August 2010 Ratings

[aindik]

Not much of note here. The most surprising thing to me is the huge drop in WRFF's numbers. Down to a 3.4, from a 4.3 last month.

WIP rebounds to a 3.3. WPEN FM/AM up to a combined 2.0.

Big jump for 'XPN for some reason, up to a 2.0.

 

[MoldaMania182]

Will someone please put YSP out of its misery...

 

[Jay F]

Will someone please put YSP out of its misery...

They should consider simulcasting WIP or WPHT on FM.

 

[aindik]

Will someone please put YSP out of its misery...

They should consider simulcasting WIP or WPHT on FM.

As has been debated numerous times here, that won't raise the ratings on 94.1 enough to compensate for the lost listeners on the AM station.

Current combined AQH share on 610 and 94.1 = 5.7. If WIP is simulcast on 94.1 and 610, I bet the ratings on 610 shrink to about a 0.5. Any chance SportsRadio 94.1 pulls a 5.2, which would be good for No. 5 in the market? I'm thinking no chance.

 

[danwxman]

WISX loses ratings and cume. Re: Hot AC experiment FAIL. This station desparetely needs to go either full time Hot AC, back to the previous format (which was building an audience), or go all out KTU style (which could snap up some listeners from WRDW).

WRDW is really hot right, they are probably creaming WIOQ in 18-34 now.

 

[Jay F]

Will someone please put YSP out of its misery...

They should consider simulcasting WIP or WPHT on FM.

As has been debated numerous times here, that won't raise the ratings on 94.1 enough to compensate for the lost listeners on the AM station.

Current combined AQH share on 610 and 94.1 = 5.7. If WIP is simulcast on 94.1 and 610, I bet the ratings on 610 shrink to about a 0.5. Any chance SportsRadio 94.1 pulls a 5.2, which would be good for No. 5 in the market? I'm thinking no chance.

I wouldn't say no chance considering CBS has FM sports stations in a few different markets. In Detroit they are #1 with Sports on FM. It's not doing as well so far in Boston and Pittsburgh. Some younger sports fans who never listen to AM would become heavy users of sports radio if it was on FM.

 

[Dxer1105]

People are FINALLY realizing that WRFF's music mix is a train wreck. I think they should tweak the format and add some hard rock tracks and get rid of anything pre-Nirvana, the 70's and 80's tracks they play, softer hot ac crossovers such as dave matthews band or counting crows. basically make it a "modern rock station" or make it sound like G-Rock, old Y-100 etc.

 

[SoulCrusher]

I knew in time that people would tire of Radio 104.5, hence the sinking numbers. What a bland, stale music mix they have. It is inferior to both Y-100 and WDRE, but I suppose that's to be expected with those purveyors of McRadio known as Clear Channel at the helm.

It's time for a format tweak. Keep the listeners you have while reaching out to new ones. If they lost the Counting Crows, Fray, and other lite-rock mush, would anyone really shed a tear? And if you're going to play pre-Nirvana music, how about ditching the predictable U2 arena rock (i.e. "Sunday Bloody Sunday") and Police elevator music ("Every Breath You Take")? Both bands have titles that are far less objectionable for the audience they're trying to reach. Some Smiths, Depeche Mode, Psychedelic Furs, R.E.M., Pixies, Replacements, XTC, English Beat, Alarm, etc. would be welcome additions to the station as well. They can also afford to go much broader with music from the last two decades as well - what they don't play that you can hear on an 'FNX, The Spy, WTKS, or even 'RXP can fill a book.

The Radio 104.5 approach led to strong numbers out of the gate, but they're dwindling fast. My advice to them would be to mix things up before they join 'YSP in the cellar. You can't expect to not have most of your listeners tune out when you play the same songs day after day.

 

[DG02816]

I'd be in favor of putting KYW on 94.1 as the main programming, Let the headbangers and alterna-rockers be content with an HD feed. Short of that, put 1210 there, so that those who follow Limbaugh et al can get their jollies.

 

[SilverTonicFree]

I knew in time that people would tire of Radio 104.5, hence the sinking numbers. What a bland, stale music mix they have. It is inferior to both Y-100 and WDRE, but I suppose that's to be expected with those purveyors of McRadio known as Clear Channel at the helm.

