[Steven21]

It actually amazes me that stations have not yet evolved past "we play eight in a row, THEY don't" or anything else along those lines.

This is one of those problematic mentalities held by far too many a programmer. It is the classic out-of-touch with the listener approach.

Why any station points out how many commericals they play is amazing to me. Completely amazing.

Listeners don't get caught up in the nit-picky details of that stuff. Here's what it comes down to: If you continue to play a style of music that someone likes, they listen. If you're playing a commercial, you stand to lose them, if not for just a few minutes.

Don't tell me how many you play in a row. Don't tell me how little your jocks talk. Don't tell me you only stop the music twice an hour---because that, on the face of it, sounds to a listener like two stops too many.

In short: STOP OVERTHINKING this stuff.

 

[Radknowski]

Don't tell me how many you play in a row. Don't tell me how little your jocks talk. Don't tell me you only stop the music twice an hour---because that, on the face of it, sounds to a listener like two stops too many. In short: STOP OVERTHINKING this stuff.

Well said. And with today's technology, from something as simple as 21 pre-sets on the car radio to iPod docking stations on car radios to Wi-Fi, all those stupid positioning statements speak to a different era... like maybe 20 years ago. It's a different environment. Seems the best thing to do is tell listeners why your station is different and how it benefits their taste for music, news, weather or sports and serves their needs.

Someone forgot to tell that to Jack Toronto. They are now a rock station, effective immediately. "We may not have been rockin' as long as other stations...just means we're not old and tired yet" To name one of many new attacks on Toronto's Q107.

Great. Just what Toronto needs... another Classic Rock station to compete with one of the best Classic Rockers in North America. I had to laugh at the stupidity of that particular positioning statement, "we're not old and tired yet." If they're playing Classic Rock, they're playing songs that are 20, 30 and 40 years old. The Guess Who's "No Time" and Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" were hits in... err, what, 68, 69? There's a wicked sense of satisfaction knowing that some programmers and marketers in Canada's largest market can be as mindless as their counterparts in the States. And if Semi-Jockless Jack in Toronto thinks they're going to be Q-107 with established jocks, whooo boy, have they stepped on a fresh, hot, Labrador Retriever dog turd.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Jack vs. Q107

I'm sure that Derringer is quaking in his mukluks at the prospect of facing a jockless "Jack".

Kim Mitchell may have to go for something to add to his soda.

Yes, consternation will abound at "The Mighty Q".

</sarcasm>

 

[SpareChange]

No doubt, Q-107 is one of the best sounding Classic Rock stations in North America and Jack 92.5 shouldn't be a threat to Derringer, Mitchell and other well-known personalities at Q-107. But there's always the outside chance that listeners in Toronto, like those in Buffalo, will spend time checking out 92.5 and find it an alternative of sorts to Q-107.

Hasn't something like this happened in Buffalo with Jack 92.9 becoming a kind of "second favorite" station to 97 Rock, Star and WHTT and influencing those stations to go deeper or broader on songs that might not have been played a year or two ago. Jack 92.5 might force Q-107 to re-think its two minute commercial break policy and return to longer music sweeps and longer commercial breaks as well.

In the end, Q-107 being a better, more established station, likely will win the race by a large margin.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Me thinks it's more of a "Q107 fired me, so I'll show them" thing going on between Q&Jack right now.
The current Jack pd, and afternoon drive guy at Jack Toronto used to be a radio personality at Q.

If they changed the name of Jack and went with something fresh and new, I'd be alot more supportive, since the 97.7 signal in Toronto is horrible, and meant more to be a St. Catherines station.

Add in the fact that Y108 is a sister Q station that was meant to target Hamilton, not Toronto, and there's good reason to compete with Corus and/or Astral Media for the rocker's ear.

Right now the station sounds like "We play what we want...don't grow attached to us...we might want to play rap or country tomorrow..."

There's no real seriousness in the desire to be a rock station down the road at all, it would seem.

I now offically declare 92.5 to be the WBUF of Toronto.
I wonder what they'll be next week...

