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Audio Processing?

Had the good fortune of having a business trip that kept me in the car for a couple of hours today - perfect for checking out the new lineup!

What caught my ear, though, was the difference in compression between the native XM channels and the "new" Sirius-based ones - the Sirius ones seemed to be more heavily compressed. I wasn't thinking about it until, while on some channels for a period of time, I noticed how tiring it was to listen to certain channels (not because of the content).

I know the old programmer in me always liked to push the Optimod, but are my ears deceiving me or is there a difference?
 
Serius is more hevelly compressed, but has better frequency responce. XM uses less compression but the responce chopps off very low. This is what I've noticed flipping back and force.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that both services should use Xm's processing with Serious's EQ settings. XM uses digital processing (as far as compressors, and limiters etc) from what I've been told, ware as Serius uses the anolog ones.
John
Bensalem, PA
 
I was listening to Classic Vinyl via XM and the audio quality was just plain awful!!!! Deep Tracks sounded ok, as usual and Sirius import Classic Rewind sounded ok as well. Classic Vinyl sounded about as good as a 24 bit MP3. The audio on both leaves a lot to be desired. But THIS was un-listenable.
 
THANK YOU MAXGM!
Here I thought I was the only one who thought the new Classic Vinyl sounded awful. I posted my thoughts under the "this lineup sucks" thread.
But bascially I always believed XM sounded very good, High Fidelity like. A warm, rich,clear sound. When they changed to Classic Vinyl the sound also changed, and not for the better. To me it sounds dull, unclear, muffled, like my speakers were covered with a blanket.
I called XM tech yesterday, and they had no clue what I was talking about.
I emaled XM yesterday too regarding the sound quality. Probably no one will read it, or do anything about it.
Frustrated I called Sirius today in NY and bitched real loud. They in turn blamed XM, claiming they had no idea what "THEY" did. When I explained its now 1 company and Classic Vinyl is a Sirius channel and demaded to speak to someone in engineering, they refused. But they put a supervisor on the phone, and I explained this is a pay service, and we pay for quality, sound included, and the new channel sounds awful. The supervisor said he will foward this to engineering and took my name and number.
I think if enough people call and or email or both, Sirius/XM will fianally understand theres a tech problem that needs to be resolved.
 
Honestly, I think alot of the channels sound better... don't sound so "tinny".
 
MaxGM said:
I was listening to Classic Vinyl via XM and the audio quality was just plain awful!!!! Deep Tracks sounded ok, as usual and Sirius import Classic Rewind sounded ok as well. Classic Vinyl sounded about as good as a 24 bit MP3. The audio on both leaves a lot to be desired. But THIS was un-listenable.

Well the channel is called Classic Vinyl after all. ::)
 
I wouldn't call XM High Fidelity. There is a ringing distorton on the highs. Maybe I have a cheap radio (Roady XT). Sometimes the distorton drives me up the wall.
 
Hopefully they will figure out why Terry Young's mic on the 60's on 6 is sometimes quite audible, but more often than not, it's buried in the music and when the music fades, his mic volume fades even further--bizarre effect. Been this way since I signed up with XM about 15 months ago. Never happens with Phlash or Marty or Pat. Wonder if he has some strange personalized mic EQ plugged in when he's in his 'regular' studio and he sounds better when he's forced to use an alternate studio?
 
I got the cheapest radio's i could, for both services when i got it last *um thinks* December? January of this year?
Anyways, I was told it didn't matter which radio I got, the sound quolity would be the same. So I put my money tward getting both services for years, rather then the more expensive radio's. I just wanted something I could hear the services on, plug into my mixer, etc. I can record airchecks, and don't need to record, rewind, etc from the radio itself.... The other thing that was a requirement is that I could use push buttens to queue in the numbers for the channels.
I've always thought Serious had better high's. I noticed that XM's highs decressed even more once they added the best of Serious package.
John
Bensalem, PA
 
In my opinion - XM has always sounded clearer and more intelligible (easier to understand) than Sirius, and on the higher bitrate channels (like KISS 21 and MIX 22) XM's sound is almost perfect.
To me, Sirius has always had a "muddy" sound to it, or muffled somehow. And I only hear a better high frequency response on Sirius on channels that they obviously give a higher bitrate (at least most of the time) such as Sirius Hits 1. At that bitrate, Sirius sounds fine to me. At low bitrates (traffic & weather) I would take XM's AMBE(R) codec any day over Sirius' low bitrate channels. The Sirius stations sound just as "gritty" as AM radio. XM's are obviously compressed, but still, generally listenable unless they attempt music.
 
