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Automation for News/Talk

R

rye

Guest
There have been countless post about what is the "best" automation system. Everyone has a different opinion. It seems that most automation systems are really built to handle music playback. Does anyone have any opinions on which systems perform best for talk (both syndicated and in-studio)? With so many hard times it is a completely different animal than music. Any systems to avoid?

rye
 
> There have been countless post about what is the "best"
> automation system. Everyone has a different opinion. It
> seems that most automation systems are really built to
> handle music playback. Does anyone have any opinions on
> which systems perform best for talk (both syndicated and
> in-studio)? With so many hard times it is a completely
> different animal than music. Any systems to avoid?

We use Simian...has a fairly straightforward trigger/relay system. When combined with a satellite controller (like the Broadcast Tools DSC32/64) and an audio controller (like the Broadcast Tools SS8.2), it's extremely easy and reliable.

As much as I like to find problems and criticize, it's not a bad combination.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Simian also has the sub-routine wherein you enter various events that will happen at the same time each day (and indicate which days, as well). This is completely apart from the main program, which is sequential in nature and more amenable to being driven by external triggers.

Let's say you have a talk program from one source from 11:00 to 11:59:30, then a newscast from another source.

The first could be automated using triggers freom the satellite to insert local breaks.

The news sequence could then be handled by the subroutine strictly on time.
 
> Simian also has the sub-routine wherein you enter various
> events that will happen at the same time each day (and
> indicate which days, as well). This is completely apart
> from the main program, which is sequential in nature and
> more amenable to being driven by external triggers.
>
> Let's say you have a talk program from one source from 11:00
> to 11:59:30, then a newscast from another source.
>
> The first could be automated using triggers freom the
> satellite to insert local breaks.
>
> The news sequence could then be handled by the subroutine
> strictly on time.
>

I personally prefer ENCO...maybe because that is all I have ever used, but it is pretty easy to set the sat triggers up as long as your GPI's are hooked up correctly...<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
I don't know if it's still around, but back in the 90's, there was a product called RDS Phantom...and hands down was best for talk/news programming IF all you were using it for was that purpose. Live-assist was a cludge.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Zach Morton
Chief Engineer
Basin Radio Network
Gillette, Wyoming</P>
 
> I don't know if it's still around, but back in the 90's,
> there was a product called RDS Phantom...and hands down was
> best for talk/news programming IF all you were using it for
> was that purpose. Live-assist was a cludge.
> >
>


I recomend Prophet's Nexgen personally.

BSI's Simian also would work nicely for a news talk envrionment and is very flexable depending on what you want to do with it.

I've heard horror stories about ENCO though.

My advice would be to contact each company and the one that can best fit your needs and budget would be the best one to go with, also find out their support options and so forth.

<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
> I've heard horror stories about ENCO though.

ENCO is capable of doing just about anything you ask it to do. The trick is knowing HOW to ask it to do what you want. It's got a lot of quirks as well, many of which have cost us revenue, because the system did something its never done before. And I cannot say enough how much I *HATE* calling ENCO Tech Support. If they would learn to speak English, I'd have much less difficulty with them. Not to mention we're not paying them to talk down to me when I call them for help.

If you go with ENCO, find someone within your company that is knowledgeable about the system, and is easy to work with. Get them to train you on it. Mind you, I've not worked with any other systems (although I've seen them in action), but this is what I can offer you from firsthand experience.<P ID="signature">______________
narniabanner.jpg
</P>
 
> I recomend Prophet's Nexgen personally.

Not impressed with nexgen at all. The classic CFS was much better...and I wish they designed nexgen with a similar interface.

I'm actually starting to like Simian...if they added a scripting language like SAM3's PAL and some backtiming to the program log display then I might go as far as saying I really do like it.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Please remember when it comes to automation *every* installation is custom!

I have never seen two stations that are exactly the same. Get your automation salesperson to not sell you a box but rather a solution. Working with your exact sat receivers and controllers on the same networks you use with the same triggers they send you (tones, beeedoops, GPIO's). Also make sure they consider your audio board or external switcher, your traffic (music) system, etc. get the idea?

Also, get a demo of how easy (or not easy) it is in their particular system to delay an entire program including all embedded breaks, ID's, and stabs. Speaking from personal experience in Enco, for example, this is not easy...but once you get it to work it's rock solid.

