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Groove1670
Guest
Does anyone know some of the processors that are in use (Orban Omnia Etc). In Mobile Pensacola. Thanks.
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Since I live in the region now, I'd be interested to learn about this as well.
I've always though Mobile/Pensacola's stations were pretty standard "a little too loud and mushy" with the lone exception of 94.1, which when I was a kid was the quietest station on the dial. They're more competitive now but still not into the loudness wars.
I've always though Mobile/Pensacola's stations were pretty standard "a little too loud and mushy" with the lone exception of 94.1, which when I was a kid was the quietest station on the dial. They're more competitive now but still not into the loudness wars.
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Groove1670
Guest
The only station that has a clean and fairly uncompressed sound is WDLT Mobile. Everyone else is loud and compressed to the max.
I've often wondered this myself. The last time I was at the beach, i100 sounded to me almost like it was running a Vorsis box or one of the DSPX models based on the combination of high-end emphasis and compression. WABB to my ear is almost definitely an Omnia product of some sort. I may be completely wrong about both stations but I agree with others that Mobile/Pensacola is pushing it to 11 when it really isn't necessary.
I remember a few years ago when WABB had their processor tuned better than 90 percent of the stations in Alabama. It had a rich, smooth sound that was consistently loud but never harsh (my description sounds like a cigarette ad). Not sure what happened but it was pretty rough the last time I listened.
I remember a few years ago when WABB had their processor tuned better than 90 percent of the stations in Alabama. It had a rich, smooth sound that was consistently loud but never harsh (my description sounds like a cigarette ad). Not sure what happened but it was pretty rough the last time I listened.
When I left WABB about 4 years ago they were using the latest Omnia with the newest Ariane in front of it. They were also using a T1 line for the STL. The T1 was the main reason for the clear sound.
For some reason I notice that the medium markets in the U.S. (ex:Mobile, Jackson MS & Memphis) to have the most agressive sounding processing. Is this because the PDs in these markets will do almost anything to get ahead, both of their competition and to a bigger market? Or could it me the people adjusting the processing have less knowledge about what the controls do and what tradeoffs are? I will grant you that many stations in the major markets (Los Angles, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta) have agressive processing, it just seems the people adjusting in those markets can hide the side effects better as a general rule. Also, in the medium markets, there may be some older boxes, like Orban 8200s, trying to compete with the latest and so being run harder.
I have no idea what anyone is presently running in Pensacola or Mobile but I can tell you what some of the stations were running in the late 1980's. I think the statute of limitations runs out after 20 years anyway. 104, when it was WIZD had a modified Orban 8100 that had been sped up. WJLQ had a 8100 with Audio Prizms ahead of it. I think they latter went to the original Omnia. WXBM had an 8100 with the XT chassis. 107.3, when it was WOWW, had a CRL system. WTKX had a Greg Labs five band FM box. I don't recall what WABB was running but it sounded good. Same for WKSJ. WZEW had an Orban 8100.
Bob
I have no idea what anyone is presently running in Pensacola or Mobile but I can tell you what some of the stations were running in the late 1980's. I think the statute of limitations runs out after 20 years anyway. 104, when it was WIZD had a modified Orban 8100 that had been sped up. WJLQ had a 8100 with Audio Prizms ahead of it. I think they latter went to the original Omnia. WXBM had an 8100 with the XT chassis. 107.3, when it was WOWW, had a CRL system. WTKX had a Greg Labs five band FM box. I don't recall what WABB was running but it sounded good. Same for WKSJ. WZEW had an Orban 8100.
Bob
This will no doubt bring the engineers out of the woodwork, but I gotta posit: do listeners REALLY notice the subtle differences in the way each station sounds? I'm especially thinking of loudness here. At this point, stations are all generally uniformly loud. Does it REALLY affect one's perception of a station if one is crushingly loud and the other is more reasonable?
I wouldn't think there's a whole lot of noise or interference to overcome in these markets, what with all our big signals on bigger sticks, so it's not like the loudness is needed to cover up static. So what purpose does it really serve? I remember when Birmingham's oldies station (106.9 WODL) flipped to classic hits as "The Eagle", someone came in and completely revamped the processing. It got much quieter, but the sound quality overall was stellar. Even being the radio nerd I am, I thought to myself, "I didn't know FM could sound this good!" They traded loudness for full spectrum reproduction and it was an eye-opener. Of course, that only lasted about six months, IIRC, before they changed it back to be loud as everyone else. But those few months, that was about the only station I listened to, and going back to higher levels spoiled me off radio for a while.
