Audacy producing "Training Camp Live"; Buffalo Bills are persona non grata

[Rusty Bridges]

Profit from what? You seem to believe the investment is in the team, and that's not where the investment is being made. The investment is in the stadium. Of course the state or county will reap the benefits from the stadium, whatever they happen to be. Parking fees, concession fees, naming rights, other uses for the stadium. But the main benefit to taxpayers is from the continued presence of the Buffalo Bills in the area, the fans the team attracts, the money they spend in the area, and that sort of thing.

It is what is called a public-private partnership. That's also what the American system of broadcasting is considered. You own the facilities and the government owns the spectrum. They regulate what you do with your facility. The stadium will be a similar arrangement.

Out of town posters, be apprised:

§ The City of Buffalo isn't involved in this transaction. It's on Erie County and New York State, which will float bonds and finance the construction of a new stadium, largely paid for by the taxpayers of Erie County and New York State.

§ Parking fees, concessions and other residuals don't entirely go to Erie County. There's a split.

§ The new stadium, if it's ever built, will be across Abbott Road from the current stadium (out of town posters should Google Map it.) The county owns the land. There's even some talk of razing Erie Community College South campus to accommodate the stadium, although that theory seems premature as well as impractical.

§ The state sales tax is 4%. Erie County levies a sales tax of 4.75%. When a customer purchases an item for $1,000, he/she ponies up and addition $87.50 before leaving the store or on-line shopping cart.

Property taxes are high. In large measure, the tax rate in western New York is higher than most parts of the country because there are countless layers of government in the state and the county. Take Lancaster, Depew and Sloan for example... or school districts... there are four school districts in Cheektowaga, each having separate administrations. We have state police, town and/or village police and county sheriffs deputies. There are a lot of layers on the fiscal onion.

Terry Pegula's net worth, according to Forbes, is $6 billion "with-a-B-dollars." As rightfully noted earlier ↑ in this thread, it's not like he has that money in his mattress, but he's most likely $5.999,995 billion wealthier than most people who go to the stadium to watch the Bills.

Where this ends is anybody's guess, but it's likely Pegula will come up with some of the financing, and the state will bend over backwards. The question is how much, and at what cost. The NFL has put a gun to the head of Western New York and New York State taxpayers. Pegula has his finger on the trigger.

How many rounds in the chamber?

 

[TheBigA]

§ The City of Buffalo isn't involved in this transaction.

Yes I know. I clearly referenced that in my post.

In case you missed it: "Of course the state or county will reap the benefits from the stadium,"

If there a bond floated, the people will vote on it. But there are other ways to finance a stadium. So we'll see.

But my point, to tie this back to radio, is that radio stations operate under similar public-private partnership rules. Buddy doesn't give a percentage of his profits to the FCC. Although he does pay a fee. That's how the stadium would operate.

 

[tbolt909]

Where this ends is anybody's guess, but it's likely Pegula will come up with some of the financing, and the state will bend over backwards. The question is how much, and at what cost. The NFL has put a gun to the head of Western New York and New York State taxpayers. Pegula has his finger on the trigger.

How many rounds in the chamber?

This type of scenario has played out in other cities. Either you build the stadium or the Bills leave town. The Bills currently rank #32. That's last in net value of the NFL teams. The small TV market doesn't help.

The price of having an NFL team is steep. If a new stadium gets built, ticket prices will be substantially higher. Pegula and Roger Goodell certainly have discussed the future viability of the Bills staying in Buffalo. Other cities that host Super Bowls have Football Palaces and enough hotels to accommodate the crowds. Buffalo can't do that.

Whether the local or state residents will get to vote on a new stadium deal is uncertain. That has happened in other places with different results and outcomes. Which side blinks? Pegula and the NFL have the upper hand...

 

[TheBigA]

This type of scenario has played out in other cities. Either you build the stadium or the Bills leave town.

Only if the owner sells the team. This owner seems committed to make it work in Buffalo:

Buffalo Bills owners Terry and Kim Pegula are committed to paying a portion of the projected $1.4 billion in their proposal to build a stadium. “When it comes to the future new home of the Bills, (the Pegulas) have always known that, like virtually all NFL stadiums, this will ultimately be some form of a public/private partnership,” Pegula Sports and Entertainment senior vice president Ron Raccuia said in a statement to The Associated Press on Saturday.

Those are not threatening words. They are not saying pay up or we leave. The area benefits from having the team in Buffalo. The state benefits from having the team in Buffalo. So it sounds like everyone is playing nice.

 

[tbolt909]

Only if the owner sells the team. This owner seems committed to make it work in Buffalo:



Those are not threatening words. They are not saying pay up or we leave. The area benefits from having the team in Buffalo. The state benefits from having the team in Buffalo. So it sounds like everyone is playing nice.

