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Audio processing

M

McCall

Guest
I'm wondering if stations in the market today are as caught up in tuning and tweaking the processing as they were in the past. It has been more than a few years ago, but when I was working in radio full time, we were always fiddling with the audio chain.

At WPRR in the early 90's, Scott St. John could never keep his hands off of the processing, much to the consternation of our engineer! Scott really enjoyed toying with the sound of the station. For a while, we had a reverb unit in the chain, which sounded kind of retro, but caused the processing to have fits.

When I started at WPRR in 1988, they were using something from CRL. Then we had Texar/Gentner Audio Prisms and an Optimod that had been hot-rodded by some out of town freelance engineer. He would come in overnight, have us play a lot of Steve Winwood, and do his thing. He swapped out some of the cards in the Optimod and tuned the Audio Prisms. Later, the station owner dumped the Prisms and replaced them with a six band limiter, which to me never sounded as clear or crisp or loud as the Prisms. 100.1 in Altoona is still running the 8100A and the six-band limiter, or at least they were when I pulled my last shift there in January 2004.

What is everybody in Altoona/State College running, and are they still making periodic tweaks?
 
103.1, 98.1, newer digital Optimod

107.9, 97.1 the little "cheapie" digital Optimod

95.3, 99.1, 101.1 the VERY expensive newer Omnia

105.9 the "cheapie" Omnia.

93.7 uses the same seven band modded up by Matt Lightner that WPRR has. Sound good on the Bus!

Forevers other stations are a mix of whatever was here or there.

94.3/94.7 Optimod 8000, circa 1979 last time I was there, NO KIDDING. I think that the stuff that Glen had put in when the station was still part his left with him.

Listen to OHP over the weekends and its funny to see how the exact same processor can sound different.




Alot still have the 8100s, you are right its hard to beat the prisms if they are set right. I think the downfall for them was that Glen sold out to Gentner and they changed them so much. I know of some BIG markets that use them still as kind of a pre chain smoothing EQ. Nobody admits it but they are still around. Its hard to get the boxes tweaked after them. People are lazy and its easy to unpack a Omnia and plug it in then push preset one. Some soung great.

> I'm wondering if stations in the market today are as caught
> up in tuning and tweaking the processing as they were in the
> past. It has been more than a few years ago, but when I was
> working in radio full time, we were always fiddling with the
> audio chain.
>
> At WPRR in the early 90's, Scott St. John could never keep
> his hands off of the processing, much to the consternation
> of our engineer! Scott really enjoyed toying with the sound
> of the station. For a while, we had a reverb unit in the
> chain, which sounded kind of retro, but caused the
> processing to have fits.
>
> When I started at WPRR in 1988, they were using something
> from CRL. Then we had Texar/Gentner Audio Prisms and an
> Optimod that had been hot-rodded by some out of town
> freelance engineer. He would come in overnight, have us play
> a lot of Steve Winwood, and do his thing. He swapped out
> some of the cards in the Optimod and tuned the Audio Prisms.
> Later, the station owner dumped the Prisms and replaced them
> with a six band limiter, which to me never sounded as clear
> or crisp or loud as the Prisms. 100.1 in Altoona is still
> running the 8100A and the six-band limiter, or at least they
> were when I pulled my last shift there in January 2004.
>
> What is everybody in Altoona/State College running, and are
> they still making periodic tweaks?
>
 
> I'm wondering if stations in the market today are as caught
> up in tuning and tweaking the processing as they were in the
> past. It has been more than a few years ago, but when I was
> working in radio full time, we were always fiddling with the
> audio chain.
>
> At WPRR in the early 90's, Scott St. John could never keep
> his hands off of the processing, much to the consternation
> of our engineer! Scott really enjoyed toying with the sound
> of the station. For a while, we had a reverb unit in the
> chain, which sounded kind of retro, but caused the
> processing to have fits.
>
> When I started at WPRR in 1988, they were using something
> from CRL. Then we had Texar/Gentner Audio Prisms and an
> Optimod that had been hot-rodded by some out of town
> freelance engineer. He would come in overnight, have us play
> a lot of Steve Winwood, and do his thing. He swapped out
> some of the cards in the Optimod and tuned the Audio Prisms.
> Later, the station owner dumped the Prisms and replaced them
> with a six band limiter, which to me never sounded as clear
> or crisp or loud as the Prisms. 100.1 in Altoona is still
> running the 8100A and the six-band limiter, or at least they
> were when I pulled my last shift there in January 2004.
>
> What is everybody in Altoona/State College running, and are
> they still making periodic tweaks?
>
Not sure what is at the transmitter site, as I understand that is where a LOT of the magic happens...but in the studios at Revolution 101 sits a nice matching pair of audio prisims Dave! And while I do not play with them personally, I have been know to point out if they need tweaking from time to time.

