Audio Stores, Where Are the Radios?

[HD_Ready]

WIFI radios....

great I'm going to have to find a wifi hotspot whenever I want to listen.

 

[vsa]

They also used to say that nobody would ever want to listen to radio with a computer.

Don't underestimate your competition.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

autopaint-1 wrote: "I'm also not going to be pulled into discussing whether IBOC will become a success with peopole who have obviously made up their minds. The writing style I'm seeing coming from a a few different names is too similar for me to believe they aren't the same person posting under different names. So have a great life and enjoy IBOC when it comes to your town. Remember, it's not too late to get those analogue radios on e-bay."

IBOC will fail - do you think IBOC is going to be able to antiquate 1 billion analog radios - yea, right ! Satellite Radio is too much competition - you see, car manufacturers are being paid $100 for every installed satellite radio. The HD table-top models are a joke !

 

[vsa]

SayNo WROTE: "IBOC will fail - do you think IBOC is going to be able to antiquate 1 billion analog radios - yea, right !  Satellite Radio is too much competition - you see, car manufacturers are being paid $100 for every installed satellite radio. The HD table-top models are a joke !"

HD Radio is failing because nobody is interested. That simple. They forgot to ask consumers what they wanted and if there even was a need.

Satellite radio only hurts HD Radio with a few early-adopter techies. I believe satellite will ultimately fail, mostly because of the huge cost of satellite delivery visa-viz wireless broadband competition in coming years. XM and Sirius will be depending more and more on Internet delivery.

The HD table-tops are not the problem . It's the limitations on FM signal strength that's the problem for HD FM. But that's only a problem for disappointed buyers.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

I am going to laugh, when there are mass returns of HD Radio table-tops, because they do not work, as advertised. If someone adds an HD Radio to their car, I wonder, what they can do, when they find out the digital signal keeps dropping out, then the analog signal noticably kicks in, with a delay.

 

[HD_Ready]

The only thing I hear when stations blend back to analog is some picket fencing. What delay are you talking about. Analog is time aligned to the digital to make the transition smooth.

 

[davideduardo]

I am going to laugh, when there are mass returns of HD Radio table-tops, because they do not work, as advertised. If someone adds an HD Radio to their car, I wonder, what they can do, when they find out the digital signal keeps dropping out, then the analog signal noticably kicks in, with a delay.

There is absolutely no delay. The analog audio is delayed exactly the time that the digital processing takes, currently someting like 8.1 seconds. So the fallback to analog is transparent, except for the quality change.

 

[calstymes]

The analog program delay is yet another technically superb characteristic of AM HD/IBOC. This must be an engineeering nightmare under some circumstances depending on the format of the AM station, yes? For instance, how do we resync all those clocks to the network top of hour bongs?

As a strictly engineering matter, however, I'm told that the analog program delay is actually relatively easy to accomplish since the HD exciter will automatically do it (as it is transforming the audio into ones and zeros in preparation for sending on the HD carrier).

 

[davideduardo]

The analog program delay is yet another technically superb characteristic of AM HD/IBOC. This must be an engineeering nightmare under some circumstances depending on the format of the AM station, yes? For instance, how do we resync all those clocks to the network top of hour bongs?

Quite a number of stations are putting permanent profanity delays on 24/7 due to the FCC indecency policy, so adding a little more delay is not significant. And most time tones and such can be pre-recorded and synchronized, as many N/T stations do now.

 

[calstymes]

Quote from: DavidEduardo on Today at 06:49:14 am

Quote from: Cal Stymes on Today at 05:47:38 am

The analog program delay is yet another technically superb characteristic of AM HD/IBOC. This must be an engineering nightmare under some circumstances depending on the format of the AM station, yes? For instance, how do we resync all those clocks to the network top of hour bongs?

Quite a number of stations are putting permanent profanity delays on 24/7 due to the FCC indecency policy, so adding a little more delay is not significant. And most time tones and such can be pre-recorded and synchronized, as many N/T stations do now.

Thank you for the lesson. Actually, I already knew that so I wasn't specifically referring to talk-format AM radio stations, which we know are already doing this (because this is the format they elected to adopt and profanity rules demand it). But what about those AM radio stations that have formats other than talk? Implementing AM HD/IBOC is forcing these stations to broadcast in a permanent delay that they were not previously required to do. I suppose if the format is music then, who cares? But if the format is one that provides up to the minute information and numerous broadcasts from remote locations then it seems to me that this introduces engineering problems which must be solved before HD/IBOC can actually go on the air at these stations.

