Audio Processors/Chain for 6000 US

[PaulyBoy]

I've also heard the Vorsis stuff with the new software, and my comments concur with PaulyBoy's. Wheatstone should stick to consoles.

Wonder how long they'll be around. Word has it, Wheatstone is in deep financial trouble, and are letting people go due to lack of sales. I had their sales guy tell me I was stupid (his exact word) for not choosing the ap1000. He wouldn't listen when I told him our PD wouldn't allow audible voice distortion on the air. This was after having their guru try to help us, which he couldn't.

 

[menotti1]

Sounds like the salesman needs some training and may need to go to MISS MANNERS SCHOOL.The processor field is pretty saturated,doubt Wheatstone or the other newer players will make much of a impact on the sales numbers(penetration).
They have a great console product..one thing i do know,Frank Foti and the Omnia team hit a home run with that Omnia One FM.Just superb Marketing .Hey like daddy told me a long time ago,you can't run with the big dogs and whiz
like a puppy.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

I'm sad to hear that Wheatstone is in trouble. Their audio processors are crap (based on my personal listening experience at the NAB last year), but they make really great consoles for the money. I hope they pull out of the muck!

On the subject of processors, I bet you'll be happy with the Omnia One. I just put one in recently and it sounds great, especially for the money. I have another client that has a 8300 and is happy with it too. I actually prefer the 8300, but with modified settings from the standard presets. I pretty much plugged in the Omina One and selected the rock preset. It sounded quite good and I left it alone.

If you had 14k to burn I'd say the best option is the Omnia 6EX. I don't think there's anyone that can hold a candle to that box right now out there.

I have a 8100 and the XT2 chassis on the air on my station right now. They sound great. However in the year 2008 the stereo seperation and tayloring available in the digital boxes of today far outrun any of the old analog stuff including the xt2.

Try an Omnia One. I don't think you'll be unhappy with it. Then you could hand the rest of the money back to the boss and become a hero because you just accomplished what you wanted and respected his bottom line while doing it.

 

[Sgeirk]

I would hate to see anything happen to Wheatstone, of all the console manufacturers doing digital, theirs still looks, feels, and operates like a real radio console.

 

[wgliradio]

I don't know what you guys have been hearing, but I can assure you the Vorsis processors sound as good or better than anything that is out there, including voice, which it sounds exceptional on

Everyone is allowed their opinion, but the fact is, the voice distortion you claim is not there. Even under aggressive processing settings, it just isn't there.

 

[PaulyBoy]

I don't know what you guys have been hearing, but I can assure you the Vorsis processors sound as good or better than anything that is out there, including voice, which it sounds exceptional on

Everyone is allowed their opinion, but the fact is, the voice distortion you claim is not there. Even under aggressive processing settings, it just isn't there.

Yes it is. When switching ap1000 on-air, voice is distorted, as compared to our normal proc? Same audio input to both systems, and output mpx routed to a passive A/B switch, which is connected directly to the exciter. We tried factory presets, along with settings provided by their guru. EVERYTHING was tried, and it failed. Others make the same claim.

 

[wgliradio]

Yes it is. When switching ap1000 on-air, voice is distorted, as compared to our normal proc? Same audio input to both systems, and output mpx routed to a passive A/B switch, which is connected directly to the exciter. We tried factory presets, along with settings provided by their guru. EVERYTHING was tried, and it failed. Others make the same claim.

Their guru is Jeff Keith, who was working with Omnia (and left on his own accord) and has been working with audio processing since the 70's. I would think if there was a voice distortion problem, he would have heard it as would have I when I was playing with all the boxes.

Basically, I had a unique opportunity to sit with a rack full of audio processors with a few friends in Jan which included the AP1000, the FM 5, the Omnia 6exi, Orban 8500, 2200, 2300, Omnia FM, Omnia ONE, Omnia 3 Turbo, Omnia 5. We were left alone with an audio playout system and a CD loaded with voice samples I had made myself that I use to test processing myself. Audio was fed into each processor at the same and could be switched to an Armstrong exciter using a composite switcher. Off air monitoring was done via a Belar Wizard and an Audemat MCFM-4

http://www.audemat-aztec.com/radio-products-10-9.html

There was no spin, nobody pushing one box over another. All the boxes had the latest software (or in the case of the Omnia.FM, the last software).