I thought that set of Prisms and the Optimod at PRR sounded incredible. They used to have an identical combo at WBHV when their transmitter was behind Damon's in State College on PSU land, and I spent many evenings there tweaking the sucker myself. I guess a little of Scott's way rubbed off on this old PRR guy!
 
>
> 95.3, 99.1, 101.1 the VERY expensive newer Omnia
>
> 105.9 the "cheapie" Omnia.
>
> 93.7 uses the same seven band modded up by Matt Lightner
> that WPRR has. Sound good on the Bus!

Forever might have made some changes to 100.1, because to my ear, 100.1 sounds much better than 99.1. Could it be that a twenty year old Optimod sounds better than a newer Omnia?

I remember trying to get Frank Foti's new "Black Box" from Cutting Edge when I was at WPRR. Nobody was willing to pony up the cash.
 
> >
> > 95.3, 99.1, 101.1 the VERY expensive newer Omnia
> >
> > 105.9 the "cheapie" Omnia.
> >
> > 93.7 uses the same seven band modded up by Matt
> Lightner
> > that WPRR has. Sound good on the Bus!
>
> Forever might have made some changes to 100.1, because to my
> ear, 100.1 sounds much better than 99.1. Could it be that a
> twenty year old Optimod sounds better than a newer Omnia?
>
> I remember trying to get Frank Foti's new "Black Box" from
> Cutting Edge when I was at WPRR. Nobody was willing to pony
> up the cash.
>
The thing that was great about WPRR's processing was that it was powered by John Super's can of air. Anything that was wrong, Super gave it a (BLEEP) and it was ok.
 
> > >
> > > 95.3, 99.1, 101.1 the VERY expensive newer Omnia
> > >
> > > 105.9 the "cheapie" Omnia.
> > >
> > > 93.7 uses the same seven band modded up by Matt
> > Lightner
> > > that WPRR has. Sound good on the Bus!
> >
> > Forever might have made some changes to 100.1, because to
> my
> > ear, 100.1 sounds much better than 99.1. Could it be that
> a
> > twenty year old Optimod sounds better than a newer Omnia?
>
> >
> > I remember trying to get Frank Foti's new "Black Box" from
>
> > Cutting Edge when I was at WPRR. Nobody was willing to
> pony
> > up the cash.
> >
> The thing that was great about WPRR's processing was that it
> was powered by John Super's can of air. Anything that was
> wrong, Super gave it a (BLEEP) and it was ok.
>
Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to fix) the broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he didn't order new ones.
 
> >
> Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to fix) the
> broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he didn't order
> new ones.
>

I remember those old Collins boards had a strange mix of buttons and switches. Some were push buttons and some were red flip switches. I don't know where he got them. Incidentally, when they abandoned the old building and moved everything over to Forever, WVAM was operating with the same old board. It's probably still there.

And the person who broke the most pots on the WPRR board? Anyone? Steve Hilton! We all hoped to get a new board and I think Steve was just trying to help us along. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by McCall on 06/09/05 02:11 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> > >
> > Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to fix)
> the
> > broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he didn't
> order
> > new ones.
> >
>
> I remember those old Collins boards had a strange mix of
> buttons and switches. Some were push buttons and some were
> red flip switches. I don't know where he got them.
> Incidentally, when they abandoned the old building and moved
> everything over to Forever, WVAM was operating with the same
> old board. It's probably still there.
>
> And the person who broke the most pots on the WPRR board?
> Anyone? Steve Hilton! We all hoped to get a new board and I
> think Steve was just trying to help us along.
>

HA HA...How nice of you to remember! Yes I recall I had this sort of flicking motion where I guess I slammed the POT too far back too fast. Super used to get so mad at me. At one point he said if I broke any more he would stop fixing them. I remember he had pulled a few out of Production to replace the ones in the studio cause he said that was it he was not buying any more. I also remember blowing many-a speakers in those kicking in-studio monitors too. When you are left all alone in the building and you can crank up the speakers loud as you please, these things will happen from time to time. :)

Man that poor guy probably wanted to kill me. Fortunately when I got to 103, they had the sliding type board, so it was impossible for me to break those.

Ahhh the memories!
 
