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Audio Processing Pros and Cons

R

RadioMan203

I've got a situation that I need to hear the pros and cons from other veterans on.

A friend of mine and I have a freelance radio client who wants to revamp their audio chain. they want to keep on the lower side of the cost barrier and get "good" to "better" audio performance.

In the discussion phase I had mentioned going with a leveler such as the Sequel but the folks with the pursestrings wanted to know why they needed a pre-processor as expensive as their choice of final processing (Omnia 1). I'm wondering if I should just steer them into something along the lines of a Compellor? Can someone give me some real robust reasoning to go with something more sophisticated than a Compellor? Perhaps someone will out in their 2 cents about another box or set of boxes we're not aware of or considering.

I'm all ears for your suggestions.
 
I think you are opening yourself to more questions for this particular application:

1. AM or FM Station? Format? (Personally I wouldn't put anything in front of any FM processor, but would for AM)

2. Is the final processor at studio or transmitter? (Then Arrianne or Compellor would be recommended by me) I use compellors at all my AMs.

Just some thought starters.
 
Great questions to help. Target station is FM but the folks may consider doing something similar with their AM depending on budget. Studios are co-located at transmitter so there's no STL to protect in either case.

Currently the FM has an Aphex FM 2020 Mark I (yes, the older version) and they don't seem keen on spending $1100 to upgrade it to a MK III for a variety of reasons (improved technology and not wanting to invest in a dated and older piece which may be prone to failure, etc).

Just for reference AM has an old CRL mono box feeding an Inovonics 222 into a solid state AM (I think Harris - I haven't seen it personally). I've have limited interaction with the client but my friend who is directly working with them has the ear of the people with the money and final decision power.
 
Then there's really only one way to go...get demos of everything...and run 'em side by side and buy the best one. If you're trying to stay on the low cost side of things, you really can't go wrong with an Omnia1.

IMHO, just an Omnia 6 would work wonders all by itself.

If they really want to go low-cost...build a nice rack mount server-class machine and get an excellent soundcard and purchase BreakawayBroadcast. It's virtually on par with anything else I've personally heard with my own two ears.
 
I started doing my homework and the fact that you can change the style of an Omnia One via a simple download makes it look quite appealing. Since I haven't had any hands-on with the One I'm looking to see what folks have had for experiences with it. The other question is whether or not a pre-processor is needed. There's a rather small possibility they might move the studio would could require an STL. I assume this would be the reason to consider a pre-processor, not to mention sloppy board-ops as well.

While the Breakaway software sounds good (I played with the beta during the development) the folks I'm dealing with believe in the old box o' lights and aren't too keen regarding a software-based solution.

BTW: Formats are a mix of oldies/talk (AM) and classic rock/oldies (FM).
 
Being on the side that usually has to come up with the cash (own two FM's) I would get an Omnia One for the FM processing/stereo geni, then look at simple fixes to the air chain before going into further processing. KISS principal at work. Just put in a "One" at a classical music station and am satisfied for the price. Run two Omnia 3's on my FM's--if I had unlimited funds would replace with an Omnia 6, as I've heard that box on a competitor. Then again, they run off hard drive loaded from CD's, while I use satellite feeds on my stations.

First question is where does the music programming come from?

For example (sticking with the FM): Does the music come from CD, hard drive, or satellite service? Console? Lots of questions once the processing/stereo geni is replaced.

For example, if the music comes off hard drive a better sound card may be most cost effective improvement. Or if they have a good quality sound card, but the music is a mixture of borrowed CD's and I-tunes downloads...well the simplest route to a sound improvement (pardon the pun) is remastering the library.

Another example--we use satellite for our music programming. Since it is already compressed to a degree in studio as well as data compressed (twice--T-1 to the uplink, some sort of STL link from NYC to the uplink, then another a/d conversion at the uplink) we don't need another a/d conversion before the final processing.
If I had the budget I would put a good analog AGC on the satellite feed, perhaps an Ariane. But I don't. What we can do is keep our local levels matched in level--we side-chain our local audio before mixing with the satellite feed.

On the AM, the Omnia One would also seem to be good choice. Other alternatives would be a used Orban 9100 or 9200. Again, questions, questions-- how much music, how much talk? And is the talk local or satellite?

We use POTS lines for sports broadcasts where we can't use our RPU gear. An Orban 424 and a $99 ART equalizer helps considerably. A Comrex or Tieline would also help--anyone got a spare $4K they would like to donate? An AM talker with lots of callers might benefit, for example, with a $99 eq on the caller audio to shape the sound to something less harsh and thin. An AM talker using a variety of satellite feeds may benefit more from a leveler to compensate for varying levels off different satellite source. Ideally, the leveler would feed the talk sources to the console, while the music source would be left alone.
 
If you end up using an Omnia.One, try it barefoot....especially if your studios & transmitters are co-located.

Before buying another box, try whatever processor you choose as-is, and - if the choice is Omnia.One, also try it with some of my presets, and go from there. Most of the time, less is more when it comes to processing, and carefully consider what it is you really want to do, and talk with the manufacturer about how to get the box sounding closest to what you are looking for.

After you try all avenues, you can then consider a pre-processor. I would not try a Compellor in front of the One. The One's wideband AGC is more than adequate. If the default Omnia.One AGC style doesn't float your boat, my presets give an entirely different dimension to explore.....

Multiband pre-processing could be interesting, but *really* get to know the other processor first.

-C
 
I really love the Cosmic preset in the Omnia 6 as a starting point for classic hits-based stations, haven't heard it in an Omnia 1, yet.
 