We could adjust all the audio processors as we wished. If the AP1000 is giving voice distortion it is an end user issue, not an issue with the box. The AP1000 sounded awesome on music and voice.

 

[level42]

I will stand by my original statement on the Vorsis processors.

I spent some time at the factory back in January. Got to do the comparison between the Vorsis stuff, the Orban stuff, and the Omnia stuff.

I personally picked the Vorsis every time. There was nothing even close the "voice distortion" you are describing. In fact, it was much cleaner overall than the other boxes.

The key with the Vorsis box is to really work with the factory to get the preset you want. The box has a TON of power...and so many options, it's easy to get out in left field.

I do think Wheatstone has as long road ahead of them, and a lot of marketing to do to become a viable player in the processor industry...but I do believe their product is good enough that they have a fair shot. As far as them being in financial trouble, I don't think that is the case. Having been to the factory, and having a good relationship with the company, I would say that they're doing just fine. Do you have any facts to back that statement up? Sounds like gossip to me. I would also be curious as to which salesman worked with you when you demoed the Vorsis unit. My experience has been that Wheatstone works very hard to make sure all customers are satisfied.

I employ others to give the Vorsis a shot. Call your preferred Broadcast Supplier and arrange for a demo. Costs you nothing, and you might be very happy with the results.





--
Chris Hall
RF Specialties of GA/Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering
800-476-8943 (office)
229-228-4875 (fax)
229-403-9795 (cell)
[email protected]
www.rfspec.com
www.reelaudio.net

 

[PaulyBoy]

Their guru is Jeff Keith, who was working with Omnia (and left on his own accord) and has been working with audio processing since the 70's. I would think if there was a voice distortion problem, he would have heard it as would have I when I was playing with all the boxes.

I know who their guru is, and was trying to save him embarassment. There seems to be two types of demo here. On real radio stations, like mine, and others that are not true on-air tests. There's a difference. I have compared our station's experience with a few others who tried the box, and they got the same result.

 

[level42]

BTW...my demo was a "true" on-air test. In my mind, that's really the "only" way to test it.

You don't mention what station you tried it on. What is the format? What is the source material? I think it would benefit others to know the conditions of your demo.

--
Chris Hall
RF Specialties of GA/Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering
800-476-8943 (office)
229-228-4875 (fax)
229-403-9795 (cell)
[email protected]
www.rfspec.com
www.reelaudio.net

 

[PaulyBoy]

BTW...my demo was a "true" on-air test. In my mind, that's really the "only" way to test it.

You don't mention what station you tried it on. What is the format? What is the source material? I think it would benefit others to know the conditions of your demo.

Not at liberty to divulge as we keep our processing private. This is a Top-5 market station. The conditions of demo were to put the ap1000 in the rack, connect it to a passive A/B mpx switch and compare it to our existing processor. Same audio input was provided to both units. Nothing fancy. The ap1000 failed.

 

[menotti1]

well if i had a top 5 market station that was not happy with a demo, and being a new player in the processing field i would get off my dead rear end and fly to that site and try to get those folks happy.MAKE SENSE???Nothing like extra service for a potential client that could probably help you move product,especially a high priced unit like that AP1000.LISTEN TO CUSTOMER,HE IS TRYING TO TALK TO YOU.

 

[level42]

Agreed...and having worked with Wheatstone very closely...this is what I know they WOULD do.

Not to doubt PaulyBoy...but Wheatstone is a very reputable company with some of the best service in the business.

Since he feels the need to keep his identity private, I wonder if he could answer this question:

Was the demo provided directly by Wheatstone and one of their in-house salespeople? Or a dealer like myself?

I could see the possibility of you being treated bad by a poor dealer, but knowing the Wheatstone sales staff personally, I am very surprised by your story and wondering if there's more to it?

Thanks.





--
Chris Hall
RF Specialties of GA/Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering
800-476-8943 (office)
229-228-4875 (fax)
229-403-9795 (cell)
[email protected]
www.rfspec.com
www.reelaudio.net

 

[menotti1]

Chris, he said he spoke with Jeff,could not reach a happy solution.Right then,Jeff should have made a move to get this customer happy.it's ironic we're in the audio processing business,BUT we don't hear what the customer is telling us.WHEATSTONE DROPPED THE BALL BIG TIME.When i make a huge investment like this i want the DOG & PONY SHOW.Result a lost sale.won't be in business too long doing that my friend.