The NFL is pressuring Pegula and the city to build a new stadium. Roger Goodell has said a new stadium is a must. Maybe not a threat, but a firm warning. The Bills have stated they will not renew their lease without a new stadium deal.

A new stadium deal may very well get done, but the price tag will be high. Beyond the tribal emotional connection, it's hard to say how much an area financially benefits from having an NFL team. Very few Bills players probably live in Buffalo year round. They're spending their money elsewhere...

 

[TheBigA]

Very few Bills players probably live in Buffalo year round. They're spending their money elsewhere...

That's OK. There's money to be made on fans regardless of where they live.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Very few Bills players probably live in Buffalo year round. They're spending their money elsewhere...

Take the 53 man roster, add 16 practice squad players. Let's say half live in Buffalo year round. Then add coaches, assistant coaches and support personnel. A conservative estimate puts that number at 30, most of whom do live in Western New York year round. Just speculatin', but the total number of year round employees in the Bills organization is around 55 to 65.

True, that number is nowhere near the number of employees at Chevy Tonawanda or the Ford stamping plant, but those employees pay state income taxes, local taxes and they buy goods and services which are taxed. Each player gets a paycheck after every game and taxes are deducted from the paycheck. Very likely, those taxes are sizeable.

There is an issue with market size, and the revenue derived from a market as small as Buffalo. Green Bay is also a small market, but it's a legacy franchise, and publicly owned. Milwaukee is a stone's throw away, giving Green Bay a lift in metro market appeal.

New Orleans, also a small market, is a tourist Mecca. Perhaps this will change for a while, given the destruction caused by hurricane Ida, but still, NOLA has more to offer.

So yes, Buffalo is at the bottom of the metro rankings... until you add Rochester, Erie and most of all, Toronto. The problem with Toronto (including Hamilton, St. Cathrines and the Golden Horseshoe is... the flippin' border is closed... at least at this writing.) So here we are, left wondering. As to radio and TV ... getting back to matters that relate to this board ... Buffalo television and radio stations generate revenue primarily from the Buffalo Metro. As such, at least in relation to size, we're back to being a small market.

One additional note, the Pegulas want a 60 thousand seat stadium. That's roughly 11 thousand fewer seats than the present facility. It's fair to say ticket prices will increase substantially. But the NFL isn't dependent on gate receipts. It has a mega-billion dollar deal (over ten years) tied to national televised broadcast rights. Clearly, the NFL knows it's very likely to become a primarily TV and video platform league. No need for 71 thousand seat stadiums in that regard.

 

[TheBigA]

As such, at least in relation to size, we're back to being a small market.

It really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is that the team simply isn't very good, and hasn't been good for a long time.

People watch the other small market teams because they're good, have name stars, and perennially end up in the playoffs.

If the NFL wants Buffalo to pull its weight, they need to find a way to get stars to play there.

 

[tbolt909]

It really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is that the team simply isn't very good, and hasn't been good for a long time.

People watch the other small market teams because they're good, have name stars, and perennially end up in the playoffs.

If the NFL wants Buffalo to pull its weight, they need to find a way to get stars to play there.

What small markets do you mean? Green Bay has a legacy. Aaron Rodgers has been there a long time, although he may leave next year.
Jacksonville has been mostly mediocre in the last 20 years. The Bills have had only one very good season in 20 years. New Orleans won a Super Bowl and had many good years with Drew Brees. Each instance is different.

New England dominated for 20 years drawing huge ratings. They were the exception to the rule in a parity driven league. Dallas has been mediocre, but they get as many prime time games as anyone. There are many variables. Players know they will make more endorsement money in big markets. You are correct that the NFL wants "stars" for the national games. It is entertainment after all...

 

[Buddy Shula]

Yes I know. I clearly referenced that in my post.

In case you missed it: "Of course the state or county will reap the benefits from the stadium,"

If there a bond floated, the people will vote on it. But there are other ways to finance a stadium. So we'll see.

But my point, to tie this back to radio, is that radio stations operate under similar public-private partnership rules. Buddy doesn't give a percentage of his profits to the FCC. Although he does pay a fee. That's how the stadium would operate.

I do pay a percentage of profits to ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, SOUNDEXCHANGE

 

[TheBigA]

I do pay a percentage of profits to ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, SOUNDEXCHANGE

It's what the law requires, and in that way, they're also partners.

 

[SirRoxalot]

It really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is that the team simply isn't very good, and hasn't been good for a long time.

People watch the other small market teams because they're good, have name stars, and perennially end up in the playoffs.

If the NFL wants Buffalo to pull its weight, they need to find a way to get stars to play there.