Bill DeFelice said:
I've got a situation that I need to hear the pros and cons from other veterans on.

A friend of mine and I have a freelance radio client who wants to revamp their audio chain. they want to keep on the lower side of the cost barrier and get "good" to "better" audio performance.

In the discussion phase I had mentioned going with a leveler such as the Sequel but the folks with the pursestrings wanted to know why they needed a pre-processor as expensive as their choice of final processing (Omnia 1). I'm wondering if I should just steer them into something along the lines of a Compellor? Can someone give me some real robust reasoning to go with something more sophisticated than a Compellor? Perhaps someone will out in their 2 cents about another box or set of boxes we're not aware of or considering.

I'm all ears for your suggestions.
Click to expand...

Bill, If the Omnia one is not set in stone then you could always demo a DSPXtra. It has the ariane built in and will cost significantly less than a two box solution. View it at www.audio-processor.com and if you need a no obligation demo let me know and I will arrange a demo.
Regards
Scott
 
I'd ask for demos at the same week or two week period and line em up - Okmnia, DSPX, the Breakaway, and the Vorsis product, and the smaller Orban and see if I couldn't set them up so they could be swapped in and out of the audio chain quickly. Tweak and test, tweak and test, tweak and test. And go for the one that does the best job for you.
And in all fairness, I'd ask my normal supplier to try to arrange the demos. That way, he gets the sale for the time and trouble he's put in.
 
I gotta thank everybody for all the excellent points and suggestions. I'm going to have my point man (my friend who is working directly with the station) to book demos of the processing that management would consider from a price standpoint. There are some that have been mentioned that we weren't aware of, so we'll add them to the list.

For the background some had asked about: all music for both AM and FM is computer-based and full bitrate .wav format (not mp3 format for music, some .wav and .mp3 for commercial content depending on sources). I believe there is a mix of AudioScience and M-Audio sound card hardware in the mix. AM talk is a mix of locally originated and bird-delivery. Consoles include Arrakis 1200 series, Autogram Pacemaker IIK and an older Wheatstone (don['t recall the exact model or vintage). BTW: just discovered they have an original Omnia AM in the closet which has a dead battery - appears to be working otherwise. Have no clue why is was taken out in place of the 222. The Aphex chain on the FM is far from competitive and sonically lacks definition.
 
I would proof the air chains before buying anything. The older consoles and things may have dried caps. I would shotgun everything. You may be surprised that the sonic qualities return after new caps.
 
Bill DeFelice said:
I gotta thank everybody for all the excellent points and suggestions. I'm going to have my point man (my friend who is working directly with the station) to book demos of the processing that management would consider from a price standpoint. There are some that have been mentioned that we weren't aware of, so we'll add them to the list.
Click to expand...

Demoing all processors within the budget is really the only way to select the best product for the job. Everything else is based on hearsay and opinions you've heard or read, which are in most cases based on more hearsay and more other people's opinions, rarely credible ones or even relevant. Don't believe the hype, keep an open mind and you might be surprised with the realities of what you find out...


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
FM and Goran make excellent points. The equipment you mention is capable of excellent performance as far as getting good audio out the back of the console. Pull the manuals, drop a couple hundred on DigiKey for caps and a pound of small guage solder, and replace all the caps. Then run some tones and do an intermod test. You ought to be able to tweak the gear up to basic supersonic response. Get the consoles nice and quiet, and then crankinabout 20dBof headroom. >then< start lining up proc boxes and comparing them. And if you get one which doesn't seem quite up to its press, call the manufacturer before you reject it out of hand. The differences when they're properly set are quite subtle but real. Go for the one which does what your client statio needs.
 
One other thing - when, some weeks from now, a decision is made and the gear installed, how about sharing with us the decision and the basis on which it was made. I realize that tells us only what worked the best in that particular circumstance for that particular station given those particular constraints, but I'd be interested.
 
littlejohn said:
One other thing - when, some weeks from now, a decision is made and the gear installed, how about sharing with us the decision and the basis on which it was made. I realize that tells us only what worked the best in that particular circumstance for that particular station given those particular constraints, but I'd be interested.
Click to expand...

I will gladly share the results of what they decide to go for as far as a processing decision goes. I think the idea of cleaning up the main signal path (new caps in console, etv) is an excellent one as well and will pass that along. If I get the chance to directly assist I usually take a single high-quality audio source and place it directly into a backup system (exciter or xmtr into dummy load) and listen off the mod monitor sample out until we're ready to try it out on the air - any pro or con against this instead of doing the tests hot on the air? I never really factored in if the antenna system plays any substantial role in audio performance with the exception of multipath.
 
I might get some setting ideas from a bench test, but face it, the thing is going on - air and is going to be responsible for the station's income. So, comparisons should be made with everything running like it usually does.
 
Bill, I know you don't have much budget, but if you can find a way to wangle (even borrow) a decent second exciter and a slightly leaky dummy load, I would highly recommend setting up any trial system on a separate, closed-circuit FM frequency.

You'd need to be able to get a good signal to a mod monitor to set things up, but, seriously, having the ability to directly A/B compare two signals on the same radio can be very revealing. And being able to do it without disrupting the normal program chain - or letting your competitors listen in on your experiments - is a bonus.

Even though the transmission systems won't be identical, the technique is extremely useful for basic instantaneous comparisons, and should allow all but the most subtle adjustments well before you place the new equipment on the 'real' air signal.

Obviously, you don't want to be radiating all over the place, but covering only the studio and only running for a limited time should keep you out of trouble.

Kind Regards,
David
 
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