The reason I bring this up is because at the time I was working in an open industrial site where everyone had their own radio, and no one complained about them being too quiet (or Rock 99 suddenly seeming louder by comparison). In fact, in six years the only person who ever commented on the way any particular station sounded was a rap fan who commented that 95-7 Jamz "really thumps in my car compared to everyone else" — Jamz and sister station Kiss FM both trade loudness for robust lows and highs that really stands out for sounding so clean. (I think BLX also has traded some loudness for low end oomph, but I only have listened in HD which may be totally different processing.)
Granted, this is a very minor sample, but if anything it says to me that some folks will notice a less aggressively processed station, but won't notice subtle differences between two very loud competitors. So why bother?
I wouldn't think there's a whole lot of noise or interference to overcome in these markets, what with all our big signals on bigger sticks, so it's not like the loudness is needed to cover up static. So what purpose does it really serve? I remember when Birmingham's oldies station (106.9 WODL) flipped to classic hits as "The Eagle", someone came in and completely revamped the processing. It got much quieter, but the sound quality overall was stellar. Even being the radio nerd I am, I thought to myself, "I didn't know FM could sound this good!" They traded loudness for full spectrum reproduction and it was an eye-opener. Of course, that only lasted about six months, IIRC, before they changed it back to be loud as everyone else. But those few months, that was about the only station I listened to, and going back to higher levels spoiled me off radio for a while.
The reason I bring this up is because at the time I was working in an open industrial site where everyone had their own radio, and no one complained about them being too quiet (or Rock 99 suddenly seeming louder by comparison). In fact, in six years the only person who ever commented on the way any particular station sounded was a rap fan who commented that 95-7 Jamz "really thumps in my car compared to everyone else" — Jamz and sister station Kiss FM both trade loudness for robust lows and highs that really stands out for sounding so clean. (I think BLX also has traded some loudness for low end oomph, but I only have listened in HD which may be totally different processing.)
Granted, this is a very minor sample, but if anything it says to me that some folks will notice a less aggressively processed station, but won't notice subtle differences between two very loud competitors. So why bother?
Zach said:
Zach, you make a great point. A lot of people misunderstand the real purpose of a processor, and honestly as a young PD I used to not understand it either. Processors are most effective when they're used to color the sound of your station, not to smash it. In Birmingham, stations like Jamz and Kiss have implemented this concept well.
You're not accomplishing anything by destroying the sound so that you can be the loudest, especially in medium and small markets where stations often have no competing formats. In fact it can be quite counterproductive in a market like Mobile/Pensacola where there is a tendency to overemphasize the highs, resulting in nails-on-chalkboard clipping particularly on live voice. I experimented with processing a lot but ultimately opted for consistency from cut to cut so that there aren't large dips or rises in the sound level. You can be "consistent" and still sound great without being the loudest thing on the dial.
To add to Bob's history lesson, WDLT 98.3 when I owned it 1986 to 1992 used an Optimod 8100. We had an older Optimod 8000 on the aux xmtr. When I acquired the station it came with Texar Audio Prizms, and although I thought the pretty colored lights were impressive, I wasn't convinced they did anything for us, so I sold them off.
As I recall, there wasn't much you could do with the 8100 except turn one pot anywhere from mid range to all the way up, to increase the compression. I recall a decade earlier at our station in Jackson Miss, we got an Optimod when they first came out, and it was considered to be light years ahead of the CBS Audimax Volumax we replaced.
As great as the 8000 was at the time, I recall doing an A-B comparison switching back and forth from the 8000 to the 8100, and even I could tell the difference... and I'm not known for having a great set of ears.
I remember a consulting engineer from New Orleans telling me the Prizms would make us listenable an additional 3 to 5 miles. As a Class A we needed the extra coverage, but I think he was repeating someone's sales pitch.
As I recall, there wasn't much you could do with the 8100 except turn one pot anywhere from mid range to all the way up, to increase the compression. I recall a decade earlier at our station in Jackson Miss, we got an Optimod when they first came out, and it was considered to be light years ahead of the CBS Audimax Volumax we replaced.