> > > >
> > > Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to fix)
>
> > the
> > > broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he didn't
> > order
> > > new ones.
> > >
> >
> > I remember those old Collins boards had a strange mix of
> > buttons and switches. Some were push buttons and some were
>
> > red flip switches. I don't know where he got them.
> > Incidentally, when they abandoned the old building and
> moved
> > everything over to Forever, WVAM was operating with the
> same
> > old board. It's probably still there.
> >
> > And the person who broke the most pots on the WPRR board?
> > Anyone? Steve Hilton! We all hoped to get a new board and
> I
> > think Steve was just trying to help us along.
> >
>
> HA HA...How nice of you to remember! Yes I recall I had
> this sort of flicking motion where I guess I slammed the POT
> too far back too fast. Super used to get so mad at me. At
> one point he said if I broke any more he would stop fixing
> them. I remember he had pulled a few out of Production to
> replace the ones in the studio cause he said that was it he
> was not buying any more. I also remember blowing many-a
> speakers in those kicking in-studio monitors too. When you
> are left all alone in the building and you can crank up the
> speakers loud as you please, these things will happen from
> time to time. :)
>
> Man that poor guy probably wanted to kill me. Fortunately
> when I got to 103, they had the sliding type board, so it
> was impossible for me to break those.
>
> Ahhh the memories!
>
The strange mix of buttons on the Collins boards came from Super's assorted cigar casings. The white buttons were original Collins. But, from the time the boards were installed in 1980 (when the building was rebuilt after the fire) Super had trouble keeping the buttons from popping off---so rather than continue to order new replacements (mainly due to budget constraints), he salvaged the bottoms and tops off his cigar casings and found they fit perfectly on the board(s).
 
Here's a processing tip for the Rev.

Notice that Hiss they have in the audio. That's in the Analog STL shot from the studio to Days Inn. There is a digital link from Days In to the tx site. When they decide to pay up on the omnia, there is a digital STL sitting on a shelf waiting to replace that analog link thus getting rid of the hiss. I'll be shocked if it ever happens.

Also, if they have an Omnia at the tx site, they should not be running prisms at the studio in front of it. My guess though is that Bob Lynn took the Omnia off the air and is running an 8100 at the tx site with the prisms at the studio.

I heard a rumor a few years ago that they had a compeller hanging by the wires next to a window or something in the office over there. Carey must have nixed the PO for the rack screws!


> > > > >
> > > > Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to
> fix)
> >
> > > the
> > > > broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he didn't
>
> > > order
> > > > new ones.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I remember those old Collins boards had a strange mix of
>
> > > buttons and switches. Some were push buttons and some
> were
> >
> > > red flip switches. I don't know where he got them.
> > > Incidentally, when they abandoned the old building and
> > moved
> > > everything over to Forever, WVAM was operating with the
> > same
> > > old board. It's probably still there.
> > >
> > > And the person who broke the most pots on the WPRR
> board?
> > > Anyone? Steve Hilton! We all hoped to get a new board
> and
> > I
> > > think Steve was just trying to help us along.
> > >
> >
> > HA HA...How nice of you to remember! Yes I recall I had
> > this sort of flicking motion where I guess I slammed the
> POT
> > too far back too fast. Super used to get so mad at me.
> At
> > one point he said if I broke any more he would stop fixing
>
> > them. I remember he had pulled a few out of Production to
>
> > replace the ones in the studio cause he said that was it
> he
> > was not buying any more. I also remember blowing many-a
> > speakers in those kicking in-studio monitors too. When
> you
> > are left all alone in the building and you can crank up
> the
> > speakers loud as you please, these things will happen from
>
> > time to time. :)
> >
> > Man that poor guy probably wanted to kill me. Fortunately
>
> > when I got to 103, they had the sliding type board, so it
> > was impossible for me to break those.
> >
> > Ahhh the memories!
> >
> The strange mix of buttons on the Collins boards came from
> Super's assorted cigar casings. The white buttons were
> original Collins. But, from the time the boards were
> installed in 1980 (when the building was rebuilt after the
> fire) Super had trouble keeping the buttons from popping
> off---so rather than continue to order new replacements
> (mainly due to budget constraints), he salvaged the bottoms
> and tops off his cigar casings and found they fit perfectly
> on the board(s).
>
 
