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Audio Processing in New York City

W

wmgcbs

Guest
I was originally hesitant in starting this topic, but the more I scan around the NYC FM dial, the more I'm curious as to what everyone else in NYC thinks of the audio processing of NYC radio stations on the main analog signal (no HD, no Internet streams). What do you think sounds good? What do you look for in a station's audio processing?

It seems that over the past year or two, quite a few NYC stations have changed their audio processing.

My opinions:
The good in NYC:

I have to say that there are no stand-outs for SUPERIOR audio quality. Last year, I would have chosen one with no problems, but obviously, things change... Other markets have impressed me more than NYC has of late.

*RXP: I think that they have a very nice clean sound which brings out their music quite well. You can really feel the music when you turn it up and blast it (if that's your thing...). I never really get fatigued by the sound, although it can be a bit much at times.

*Fresh: Ever since WWFS signed on, I have always enjoyed their processing. It's not harsh at all, and it seems that recently, they have tweaked it (added a pre-processor, maybe?). It helps to bring out more in the music, and the tweaks seem to sound decent. Right now, "What Hurts the Most" sounds fantastic, as does "Apologize," both of which have played as I am writing this thread.

The "could use some improvement" department:

*WLTW. C'mon, guys. When a DJ is on after a music set or there is a soft passage in the music (AKA the beginning of Journey's "Lights," the opening of Stevie Wonder's "You Are the Sunshine of My Life") or any time there is a break in the music, a high-pitched, shrill noise can be heard (I especially notice it in my car). It isn't overly obvious, but it exists nonetheless. And the intro of Green Day's "Good Riddance?" Yikes. But, I have to say that I heard "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" over the weekend and turned it up. Sounded great, as does "Bleeding Love" on 'LTW. However, sometimes the station can sound muffled, like there's something missing.

*As much as it pains me to say it: CBS-FM. Ever since the introduction of the Ariane (I think that was in July), I just haven't been "digging it." Some songs, like "Working My Way Back to You" by the Four Seasons and "Crimson and Clover" sounded much better without the extra processing. I won't even go into Motown and "Long Cool Woman." Whatever pre-processing does for Fresh (if that is what they have done at 102.7) might work for newer music, but I prefer the old sound of CBS-FM without the pre-processor for the classic hits. Sorry. "Pleasant Valley Sunday" is on right now. I don't recall the original recording being that great anyway, but what is coming out of my radio isn't even close to great. The mics still sound muffled, too. The minuses for me of the new processing far outweigh the plusses. Big time.


I've read of complaints about Z100, and their sound seems to jive pretty well with the songs they play. It can be a bit thumpy at times, and I heard the morning show play the intro to EWF's "September" the other morning, and it certainly didn't suit THAT song. But, then again, they played it just for fun.

Well, I've vented. *sigh* I guess I'm just old-fashioned with the way I like my FM radio sounding, and all of the newer technology just turns me off - I'm just frustrated that so many smaller markets seem to employ audio processing whichI prefer.

Sometimes I feel the old-fashioned way is the better way.
 
CBS-FM, in the old days sounded terrible with reverb trying to replicate WABC because
they didn't know how to set it and there was something missing in the audio chain.
CBS-FM, today is even worse because the audio is flat and dead. I have included a video and audio example of the way 60s music and djs should be processed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTFGOCi8ReE
 
WMG - I agree with most of your observations.

One station that I feel isn't processed very well is KTU...it sounds quite distorted and way overcompressed to me. PLJ is another one....the audio is just too crunched up!

I would say that overall the most well-processed cluster of stations in the NYC area are the Emmis stations...Hot 97, Kiss and RXP all sound very good to me.

Overall though, the impression that I get is that NYC stations lack a lot of "punch" in their processing...a certain crispness seems to be lacking in the sound of many stations. I don't know if it's just me or if anyone else has noticed that.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased as I loved the station, but back in the day, 92.7 WLIR had a killer audiochain despite their limited signal. The other TMO stations on LI also had great audio...98.5 The Bone and Party 105, but in recent years they really seem to have let their engineering fall by the wayside.
 
hot 97 has terrible processing and I mean terrible sometimes it sounds as if they are mics came out of a dish washer
 
neo11 said:
I would say that overall the most well-processed cluster of stations in the NYC area are the Emmis stations...Hot 97, Kiss and RXP all sound very good to me.
Click to expand...