 

[SirRoxalot]

I wasn't aware that Jeff Brown was fired at Q107. I thought he left for a programming opportunity, and that Carly Classen followed him a few months later.

It appears that they're back, and Jack is going with jocks. In fact, it appears that several jocks are former Q107 staffers - Jeff & Carly and Samantha Stevens.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

I wasn't aware that Jeff Brown was fired at Q107. I thought he left for a programming opportunity, and that Carly Classen followed him a few months later.

It appears that they're back, and Jack is going with jocks. In fact, it appears that several jocks are former Q107 staffers - Jeff & Carly and Samantha Stevens.

Samantha Stevens was actually a filler Q jock for someone on Maternity leave.
Rogers Loves her for all the hard work she did in Ottawa, for Ottawa radio, as well as work for several other stations that were vt'd to sound like she's there.

I'm not saying that's the case with Jack now, but indeed Samantha is an incredible person that *any* radio company would be lucky to have.

As for Jeff being fired from Q, I do have to apologize, it would *seem* he chose to leave. I'm silent on that as of now, and going with "he chose to leave".
(That's what seems to be good for me. ;D)

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Mike Tylor is now doing evening weeknights on Jack Toronto.

I wouldn't normally mention that here, since this is the Buffalo board, not the Toronto board, but some people lurking/posting here may recall him from his days at 97.7 HTZ FM and Y108.

 

[aaronread]

I admit...I miss the old WAAF promos: "All radio stations SUCK! We just suck a little less..."
;D

 

[Yeziknoradio]

I admit...I miss the old WAAF promos: "All radio stations SUCK! We just suck a little less..."
;D

I dare Boston's 107.3 (current "WAAF") to say that today!

 

[RadioJammer]

Jack has changed formats more than I changed my underwear.
Q107 has nothing to worry about. Any station from Toronto beats the pants off any Buffalo station.

And I live in Buffalo.

No doubt, Q-107 is one of the best sounding Classic Rock stations in North America and Jack 92.5 shouldn't be a threat to Derringer, Mitchell and other well-known personalities at Q-107. But there's always the outside chance that listeners in Toronto, like those in Buffalo, will spend time checking out 92.5 and find it an alternative of sorts to Q-107.

Hasn't something like this happened in Buffalo with Jack 92.9 becoming a kind of "second favorite" station to 97 Rock, Star and WHTT and influencing those stations to go deeper or broader on songs that might not have been played a year or two ago. Jack 92.5 might force Q-107 to re-think its two minute commercial break policy and return to longer music sweeps and longer commercial breaks as well.

In the end, Q-107 being a better, more established station, likely will win the race by a large margin.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Any station from Toronto beats the pants off any Buffalo station.

And I live in Buffalo.

Would that be because in Canada it's still illegal to own more than two AM or two FM radio stations?

Then there's the whole 35-40% can con issue for the Cdn stations...

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: Retreat

Attack promos are meaningless these days because there are so many alternative sources for music entertainment. The last thing radio needs is to wholely chase listeners away from radio by saying "the other station sucks." Plus, listeners these days are more astute. If station "X" says station "Y" sucks, listeners are prone to say, "You both suck," and turn to their iPods.

Listen to the launch of Toronto's NINE NINE NINE Virgin radio here:

http://www.virginradio999.com/media/777982/Virgin+Radio

They refer to Chum FM as "Old" and Z 103 as all Techno beats (or whatever)

I think it was just for the launch though, because I havn't heard any attack ads since.

If Buffalo were to get a Virgin radio, would they dare to attack the other guys like that??

 

[Bob1370]

"I miss the days of Kiss being a Price Communications station while Magic 102 was run by another owner."

Given what Price did to WKBW and almost did to Kiss, I don't think anyone misses that badly run company.

Conversely, Magic 102 at the time (through the early 1990s) was owned by Larry Levite's Algonquin Broadcasting...now THERE's an owner who definitely IS missed. Wish Western NY still had more locally based guys like him who really cared about the quality of what they were broadcasting, and thought of their stations as real entertainment and information venues and not just vehicles to deliver advertising.