It's time for a format tweak. Keep the listeners you have while reaching out to new ones. If they lost the Counting Crows, Fray, and other lite-rock mush, would anyone really shed a tear? And if you're going to play pre-Nirvana music, how about ditching the predictable U2 arena rock (i.e. "Sunday Bloody Sunday") and Police elevator music ("Every Breath You Take")? Both bands have titles that are far less objectionable for the audience they're trying to reach. Some Smiths, Depeche Mode, Psychedelic Furs, R.E.M., Pixies, Replacements, XTC, English Beat, Alarm, etc. would be welcome additions to the station as well. They can also afford to go much broader with music from the last two decades as well - what they don't play that you can hear on an 'FNX, The Spy, WTKS, or even 'RXP can fill a book.

The Radio 104.5 approach led to strong numbers out of the gate, but they're dwindling fast. My advice to them would be to mix things up before they join 'YSP in the cellar. You can't expect to not have most of your listeners tune out when you play the same songs day after day.

While I too admit, the music selection does get a little stale on 104.5, I don't think it's panic time at all. Other than the past 3 months up and down, they have been VERY consistant ratings-wise. I think they could throw in some more oh-wows (would it kill them to play "Banditos" by the Refreshments??), but they have the music to the perfect core... what Y100 and WDRE spun at their peaks, and a good blend of what's new. Sometimes they're REALLY slow on new music (why haven't they added "Impossible" by Anberlin yet), sometimes they jump on it quick (Mumford and Sons, Free Energy). Whatever the method is to their madness, it does seem to work. Throwing in Psychadelic Furs, Replacements, Smiths, XTC, English Beat, and Alarm would only cause listeners to stray, mainly because Y100 and WDRE didn't spin them much, so they're not going to be remembered.

It's not time for 104.5 to panic at all. If after a few months the trend shows the listeners are gone, then it's time to worry.

 

[Slinky]

Some Smiths, Depeche Mode, Psychedelic Furs, R.E.M., Pixies, Replacements, XTC, English Beat, Alarm, etc. would be welcome additions to the station as well. They can also afford to go much broader with music from the last two decades as well - what they don't play that you can hear on an 'FNX, The Spy, WTKS, or even 'RXP can fill a book.

Have you seen those stations' ratings? (TKS doesn't count as they're Talk the vast majority of the time.)

Not sure why WRFF would try to emulate a bunch of stations in the gutter. SilverTonic has it right- WRFF is basically the greatest hits of Philadelphia alternative. They're not intended to be cutting edge because that simply doesn't work on the radio at this time.

 

[Jay F]

Plus there is no major HOT AC in Philly so by being softer and more familiar than most alternative stations WRFF also serves as a default Hot AC. It's just one month, I wouldn't panic.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Some Smiths, Depeche Mode, Psychedelic Furs, R.E.M., Pixies, Replacements, XTC, English Beat, Alarm, etc. would be welcome additions to the station as well. They can also afford to go much broader with music from the last two decades as well - what they don't play that you can hear on an 'FNX, The Spy, WTKS, or even 'RXP can fill a book.

Have you seen those stations' ratings? (TKS doesn't count as they're Talk the vast majority of the time.)

Not sure why WRFF would try to emulate a bunch of stations in the gutter. SilverTonic has it right- WRFF is basically the greatest hits of Philadelphia alternative. They're not intended to be cutting edge because that simply doesn't work on the radio at this time.

This might just be one book. But if this trend continues, it's time for a change. It's inevitable that people are going to become sick and tired of hearing the same songs time and time again. Classic rock fans can hear "Stairway To Heaven" and "Freebird" over and over again, but the same cannot be said for alt-rockers with "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Lightning Crashes".

For the most part, Radio 104.5 is playing the exact same artists and songs that they did when they signed on over three years ago (though, thankfully, they ditched the Hinder and Daughtry). I don't understand what they would have to lose by adding some of the bands I just mentioned. I don't think people are going to run from the radio screaming if they were to come on. Besides, I'm confident that many of then were played on WDRE, so Philly should remember the majority of them.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all for them to at least surprise us once or twice an hour. I can honestly say that I thought K-Rock in NYC was a more exciting listen than this station, and that's pretty sad. There's plenty of music that people remember from 'DRE and Y-100 that they're completely avoiding, and it's also quite foolish to ignore modern acts with a strong following like Arcade Fire, Spoon, Kaiser Chiefs, Bloc Party, The Gaslight Anthem, etc. the way they have up to this point. Basically, they're 20 or so Current-ish (some of their "Currents" are more than six months old) titles, and they work over the most tired '90s rock titles as if they've somehow not become extremely stale. Something's gotta give. While I don't think they'll drop to the cellar, I do expect a greater erosion in ratings until some changes are made.