I agree. I used to think that the best processed stations were those belonging to CBS Radio, but over the past year, they have altered those stations drastically.

neo11 said:
Overall though, the impression that I get is that NYC stations lack a lot of "punch" in their processing...a certain crispness seems to be lacking in the sound of many stations. I don't know if it's just me or if anyone else has noticed that.
Click to expand...

Crispness is almost nonexistant on NYC radio. About a month ago, I drove down to the Carolinas, and I was more impressed by stations in rural PA and VA than I am with NYC stations; it's really frustrating. We're living in Market #1, yet the stations sound terrible. Stations down in Myrtle Beach, Charlotte, and Roanoke blew me away. Maybe it was just because I'm so used to the NYC processing.

On the weekends, I listen to NJ 101.5 in Jersey just to avoid the NYC stations... even if I have to sit through "Brandy" and Springsteen WAY too much. WLTW and CBS-FM used to be my most listened-to stations. But, I find them both to be almost unlistenable at times, and it drives me crazy that last year upon CBS-FM's return, the station sounded fantastic compared to quite mediocre right now. Oh, well. If it only drives one listener away from the station, they're not going to care. But it saddens me that I can't truly enjoy one of my all-time favorite stations anymore.

Bottom line... and I repeat... too much processing is just that. Too much. And I guess NYC people just don't get it. Take a listen to some classic hits and AC stations out-of-market on FM. Come back to NYC, and you'll surely be disappointed.
 
i know what u mean talking about processing in the south..........................

In roanoke, VA the wheeler stations sound ggggrrrreeeaaattt!!!!!!! star, q, k92------ all sound excellent! they all have reverb on the airchain which make them sound "old skool" they all use omnia processors too, i can tell.

in greensboro, nc i feel the entercom Stations sound good. 987 simon fm sounds very wide which i like.


has anyone heard any of the stations or want to add to the list??????????????






I Win!
 
Radio_Winner said:
i know what u mean talking about processing in the south..........................
In roanoke, VA the wheeler stations sound ggggrrrreeeaaattt!!!!!!! star, q, k92------ all sound excellent! they all have reverb on the airchain which make them sound "old skool" they all use omnia processors too, i can tell.
Click to expand...

Funny... Q99 is the station that always stood out to me as punchy and superb. But, reverb on the airchain? Really? Well, if it works...
 
yeah------------they have the ole' reverb on the chain..................................................

it doesnt sound bad though at first I was a like, "meh, dont know about this" but after listening a little while longer i liked it. everyone else seems to too cause Wheeler is always top o' the heap............ speaking which the ratings for roanoke come out today at 5PM. we shall seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1




I Win!
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
CBS-FM, in the old days sounded terrible with reverb trying to replicate WABC because
they didn't know how to set it and there was something missing in the audio chain.
CBS-FM, today is even worse because the audio is flat and dead. I have included a video and audio example of the way 60s music and djs should be processed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTFGOCi8ReE
Click to expand...

Oh my God, Ricky the K? That's very funny.
 
luperm said:
I've always appreciated WQXR's processing. It deals rather well with the quiet passages.
Click to expand...

That is a good point as well. Although I'm not a regular 'QXR listener, whenever I do tune in, I never find myself disappointed. Oh, well. I guess we just have to deal with the processing that dominates most of NYC radio, outside of the Emmis stations (and maybe Q104). Whose decision is it with regards to what the station sounds like? The GM, PD, or is it all the engineering staff? That's why there's one thing I'm not doing is pointing the fingers at certain people. I don't want to blame people who aren't at fault.

But, whoever it is, I don't get how they think 106.7, 101.1, 92.3, and 95.5 sound good. I think even DRC in Hartford sounds better (at least the last time I was up there last year).
 
wmgcbs said:
That is a good point as well. Although I'm not a regular 'QXR listener, whenever I do tune in, I never find myself disappointed. Oh, well. I guess we just have to deal with the processing that dominates most of NYC radio, outside of the Emmis stations (and maybe Q104). Whose decision is it with regards to what the station sounds like? The GM, PD, or is it all the engineering staff? That's why there's one thing I'm not doing is pointing the fingers at certain people. I don't want to blame people who aren't at fault.

But, whoever it is, I don't get how they think 106.7, 101.1, 92.3, and 95.5 sound good. I think even DRC in Hartford sounds better (at least the last time I was up there last year).
Click to expand...