Johnathan wrote: "...Sirius stations sound just as "gritty" as AM radio. XM's are obviously compressed..."

Nope, my AM station actually sounds better in CQuam AM stereo than any Sirius channel, and all but 4 XM channels.
The XM audio processing has gone to hell lately too - I'm ready to put tampons in my ears after listening for 4 hours!
 
According to a friend at XM, Sirius has tried for a more FM sound and they believe XM's sound is an issue with the platform overall. Super thick compression is what the company wants.....I guess dynamics are not important. Personally, I'm more of fan of XM's sound versus Sirius.
 
I think the moddel should be XM's dynamic compression with Serious's higher frequency responce.
Even at that though, AM Stereo/FM Stereo (with the FM's transmitting anolog only) still sound better then Serious.
John
Bensalem, PA
 
Mike Sheridan said:
I wouldn't call XM High Fidelity. There is a ringing distorton on the highs. Maybe I have a cheap radio (Roady XT). Sometimes the distorton drives me up the wall.

I would add a filter to the audio cable for get that high whine to go away. Crutchfield sells one. Worked great for my RoadyXT.
Look for the PAC SNI-1/3.5 Noise Filter.
 
kurtfoster said:
Mike Sheridan said:
I wouldn't call XM High Fidelity. There is a ringing distorton on the highs. Maybe I have a cheap radio (Roady XT). Sometimes the distorton drives me up the wall.

I would add a filter to the audio cable for get that high whine to go away. Crutchfield sells one. Worked great for my RoadyXT.
Look for the PAC SNI-1/3.5 Noise Filter.

Thanks, I tried a similar filter from Radio Shack but it didn't help, I may give the Crutchfield filter a try though. They do a lot to help car audio. The hone radio has the same distortion although it's not quite as bad.
 
It's always a shock to me after extended XM listening to jump over to FM or, heaven forbid, a CD and go "Wow, look at all that sound I've been missing!"

I listen to XM for the amazing variety of music available, and put up with the lack of fidelity.
 
gerald said:
It's always a shock to me after extended XM listening to jump over to FM or, heaven forbid, a CD and go "Wow, look at all that sound I've been missing!"

I listen to XM for the amazing variety of music available, and put up with the lack of fidelity.

I seems to have gotten better lately. Has anyone else noticed this?
 
Here is how the Sirius (spelled S-I-R-I-U-S) end of the company works technology wise. XM uses a different and some say more sophisticated method of transmission and receiving.

Sirius has three geosynchronous sats in elliptical orbits over the U.S between 14,900 and 29,200 miles. The sats are spaced eight hours from one another, and each satellite is over the U.S. for about 16 hours. All three transmit the same data.

Sirius is assigned 12.5 MHz of spectrum from 2320 to 2332.5 MHz centered on 2.32625 GHz (2326.25 MHz). This spectrum is roughly divided into thirds. One third is assigned to transmitting satellite #1 (TDM1) centered at 2322.3 MHz, one third to the terrestrial repeater network (more on that later) centered on 2326.25 MHz, and one third to transmitting satellite #2 (TDM2) centered on 2330.2 MHz. This gives each satellite roughly 4-MHz bandwidth. The sats use quadrature phase shift keying (QPSK) modulation. It's the most common for satellite communications, due to its robustness against signal degradation over long distances with minimal interference.

The receiver can receive and decode one, two, or all three signals simultaneously and recombine them internally into one signal. The receiver also accounts for phase delays (the satellites have large and constantly changing distances from the receivers), frequency shift (Doppler effects), and absolute time delays. (TDM1 is broadcast with an approximate 4-second delay from TDM2 and buffered internally, a Sirius patent.) Also, it accommodates a huge dynamic range. The receiver must work with a range of signals that are separated by more than a billion times the power of one another.