Cal

 

[IBOCRocks]

Quote from: DavidEduardo on Today at 06:49:14 am

Quote from: Cal Stymes on Today at 05:47:38 am

The analog program delay is yet another technically superb characteristic of AM HD/IBOC. This must be an engineering nightmare under some circumstances depending on the format of the AM station, yes? For instance, how do we resync all those clocks to the network top of hour bongs?

Quite a number of stations are putting permanent profanity delays on 24/7 due to the FCC indecency policy, so adding a little more delay is not significant. And most time tones and such can be pre-recorded and synchronized, as many N/T stations do now.

Thank you for the lesson. Actually, I already knew that so I wasn't specifically referring to talk-format AM radio stations, which we know are already doing this (because this is the format they elected to adopt and profanity rules demand it). But what about those AM radio stations that have formats other than talk? Implementing AM HD/IBOC is forcing these stations to broadcast in a permanent delay that they were not previously required to do. I suppose if the format is music then, who cares? But if the format is one that provides up to the minute information and numerous broadcasts from remote locations then it seems to me that this introduces engineering problems which must be solved before HD/IBOC can actually go on the air at these stations.

Cal

Actually, you can slip the analog in and out of delay very easily. In fact, there's even a "sports flag" that the IBOC encoder can send out, forcing the receiver into analog for things like baseball games and the like. With that, your analog broadcast is in real time, and the radio won't try to switch into and out of HD, jumping back and forth. You aren't "stuck" with delays.

As for introducing problems, lots of larger stations are already on a permanent 8 second profanity delay, so adding another delay doesn't present a challenge. A delay is a delay is a delay.

 

[davideduardo]

Thank you for the lesson. Actually, I already knew that so I wasn't specifically referring to talk-format AM radio stations, which we know are already doing this (because this is the format they elected to adopt and profanity rules demand it). But what about those AM radio stations that have formats other than talk? Implementing AM HD/IBOC is forcing these stations to broadcast in a permanent delay that they were not previously required to do. I suppose if the format is music then, who cares? But if the format is one that provides up to the minute information and numerous broadcasts from remote locations then it seems to me that this introduces engineering problems which must be solved before HD/IBOC can actually go on the air at these stations.

Obscenity prohibitions do not madate delay. The prohibit the broadcast of certain material. It is up to the licensee to provide a cure for the broadcast of such material, or face fines.

Delay has been more common in morning shows and FM of late, given the fact that they involve humor and audience participation. Bot AM and FM HD have an analog delay to synchronize the digital signal to the analog in the event of a fallback. And many FMs have put permanent delay on the entire station, 24/7 because of the huge fines.

The engineering issues with remotes have been solved with talkback, as opposed to on air monitoring. Many digital processors already introduced delay, as did digital STLs or T1 lines. So we had already developed solutions for "syncing" live cut ins and such.

 

[autopaint-1]

Remotes for any descent station are done via either ISDN or Comrex Hotline (or it's stable mates - Matrix etc) On ISDN using G.722 or AAC-LD provides for neatly instantanious return cue. The days of listening to your off air signal for return are long gone, sorry.

 

[calstymes]

Quote from autopaint-1:

Remotes for any descent station are done via either ISDN or Comrex Hotline (or it's stable mates - Matrix etc).

What about for an ascent station? Ok, I'm being silly. Sure I knew you meant "decent".

On ISDN using G.722 or AAC-LD provides for neatly instantanious return cue. The days of listening to your off air signal for return are long gone, sorry.

I'm sorry too, Dave. Perhaps you are angry with me and have overlooked some things which may (or may not) be obvious. Please don't confuse me with Just Say NO. I am not hostile.

You are an engineering professional of nearly 28 years with your current employer in the #1 broadcast market in the U.S and I am a radio/tv wannabe and goofball from anytown U.S.A. You are equipped with at least one working BA Receptor (that you have posted about) and I am equipped with only a deaf BA Receptor (that I have posted about) and which you have advised me that I should get repaired. I might just do that because I'd love to be able to consistently hear what all the fuss is about (the AM blending thing gets tiresome and causes listening fatigue for me).

Now, because of your experience level you have all the "tools of the trade" available to you in your analysis of just how good (or not) this new HD/IBOC technology is, yet you haven't completely thought through your quip to me here. Are there absolutely no instances you can think of where installing a landline of any sort for using a telephone/ISDN/Comrex Hotline or two tin cans, etc. to a remote venue will not work?