> 103.1, 98.1, newer digital Optimod
Along with 90.7, 91.5, 94.5, 98.7, 94.3&94.7 and 100.1
>
> 107.9, 97.1 the little "cheapie" digital Optimod
107.9 Has an Omnia 6 and 97.1 has a 8100 with the 6 band limiter (XT)
>
> 95.3, 99.1, 101.1 the VERY expensive newer Omnia
95.3 has an Orban 8400 (the most expensive one until a few months ago). 101.1 Has the mid-priced Omnia, although not on the air.
>
> 105.9 the "cheapie" Omnia.
>
> 93.7 uses the same seven band modded up by Matt Lightner
> that WPRR has. Sound good on the Bus!
Not anymore. It's a different one.
>
> Forevers other stations are a mix of whatever was here or
> there.
>
> 94.3/94.7 Optimod 8000, circa 1979 last time I was there,
> NO KIDDING. I think that the stuff that Glen had put in when
> the station was still part his left with him.
It's an 8200 now.
>
> Listen to OHP over the weekends and its funny to see how the
> exact same processor can sound different.
It's not the same processor. 99.1 Has the omnia 6 with the Hot plug-in. Rev has the Omnia 4.5 (if it's in use at all)
>
>
>
>
> Alot still have the 8100s, you are right its hard to
> beat the prisms if they are set right. I think the downfall
> for them was that Glen sold out to Gentner and they changed
> them so much. I know of some BIG markets that use them still
> as kind of a pre chain smoothing EQ. Nobody admits it but
> they are still around. Its hard to get the boxes tweaked
> after them. People are lazy and its easy to unpack a Omnia
> and plug it in then push preset one. Some soung great.
The Gentner prisms I've seen are identical except for the name.
>
> > I'm wondering if stations in the market today are as
> caught
> > up in tuning and tweaking the processing as they were in
> the
> > past. It has been more than a few years ago, but when I
> was
> > working in radio full time, we were always fiddling with
> the
> > audio chain.
> >
> > At WPRR in the early 90's, Scott St. John could never keep
>
> > his hands off of the processing, much to the consternation
>
> > of our engineer! Scott really enjoyed toying with the
> sound
> > of the station. For a while, we had a reverb unit in the
> > chain, which sounded kind of retro, but caused the
> > processing to have fits.
> >
> > When I started at WPRR in 1988, they were using something
> > from CRL. Then we had Texar/Gentner Audio Prisms and an
> > Optimod that had been hot-rodded by some out of town
> > freelance engineer. He would come in overnight, have us
> play
> > a lot of Steve Winwood, and do his thing. He swapped out
> > some of the cards in the Optimod and tuned the Audio
> Prisms.
> > Later, the station owner dumped the Prisms and replaced
> them
> > with a six band limiter, which to me never sounded as
> clear
> > or crisp or loud as the Prisms. 100.1 in Altoona is still
> > running the 8100A and the six-band limiter, or at least
> they
> > were when I pulled my last shift there in January 2004.
> >
> > What is everybody in Altoona/State College running, and
> are
> > they still making periodic tweaks?
> >
>
 
Cary is helping out while Ted is doing the chemotherapy. They still are using the Omnia. Seeing what the son has put into that station over the years it looks like they have top notch stuff now. I am sure that they might of had something laying on a rack for a few weeks. I guess we all have had to "make due for a while" sometimes and if not screwing in something to a rack is the worst thing in ten tears they have come a long way. I even heard of a radio engineer who runs his company out of a barn! Thats as bad as not putting rack screws in....