The data rate is approximately 7.5 Mbits/s. After accounting for overhead, including forward-error-correction coding (Reed-Solomon outer code and convolutional inner code) and encryption, we're left with an audio bit stream of about 4.4 Mbits/s. The bits stream may be broken down into as many substreams as required by the commercial system. The 4.4-Mbit/s bit stream has 100 channels, averaging 44 kHz each. But, each bit stream may be assigned its own unique bandwidth.

Talk channels, which require far less bandwidth than music, may be assigned a 24-kHz bandwidth and music channels may be assigned a 64k bandwidth. It can be any combination Sirius decides as long as it doesn't exceed the total bandwidth of around 4.4 Mbits/s. When combined with modern Perceptual Audio Codecs (PACs) and statistical multiplexing, the sound quality that the average listener perceives is far superior to today's FM radio stations. When combined with a further level of tuning, which considers the genre and fidelity of the original recordings (i.e., music recorded from albums made in the '50s or earlier hardly need the bandwidth of a modern classical recording), Sirius can offer a truly delightful experience.

With transmission distances so great and the desired coverage so broad, a receiver needs all the help it can get to pick up a usable signal. The techniques that usually take care of this problem are called receiver diversity. The Sirius system employs spatial, frequency, and time diversity to make sure an ample signal is always available.

The spatial diversity technique is patented and implemented in the form of at least two satellites in view at all times. Here, the receiver chooses the stronger signal. Frequency diversity comes from the use of three transmitting frequencies within the 12.5-MHz band. Time diversity is implemented by a special system patented by Sirius. This technique receives and stores four seconds of the signal in a receiver memory chip before feeding it to the speakers. Should you drive into a tunnel, beneath an underpass, or through a heavily wooded area, the stored data is usually sufficient to prevent the loss of a signal.

Even though Sirius' high-angle satellites provide an unusual high availability of service, it's just not enough in some areas. This is especially true in large cities with tall buildings and hundreds of obstructions that either block the signals completely or introduce multiple paths that erode signal strength. The Sirius system covers such gaps with an estimated 105 terrestrial repeaters in 50 U.S. cities.

The digital radio signal is uplinked to the Telstar 6 geostationary satellite operating in the 12-GHz Ku band. This satellite transmits the digital content to the terrestrial repeaters that rebroadcast them over a smaller area within the city on 2326.25 MHz as indicated earlier. The terrestrial repeaters use COFDM (coded orthogonal frequency division multiplexing) as their modulation scheme because it's more robust in complex multipath environments.

Finally, all space systems need some telemetry, command, and control. This is handled at the New York City studios, and the commands are sent to Mount Vernon, N.J., where they're uplinked to the satellites. Monitoring is accomplished at two fully automated and remotely controlled listening outposts in Quito, Ecuador and Utibe, Panama.

While the space segment of the Sirius system is by far the most expensive and complex, the receivers also presented a major challenge, along with substantial cost. Sirius hired Lucent to design the chip set that would form the basis for all auto and home radios. At one time, Lucent, now Agere Systems had as many as 100 designers working on the horrifically complex radio chip set.

Although the design is a superheterodyne, it's nothing like those we're most familiar with because of the diversity functions and other features. The chip set, originally packaged in seven chips, now uses four chips in its latest incarnation. Most of it is made with 0.14-µm biCMOS. An even newer version will use fewer chips that take advantage of the continuing smaller feature size and newer chip processing technologies.

The input chip houses the gallium-arsenide (GaAs) low-noise amplifier (LNA) and the down-conversion mixers. After the usual IF filtering and amplification in the second chip, the signal is digitized in the third chip. Resulting data is then sent to the baseband chip for all processing. The baseband chip includes an ARM core plus Agere's DSP16000 core. A 4-Mbyte by 16 SDRAM and a 256k by 16 flash memory handle all storage chores.

A critical part of the satellite receiver is its antenna. Vehicle antennas, which use left-hand circular polarization (LHCP), have a gain in the 2-dBic range. Terrestrial repeater antennas, on the other hand, utilize linear vertical polarization and have a typical gain of 3 dBic. The antennas normally come with a built-in GaAs LNA.


http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5603&pg=1
 
See, the internet ain't all bad. ;) 8)

I find that flying things in space and small chip sets are pretty cool...
 
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