 

[autopaint-1]

WHere did you even come into this conversation and I've asked you not to repete the laundry list. Your cynical attitude especially since I've asked you before makes you look no better than SayNo. Try to grow up and stop with the foolishness.You may think it funny, so why not list your qualifications and accomplishments so that we all know what you bring to the table.

 

[IBOCRocks]

Are there absolutely no instances you can think of where installing a landline of any sort for using a telephone/ISDN/Comrex Hotline or two tin cans, etc. to a remote venue will not work?

Honestly, no. Since a lot of stations use a profanity delay, there were already systems in place. For example, if we can't get a land line, we use a GSM Comrex. If we can't do any of that, we simply won't do it. How many times has that happened? Zero.

So it's been easy to handle.

 

[calstymes]

autopaint-1 wrote on my computer screen:

Where did you even come into this conversation and I've asked you not to repete the laundry list.

What laundry list? I have said nothing here that you do not take most opportunities to remind us about by posting in these message boards which therefore IMPLIES that the rest of us are blithering idiots and that we don't know what we're doing or talking about.

Your cynical attitude especially since I've asked you before makes you look no better than SayNo.

You're darn right I'm cynical. I am annoyed about several things regarding HD/IBOC, not the least of which was that the public never asked for it and it is being rammed down our throats. Yes, yes, I know in the other thread you said:

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. No one forces anyone to listen to the radio at all.

Yes, of course that's right. No one is forcing me to listen to the radio. But we are, in fact, being forced to adapt particularly if analog radio is eventually turned off. The same is true of HDTV. I know, I know... we don't know whether or not these things will ever happen but I do believe that they are part of the master plan. Sunset dates are VERY dangerous and they only serve to alienate a lot of people.

But the broadcasting conglomerates which forged the original alliance that became Ibiquity have barrelled ahead with developing a technology that they were hell-bent on developing regardless of whether or not there were better chips and algorithms in the making. They have paid a LOT of money for other companies NOT to develop superior competing technologies. There is something WRONG with this model of doing business.

However, if traditional broadcasting wishes to remain competitive they will apply new technologies which will make them more attractive to the typical listener.

If traditional broadcasting wishes to remain competitive they will need to start using talented people to produce good programming for listeners again. Somewhere along the way, they forgot how to do that. It seemed to start happening when the atmosphere of deregulation allowed them to slowly converge their properties into large conglomerates and stop using people to create a quality product.

Try to grow up and stop with the foolishness. You may think it funny, so why not list your qualifications and accomplishments so that we all know what you bring to the table.

I bring nothing to the table. I have no qualifications and I have no accomplishments which I care to share here. And yes, to some degree it is really quite funny how many people have so many emotional opinions about this one subject and actually have no real clue as to how we got "here" from "there".

So, back to my original question: Are there absolutely no instances you can think of where installing a landline of any sort for using a telephone/ISDN/Comrex Hotline or two tin cans, etc. to a remote venue will not work?

 

[autopaint-1]

"So, back to my original question: Are there absolutely no instances you can think of where installing a landline of any sort for using a telephone/ISDN/Comrex Hotline or two tin cans, etc. to a remote venue will not work?"

No there are not. We use Inmarsat phones (transmitting and receiving ISDN at G.722, 64 K) from anywhere in the world if we don't have access to a local drop.

 

[calstymes]

What great solutions that autopaint-1 and IBOCRocks have mentioned for remote venues where landlines won't work! Darn I wish I'd have thought of them. It's those great engineering minds that come up with the very best solutions. I could learn a thing or two if I hang out here. ;D

I am now a disciple of HD/IBOC. I have seen the light of this emerging technology and woe to all those who refuse to embrace it. Ibiquity is what will save our free radio from the clutches of extinction. Have a great HD-listening weekend and may your BA Receptor always stay in digital mode! :

 

[autopaint-1]

I hope you aren't kidding because if you are your concluding sentence in your first paragraph is right. You could learn a lot. If you watch the cable news networks and saw their cams which show relatively low quality video from areas where traditional methods won't work, they are also using Inmarsat. http://www.inmarsat.com/

Then there's Comrex GSM mode. It allows the phone line audio extender (Matrix) to be used through a cell phone connection. It's a 9600 baud rate.