What Bills team are you watching? Have you been paying attention for the last three years? They were one game away from the Super Bowl last year and are picked by most observers to be near or at the top of the league again this year. Your comment smacks of the "Michigans" debacle of a few years ago. Even bad voice-trackers would be aware that the Bills are GOOD, and Josh Allen is a top-3 quarterback who IS attracting stars like last year's #1 receiver Stefon Diggs and now Emmanuel Sanders to play here. The Bills are developing - and keeping - their own stars.

 

[TheBigA]

What Bills team are you watching? Have you been paying attention for the last three years?

How many prime time games do they get a year? Two? If you're not on in prime time, you don't exist.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

It really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is that the team simply isn't very good, and hasn't been good for a long time.

People watch the other small market teams because they're good, have name stars, and perennially end up in the playoffs.

If the NFL wants Buffalo to pull its weight, they need to find a way to get stars to play there.

You've just been laughed out of the room.

The team has been to the playoffs three out of the last four years.
The QB garnered the second highest number of ballots for league MVP last season.

 

[SirRoxalot]

How many prime time games do they get a year? Two? If you're not on in prime time, you don't exist.

They've got at least four prime-time games this year. They had three prime time playoff games - two in Buffalo last year - and five prime-time games in the regular season (one thanks to Covid issues with their opponent). They exist for people who actually watch football.

 

[tbolt909]

Until last year, The Bills have been "Persona Non Grata" as the title of this thread says since the mid 90s. We will see if last year was a fluke. The expanded playoff format keeps more teams in the mix up until the end.
The late Pete Rozelle wanted parity in the NFL.

These days more people probably care about the players on "their" Fantasy team, rather than an actual team. People are watching for specific players for wagering purposes. That's why Audacy is gambling that "The Bet" sports format will bring in some revenue. Radio and luckless bettors have much in common...

 

[SirRoxalot]

If you look at broadcast ratings locally for the Buffalo Bills you'll find that they are consistently the highest rated programming in the market - home or away. That was true before legalized sports betting and fantasy football, good season or bad. In good seasons, their broadcast ratings break records. We have a very good team and it's being built to be very good for a long time. They have never been "persona non grata" locally, and have expanded their national presence for three years in a row. It looks like we finally have a regime in charge that understands the modern game and the modern era of team-building. Now, if they could only find a similar regime for the Sabres.

 

[TheBigA]

They exist for people who actually watch football.

Given a choice between the Bills and the Chiefs, the Chiefs are a more exciting team for TV.

And I don't live in Kansas City, nor am I a fan of them as a team. It's just a better show. Just my opinion.

While on this subject, Arrowhead Stadium is 50 years old. Yes it's been renovated a few times, but no one is threatening them with leaving Kansas City over their stadium.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Given a choice between the Bills and the Chiefs, the Chiefs are a more exciting team for TV.

And I don't live in Kansas City, nor am I a fan of them as a team. It's just a better show. Just my opinion.

While on this subject, Arrowhead Stadium is 50 years old. Yes it's been renovated a few times, but no one is threatening them with leaving Kansas City over their stadium.

You just keep piling it up on yourself, don't you? Kansas City spent nearly Billion dollars upgrading their stadium over time and it is a very different design than Bills stadium. Major renovations completely updated integrated systems and - more importantly - the design allowed the addition of much larger concourses for fans, much better amenities, and spaces for in-stadium services that simply can't be configured into the current Bills stadium configuration. There's plenty of articles about why renovation is impractical for Bills stadium. Kansas City spent the money over time so there's no reason for the Chiefs to consider leaving. What happened to the Chargers, Raiders, and the Cardinals when localities decided to NOT provide adequate stadium facilities?

As for the Chiefs, they've been a force since they got Patrick Mahomes. The Bills have a QB who was second to Aaron Rodgers in MVP voting last year - ahead of Mahomes. The Bills are in the conversation with the Chiefs for best in the AFC - at least for those who know ANYTHING about NFL football.

 

[tbolt909]

Given a choice between the Bills and the Chiefs, the Chiefs are a more exciting team for TV.

And I don't live in Kansas City, nor am I a fan of them as a team. It's just a better show. Just my opinion.

While on this subject, Arrowhead Stadium is 50 years old. Yes it's been renovated a few times, but no one is threatening them with leaving Kansas City over their stadium.

The Chiefs have played in the last two Super Bowls. They won one and lost last year. Of course, they are one of the hot teams right now.

The Bills are "expected" to contend. They have to prove it on the field first. Back to stadium issue-- The Bills just stated they won't renew the stadium lease. That means Buffalo must build a new stadium. The league won't block relocation if it comes to that...