Plus there is no major HOT AC in Philly so by being softer and more familiar than most alternative stations WRFF also serves as a default Hot AC. It's just one month, I wouldn't panic.

The relevance and importance of the Hot AC format is greatly exaggerated. To demonstrate, I will point at the trend of virtually all stations we have seen that report as Hot AC over the last 2 or 3 years. At one time, they were serving a unique audience by playing songs from the '80s, '90s, and today. Now, you would be hard-pressed to find significant differences between stations that report as 'CHR' and those that call themselves 'Hot AC'. Hot AC is more accurately described as "Adult CHR" now.

Formats that were once reluctant to play anything rhythmic or even hip-hop oriented are now spinning acts like Jason DeRulo, Ke$ha, Beyonce, Jay Sean, Black Eyed Peas, and even B.O.B.! There's only a handful of discernable differences between the formats: imaging, the broader reach of Hot AC (they will go further back in time than CHR, though not nearly as often as they used to), and that there are still some acts which don't cross over - you won't hear Rob Thomas on most CHRs, and you aren't likely to hear Pitbull on your local Hot AC. Chalk it up to whatever you will: the target audience for Hot AC being more open-minded, or hip-hop becoming a lot more pop-oriented. But whatever the case may be, Hot AC is embracing rhythmic and urban music more and more, so the lines between these two formats have become blurred.

If people are looking for something close to what Hot AC used to sound like, they would be just as well served by listening to BEN-FM. Or maybe the audience for this kind of thing just isn't there: NOW 97.5 evolved into something pretty close to what Hot AC used to be, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[SilverTonicFree]

This might just be one book. But if this trend continues, it's time for a change. It's inevitable that people are going to become sick and tired of hearing the same songs time and time again. Classic rock fans can hear "Stairway To Heaven" and "Freebird" over and over again, but the same cannot be said for alt-rockers with "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Lightning Crashes".

Why not? The people who grew up listening to Stairway and Freebird will listen to Stairway and Freebird. The people who grew up listening to Teen Spirit and Lightning Crashes will listen to Teen Spirit and Lighting Crashes. It's the music that reminds them of growing up. That'll never change. If someone grew up listening to Whitney Houston and Taylor Dane, they'll like hearing those songs again.

Besides, I'm confident that many of then were played on WDRE, so Philly should remember the majority of them.

And that was 13+ years ago. And those songs haven't been played on the radio in Philly in the past 13 years, and they weren't big hits to begin with. The older end of the demo doesn't remember them and the younger end of the demo never knew them. I'd LOVE to hear "Time Ago" by Black Lab on repeat on 104.5 because Y100 and Max 95.7 played it to DEATH, but the audience doesn't remember it at all.

If people are looking for something close to what Hot AC used to sound like, they would be just as well served by listening to BEN-FM. Or maybe the audience for this kind of thing just isn't there: NOW 97.5 evolved into something pretty close to what Hot AC used to be, and we all know how that turned out.

It's tough to make a fair comparison on Hot AC in the Philly market. Think about it. You have WPST coming from the north (Mostly 2000-Now Hot AC), amd WSTW from the south (80s, 90s, and Now CHR) eroding the Hot AC audience. PLUS, think about all of the past iterations of Hot AC in Philly. Now 97.5 started as Mainstream AC, then went Christmas, then went Adult CHR, then 80s 90s and Now Hot AC, all in UNDER a year. That's not enough time to build an audience. 96.5 The point morphed into Hot AC from all-80s so they had the built-in fail already. Mix 95.7 morphed from Rhythmicish Hot to Hot AC back to Rhythmic etc, and couldn't hold a permanent format. Alice 104.5 evolved from an early version of Adult Hits to Hot AC. The ONLY station that started as some form of Hot AC was Max 95.7, and they were growing before they were blown up for format-of-the-month Jammin Gold. Long story still long... it's tough to compare 104.5's effect on the Hot AC market, but realize, Hot AC is more than Ke$ha and Lady Gaga. Yes, they're big at the format, but many Hot ACs till play Tonic and Gin Blossoms etc.