 

[wgliradio]

I know who their guru is, and was trying to save him embarassment. There seems to be two types of demo here. On real radio stations, like mine, and others that are not true on-air tests. There's a difference. I have compared our station's experience with a few others who tried the box, and they got the same result.

He shouldn't be embarrassed. In fact, he has done a lot to improve the product since I heard it in Philly in 05. I would think that putting the box thru an exciter, picking it up off air on test equipment and multiple receivers and throwing everything at it would be an off air demo. How do you think these things are test driven in the first place?

Also, in an on-air situation, I doubt I would have the ability to make the kinds of tests I would want to with a box while retaining an audience.

 

[wgliradio]

Chris, he said he spoke with Jeff,could not reach a happy solution.Right then,Jeff should have made a move to get this customer happy.it's ironic we're in the audio processing business,BUT we don't hear what the customer is telling us.WHEATSTONE DROPPED THE BALL BIG TIME.When i make a huge investment like this i want the DOG & PONY SHOW.Result a lost sale.won't be in business too long doing that my friend.

The Vorsis group is open to ideas and suggestions which is a refreshing change. Knowing Wheatstone and speaking with Jeff about processing, I find it hard to believe that they would leave an end user in the lurch.

Listen, I'd be the first to tell you if an audio processor sucks. Certain boxes are good because the continue to improve the sound of a certain brand and if someone is looking for that "sound", that box is for them. I wish some brands weren't as stuck as they are in a particular sound, but you can't argue when these brands have had success... and that is cool for some people... for others?

The cool thing about Vorsis and the Audemat boxes is that they each have their own sound. Some people just aren't used to that... it has to sound like something else. Maybe not. Different is good.

 

[PaulyBoy]

Was the demo provided directly by Wheatstone and one of their in-house salespeople? Or a dealer like myself?

I could see the possibility of you being treated bad by a poor dealer, but knowing the Wheatstone sales staff personally, I am very surprised by your story and wondering if there's more to it?

Chris Hall
RF Specialties of GA/Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering
800-476-8943 (office)
229-228-4875 (fax)
229-403-9795 (cell)
[email protected]
www.rfspec.com
www.reelaudio.net

Since you're a dealer, that explains a lot, and adds bias to your posts. No need to get involved in post-mortem of a failed demo. The box doesn't cut it. My experiences shared here echo those of quite a few others.

 

[level42]

I am an engineer first, and a dealer second. Also, I am very open about the fact that I am in the equipment business...it's right there in my signature along with all of my contact info.

I am a dealer because I think it's a fine product and I believe strongly in it. My bias comes from the fact that I think it's a great box...and that's why my company has chose to carry it.

The point I am trying to make is, the experience you described with Wheatstone and their product does not reflect the rest of the industry's experience with what is in my opinion, one of the best companies in the business.

You have not answered any of our questions about who provided you with the demo, what station you work for, and who the Wheatstone salesperson you dealt with was. I'm not trying to make accusations, but your anonymity makes your story seem a bit less credible.

Everyone that I've seen go through the demo with this product has been floored...not saying that it's an end-all processor, but it is very good and has been before some very fine sets of ears and passed with flying colors. I do understand that processing is a personal taste, but since you've provided no facts to back up your story, something just doesn't seem right. I've known Wheatstone to go to great lengths to please customers...they would not be as successful as they are if they didn't know how to go the extra mile. Your accusation about them being in financial trouble has no factual backing and makes it seem like you just have more of a personal vendetta against this company for some reason. I don't want this to get heated, so this will be my last post on this subject.

I'm sorry you had a poor experience, but please, let others decide with their ears, and leave the slander out of it.


Chris Hall
RF Specialties of GA/Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering
800-476-8943 (office)
229-228-4875 (fax)
229-403-9795 (cell)
[email protected]
www.rfspec.com
www.reelaudio.net

 

[PaulyBoy]

I'm sorry you had a poor experience, but please, let others decide with their ears, and leave the slander out of it.

That's a bit strong. Saying that the box FAILED, or others had the same experience does not constitute slander. The issue is vorsis failed and you can't accept it.

 

[littlejohn]

Perhaps a better choice of words would be "We were unable to make the box sound like we wanted, or sound as good as we thought the Brand X Box sounded."
Although, to me, a test of less that three days or more on - air isn't particularly valid unless there are gross problems. I don't think you can set a proc amp accurately in less than that time anyway on a music format.