Here's a processing tip for the Rev.
>
> Notice that Hiss they have in the audio. That's in the
> Analog STL shot from the studio to Days Inn. There is a
> digital link from Days In to the tx site. When they decide
> to pay up on the omnia, there is a digital STL sitting on a
> shelf waiting to replace that analog link thus getting rid
> of the hiss. I'll be shocked if it ever happens.
>
> Also, if they have an Omnia at the tx site, they should not
> be running prisms at the studio in front of it. My guess
> though is that Bob Lynn took the Omnia off the air and is
> running an 8100 at the tx site with the prisms at the
> studio.
>
> I heard a rumor a few years ago that they had a compeller
> hanging by the wires next to a window or something in the
> office over there. Carey must have nixed the PO for the rack
> screws!
>
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > Anybody remember how John fixed (or what he used to
> > fix)
> > >
> > > > the
> > > > > broken buttons on the WPRR/WVAM boards? No, he
> didn't
> >
> > > > order
> > > > > new ones.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I remember those old Collins boards had a strange mix
> of
> >
> > > > buttons and switches. Some were push buttons and some
> > were
> > >
> > > > red flip switches. I don't know where he got them.
> > > > Incidentally, when they abandoned the old building and
>
> > > moved
> > > > everything over to Forever, WVAM was operating with
> the
> > > same
> > > > old board. It's probably still there.
> > > >
> > > > And the person who broke the most pots on the WPRR
> > board?
> > > > Anyone? Steve Hilton! We all hoped to get a new board
> > and
> > > I
> > > > think Steve was just trying to help us along.
> > > >
> > >
> > > HA HA...How nice of you to remember! Yes I recall I had
>
> > > this sort of flicking motion where I guess I slammed the
>
> > POT
> > > too far back too fast. Super used to get so mad at me.
>
> > At
> > > one point he said if I broke any more he would stop
> fixing
> >
> > > them. I remember he had pulled a few out of Production
> to
> >
> > > replace the ones in the studio cause he said that was it
>
> > he
> > > was not buying any more. I also remember blowing many-a
>
> > > speakers in those kicking in-studio monitors too. When
> > you
> > > are left all alone in the building and you can crank up
> > the
> > > speakers loud as you please, these things will happen
> from
> >
> > > time to time. :)
> > >
> > > Man that poor guy probably wanted to kill me.
> Fortunately
> >
> > > when I got to 103, they had the sliding type board, so
> it
> > > was impossible for me to break those.
> > >
> > > Ahhh the memories!
> > >
> > The strange mix of buttons on the Collins boards came from
>
> > Super's assorted cigar casings. The white buttons were
> > original Collins. But, from the time the boards were
> > installed in 1980 (when the building was rebuilt after the
>
> > fire) Super had trouble keeping the buttons from popping
> > off---so rather than continue to order new replacements
> > (mainly due to budget constraints), he salvaged the
> bottoms
> > and tops off his cigar casings and found they fit
> perfectly
> > on the board(s).
> >
>
 
Who SOUNDS the best?

So, after all this examination of equipment, which station or stations sound the best? That's the ultimate question, and the most subjective one, too. But to YOUR ears, whose audio processing is doing the best job?
 
Re: Who SOUNDS the best?

> So, after all this examination of equipment, which station
> or stations sound the best? That's the ultimate question,
> and the most subjective one, too. But to YOUR ears, whose
> audio processing is doing the best job?
>

I think 3WZ is the cleanest in State College. Carter Davis still does the imaging right?? or used to?? His voice is great..we had him in Elmira when i was there. Anyway, the REV's high's are out of control sometimes...but good. QWK's compression is sweet but I think the signal was better on 97.1...WOWY sounds alot better since moving to it. i think most all stations in the market sound good.
 
Re: Who SOUNDS the best?

> So, after all this examination of equipment, which station
> or stations sound the best? That's the ultimate question,
> and the most subjective one, too. But to YOUR ears, whose
> audio processing is doing the best job?

Q102 and WOGL in Philly are the cleanest, clearest stations I've ever heard. No hums, no buzzing.

Oh, but you probably meant here huh? As a whole, I think they all sound good.

Except...when any of these stations are live on remote. They all sound terrible. One would think that equipment to go out on live remote would be as good as what you use in a studio in order to give the client the best sound possible for their money.
 
Here's a question for you...Have you ever noticed where the Rev's studio's are located? That hiss u speak of that is there sometimes and sometimes not is a lot of diffent things:

1. The station is in a hole on the side of a hill.

2. Nextel has an attenna not more than 500 yards from the station.

3. The STL hop that u speak of to the Days Inn. Have you ever traced that. A Big TREE is in the way of making a clear shot.

But I forgot you know what you are talking about, since you have been at the station in the last 5 years, right?

The biggest problem the rev has is keeping the power on at the tx...Other than that I think they sound good under the circumstances.
 
Sounds great to me. I picked the revolution up for like 150 miles on I-80. Thats nuts.
 
The stations been around for a long time. Same family owners that put it on in 1961. Seems to me after visiting the place its all top notch. I have seen what was tossed together at the other stations in the area and its pityfull sometime. Rack screws, are you for real? You must of been there since you listed about fifty grand in NEW good equipment. I just dont hear it. I know if I had to deal with what the family has been thru I would of taken the millions and run. They have guts.
 
Re: Who SOUNDS the best?

Revolution is the loudest. It is hard to keep it clean with that format. It booms.Plus you can drive a zillion miles away and no fade, big power there. I think the Bus sounds clean and pure. Beaver a good mix of the two clean and loud. Signal issues on Buzz. I think Qwick sounds fake, somethings off there.
 
Re: Who SOUNDS the best?

You would also think that our customers would understand it is alot of work to drag that damn marti out set up the ariel for it. You test it call the engineer, blah blah.

Why do customers spend so much to have thier pictures on page 30 of the newspaper but balk at radio rates that could put them on every single staion in town screaming the message to all who can hear!
 
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