As great as the 8000 was at the time, I recall doing an A-B comparison switching back and forth from the 8000 to the 8100, and even I could tell the difference... and I'm not known for having a great set of ears.
I remember a consulting engineer from New Orleans telling me the Prizms would make us listenable an additional 3 to 5 miles. As a Class A we needed the extra coverage, but I think he was repeating someone's sales pitch.
Also, today, stations are dealing with music that is already extremely processed directly off the CDs. Take (with a few exceptions) any modern CD and rip it into a wav editor, and it almost looks like a solid square from the beginning of the song to the end, with the wavs clipped. Then take a pre-90's original master and rip it, and you will see a natural flow of the wav. It starts out low and rises and peaks at the hook of the song with no clipping, letting the radio station's processor do the work.
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Groove1670
Guest
Anyone still using a 8100 now in the market?
Dr. Bob said:
Didn't WOWW use a Gregg Labs 3 band in the early 80's? Prior to going to the CRL system.
Believe it or not WABB used a Harris MSP-100 in the early 80's that sounded pretty good.
Don't know what they used in the late 80's.
That's so true. It's one of the reasons, I hate to admit, that I avoid buying a lot of new music. It just sounds so fatiguing. And when I buy older material, I seek out the unremastered original pressings. An exception to this has been the Beatles re-releases, but even then the music was excessively tampered with and is much louder than originally released.
It's one thing to process radio audio to overcome car noise and small transistor radio speakers, but another to force that onto consumers from the get-go at purchase. Just as I couldn't listen to WABB for any length of time before my ears hurt, the same with the majority of that music on CD or mp3 download.
It's a shame no one else seems to notice, or care.
It's one thing to process radio audio to overcome car noise and small transistor radio speakers, but another to force that onto consumers from the get-go at purchase. Just as I couldn't listen to WABB for any length of time before my ears hurt, the same with the majority of that music on CD or mp3 download.
It's a shame no one else seems to notice, or care.
[/quote]
Didn't WOWW use a Gregg Labs 3 band in the early 80's? Prior to going to the CRL system.
Believe it or not WABB used a Harris MSP-100 in the early 80's that sounded pretty good.
Don't know what they used in the late 80's.
[/quote]
You know something that not many others know but yes they has the Gregg 2530 tri-band with a Aphex 300 Compellor ahead of them. That version of the Gregg didn't handle pre-emphasis especially well; the CRL was better with early distributed clipper. The station also had a BE FX-30 exciter, which was state of the art for its time. I seem to remember the Gregg & CRL system was fed into the test input of an Orban 8000 for the stereo generator. I know that not too long after we obtained the first CRL, we purchased a ROOD stereo generator. It was from Europe, had a patented method of stereo generation using a sine wave switching method, and had better specs that any American stereo generator at the time; something like 70 dB of separation.
Thinking about it, in the latter 80's WABB may have had Audio Prizms on the air at one point.
I know WNVY had a Gregg 2530 on the air during the late 80's with WHYM and WBSR having Orban 9100's
Bob
Bob
Didn't WOWW use a Gregg Labs 3 band in the early 80's? Prior to going to the CRL system.
Believe it or not WABB used a Harris MSP-100 in the early 80's that sounded pretty good.
Don't know what they used in the late 80's.
[/quote]
You know something that not many others know but yes they has the Gregg 2530 tri-band with a Aphex 300 Compellor ahead of them. That version of the Gregg didn't handle pre-emphasis especially well; the CRL was better with early distributed clipper. The station also had a BE FX-30 exciter, which was state of the art for its time. I seem to remember the Gregg & CRL system was fed into the test input of an Orban 8000 for the stereo generator. I know that not too long after we obtained the first CRL, we purchased a ROOD stereo generator. It was from Europe, had a patented method of stereo generation using a sine wave switching method, and had better specs that any American stereo generator at the time; something like 70 dB of separation.
Thinking about it, in the latter 80's WABB may have had Audio Prizms on the air at one point.
I know WNVY had a Gregg 2530 on the air during the late 80's with WHYM and WBSR having Orban 9100's
Bob
Bob
Yes, WABB had the Prisms/8100 combo on the air from the late 80's into the late 90's. As of 4 years ago that was still the backup airchain.
Dr. Bob said:
Haven't heard that name in a while. It did have phenomenal specs for the period.
Seems I remember a friend using one in El Paso.
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