I am pleased with the direction CBS-FM's audio is going. While there are still a few things to flesh out on the transmitter side, I am happy with the studio end, where levels are more consistant and elements flow effortlessly.

I think our audio stands up to WAXQ and WRXP, two stations you mention... and even adds a little thump in the low end. Both RXP and AXQ are processed by two excellent engineers who know their audio.

Please feel free to contact me offline. I would like to hear more details about what you don't like.
 
To WGLIRADIO.....Say what you want to about Ricky the K, but, the videos indicate that the audio processing on his show is far superior to the audio processing on CBS-FM, XM or Sirius, or the combined company. Also, not to mention, that Ricky the K plays all the music that CBS-FM used to play but, doesn't play anymore and at a fraction of the cost of XM or Sirius. Here is a link to a national Fox Newschannel story on him and his show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8XT8UnIzBo&fmt=18 and I have seen various newspaper stories about him and his show in the New York Daily News, Toronto Sun, San Diego Union Tribune, Kansas City Star, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Fort Worth Star Telegram, Miami Herald, Tampa Tribune, St. Petersburg Times and other major papers. I also saw a full page story on him in Radio and Records back when he was on 50000 watt KOMA. He must be doing something right and certainly a lot more right than CBS-FM, XM or Sirius, both musically and from an audio processing point of view as well as personality. Are you listening Andrea?
 
wmgcbs said:
neo11 said:
Bottom line... and I repeat... too much processing is just that. Too much. And I guess NYC people just don't get it. Take a listen to some classic hits and AC stations out-of-market on FM. Come back to NYC, and you'll surely be disappointed.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed and you don't even have to go all THAT far out of market! The Clear Channel Stations in the Sussex, NJ market sound nothing short of SUPERB!!! Say what you want about the company itself but clearly (in this market at least) the sound-quality of their on-air product accounts for something. I guess it comes down to some basics: It's NOT necessarily who has the biggest or most expensive audio-chain but rather who KNOWS WHAT TO DO WITH IT and how to CALIBRATE it!! They have a good crisp sound, namely 102.3 WSUS which I can get in Passaic County... it BLOWS 106.7 right out of the water and with a Class A signal! They even have an AM Oldies station that runs Scott Shannon's True Oldies format which sounds incredible... the highs, the lows, and just the right amount of bass. Check it out I'm sure you will concur with my findings! Kudos to the Engineering Staff!!

;D
Click to expand...
 
wgliradio said:
Please feel free to contact me offline. I would like to hear more details about what you don't like.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Will do. I just sent a PM your way...
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
To WGLIRADIO.....Say what you want to about Ricky the K, but, the videos indicate that the audio processing on his show is far superior to the audio processing on CBS-FM, XM or Sirius, or the combined company. Also, not to mention, that Ricky the K plays all the music that CBS-FM used to play but, doesn't play anymore and at a fraction of the cost of XM or Sirius. Here is a link to a national Fox Newschannel story on him and his show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8XT8UnIzBo&fmt=18 and I have seen various newspaper stories about him and his show in the New York Daily News, Toronto Sun, San Diego Union Tribune, Kansas City Star, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Fort Worth Star Telegram, Miami Herald, Tampa Tribune, St. Petersburg Times and other major papers. I also saw a full page story on him in Radio and Records back when he was on 50000 watt KOMA. He must be doing something right and certainly a lot more right than CBS-FM, XM or Sirius, both musically and from an audio processing point of view as well as personality. Are you listening Andrea?
Click to expand...

If you put a pair of Gates Solidstatemen limiters on NYC radio today, or a Fairchild etc, the pre-emphasis distortion would be unbearable if you wanted to run it EVEN CLOSE to where, lets say, WNYC is. These limiters do not have the overshoot protection and your average modulation would be slightly better than 55-60% tops on a totally rebuilt pair. You would all be complaining about muddy records (wideband, no consistancy in tonal balance), IM distortion (the units pumping bass from disco records and anything made after the introduction of the Aphex Aural Exciter to the music industry), and the fact that it sounded thickly processed and low... plus the distortion from microphones, no management of the pre-emphasis curve... etc

Internet streaming is one thing, FM audio quite another. I am not a huge fan of digital audio processors, I think in alot of cases, digital audio processors take out the warmth that you had with the Orban 8100/XT2.
 
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