 

[danwxman]

The irony is that WSTW is a CHR and WPST is a Hot AC.

They should report the other way around, IMO.

 

[wprt949]

the other night radio 104.5 sounded like an active rocker

now its back to the same boring tunes

 

[danwxman]

The last thing Philly needs is an Active Rock station, or another station playing hard rock.

WRFF has potential, but I agree the playlist is stale. Look at the bounce WXPN has been getting lately. The true alternative listeners are being turned off by WRFF's stale playlist.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Today, Radio 104.5 played the following:

10:59 AM: The Fray - You Found Me
11:36 AM: Paramore - Misery Business
01:36 PM: Fall Out Boy - Thnks Fr Th Mmrs

I won't even go into the long list of safe crossover titles that can be heard on countless other stations in the market, or the overplayed songs that continue to get played with the same frequency to this day. If I can point to one significant problem with the way Radio 104.5 is programmed, it's this. Most alternative rock fans that I know find these songs objectionable, perhaps even downright toxic. None of them charted all that high with this format, and The Fray (which, let's be honest: they're a soft rock group in the company of OneRepublic, Matchbox Twenty, and The Script, and NOT Alternative) has appeared no higher than the mid-30s with any of their songs, and it wasn't this one. Clear Channel does have a Top 40 station where they can play these acts, don't they? Well, that's where they belong.

There was a discussion elsewhere about how New York's WRXP often does countdowns or other special themes on holiday weekends to break the monotony of their playlist (which, for the record, is far more eclectic and diverse than Radio 104.5's playlist). To date, I have yet to hear WRFF implement anything like this during their 3+ years on the air, with the exception of an "Under The Covers" weekend, where they play a cover of a song maybe 1 out of every 5 or so songs that they play. On those weekends, they're still playing it extremely safe by working in the most stale, predictable tracks you can think of.

I'm not holding out much hope for this station getting any better, barring a huge drop in ratings or new competition for their audience arriving on the scene. They completely ignore the alt-rock heritage in Philly, not playing anything that you would know from WDRE, Y-100, or even Max 95.7 (which perhaps can be blamed on the lack of involvement of any personnel from those stations at Radio 104.5). Really, the only thing that stands out about them is occasionally playing a song from a Philly-based band (Hooters, Bloodhound Gang, G. Love, etc.). You would be hard-pressed to find a more milquetoast modern rock station in the entire country.

 

[SilverTonicFree]

They completely ignore the alt-rock heritage in Philly, not playing anything that you would know from WDRE, Y-100, or even Max 95.7

First you say they're playing it too safe, then you're saying they're ignoring the heritage of Y100 and Max 95.7? Remember that they BOTH played Sarah McLachlan and Natalie Imbruglia. Heavily. Radio 104.5 is playing the best of Y100, WDRE (and a little Max 95.7, but not much). The songs that you constantly list as songs they "should play" didn't get much play in Philadelphia, on Y100 or WDRE, thus, the audience doesn't know them. If they hear it on 104.5, they turn it off, which leads to lower ratings. Basic radio rules.

 

[SoulCrusher]

They completely ignore the alt-rock heritage in Philly, not playing anything that you would know from WDRE, Y-100, or even Max 95.7

First you say they're playing it too safe, then you're saying they're ignoring the heritage of Y100 and Max 95.7? Remember that they BOTH played Sarah McLachlan and Natalie Imbruglia. Heavily. Radio 104.5 is playing the best of Y100, WDRE (and a little Max 95.7, but not much). The songs that you constantly list as songs they "should play" didn't get much play in Philadelphia, on Y100 or WDRE, thus, the audience doesn't know them. If they hear it on 104.5, they turn it off, which leads to lower ratings. Basic radio rules.

I do remember Max playing all of that stuff (and oddly enough, the Imbruglia and McLachlan songs of the time ranked pretty well on the Alternative charts at the time, as did a certain Meredith Brooks song - 1997 was a strange time for the format, as the third-wave ska and electronica booms were big as well). But I also remember them playing the aforementioned Black Lab's "Time Ago" and Cornershop's "Brimful Of Asha" a whole lot, which were great songs and fit an alternative rock format just fine. I definitely wouldn't mind hearing either of them again.