My experience with Enco supoort has been very good - they are quite helpful (and they do speak english !?!).

Regards,
Joe







> > I've heard horror stories about ENCO though.
>
> ENCO is capable of doing just about anything you ask it to
> do. The trick is knowing HOW to ask it to do what you want.
> It's got a lot of quirks as well, many of which have cost
> us revenue, because the system did something its never done
> before. And I cannot say enough how much I *HATE* calling
> ENCO Tech Support. If they would learn to speak English,
> I'd have much less difficulty with them. Not to mention
> we're not paying them to talk down to me when I call them
> for help.
>
> If you go with ENCO, find someone within your company that
> is knowledgeable about the system, and is easy to work with.
> Get them to train you on it. Mind you, I've not worked
> with any other systems (although I've seen them in action),
> but this is what I can offer you from firsthand experience.
>
 
> Please remember when it comes to automation *every*
> installation is custom!
>
> I have never seen two stations that are exactly the same.
> Get your automation salesperson to not sell you a box but
> rather a solution. Working with your exact sat receivers
> and controllers on the same networks you use with the same
> triggers they send you (tones, beeedoops, GPIO's). Also
> make sure they consider your audio board or external
> switcher, your traffic (music) system, etc. get the idea?
>
> Also, get a demo of how easy (or not easy) it is in their
> particular system to delay an entire program including all
> embedded breaks, ID's, and stabs. Speaking from personal
> experience in Enco, for example, this is not easy...but once
> you get it to work it's rock solid.
>
> My experience with Enco supoort has been very good - they
> are quite helpful (and they do speak english !?!).
>
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I've heard horror stories about ENCO though.
> >
> > ENCO is capable of doing just about anything you ask it to
>
> > do. The trick is knowing HOW to ask it to do what you
> want.
> > It's got a lot of quirks as well, many of which have cost
>
> > us revenue, because the system did something its never
> done
> > before. And I cannot say enough how much I *HATE* calling
>
> > ENCO Tech Support. If they would learn to speak English,
> > I'd have much less difficulty with them. Not to mention
> > we're not paying them to talk down to me when I call them
> > for help.
> >
> > If you go with ENCO, find someone within your company that
>
> > is knowledgeable about the system, and is easy to work
> with.
> > Get them to train you on it. Mind you, I've not worked
> > with any other systems (although I've seen them in
> action),
> > but this is what I can offer you from firsthand
> experience.
> >
>

One system to NOT buy is Computer Concepts. Tech support sucks, and it isn't worth a damn for sat automation. I would think Prophet or Simian may be the answer.


<P ID="signature">______________
--- THE Insultant ---</P>
 
> There have been countless post about what is the "best"
> automation system. Everyone has a different opinion. It
> seems that most automation systems are really built to
> handle music playback. Does anyone have any opinions on
> which systems perform best for talk (both syndicated and
> in-studio)? With so many hard times it is a completely
> different animal than music. Any systems to avoid?
>
> rye
>

One that hasn't been mentioned yet is CDS32 by Pristine Systems. I'm using the earlier "CartWorks" version at a news talker and have been very happy with it.

www.pristinesys.com



RFB
 
The Phantom

> The RDS Phantom...hands down best for talk/news programming.

> Live-assist was a cludge.

I've worked, pretty much exclusively, with the Phantom since 1993. I was even a dealer/consultant for a a few years. I'd have to say that Zach (Hey there, Zach) is more or less correct.

The Phantom is "all DOS, all the time" and was originally and intentionally designed for satellite operations, from the floppy drive to the fan.

If your needs are switching between satellite (audio & relay) sources, relay driven triggering of "on the log" audio breaks, as well as audio from rotations (sub-routines), relay or time based recording of audio (but not relay functions...unless they're 25/35 hz tones), then the Phantom is probably a good choice.

You can get a new one (hardware is mostly proprietary) for about $6k...used for much less. Before you do, consider that there've been no updates in years, and RDS is a much less profitable division of the family owned company than it once was.

For some time now, there's been talk of the parent company selling it's broadcast holdings (radio & TV), and I doubt anybody will be interested in RDS, if the rest does sell. Still, there are a few who know the system intimately, and many others who know a great deal, so I doubt you'd find yourself without some sort of tech support.

I live with three Phantoms everyday (6 to 8 years of operation), and they basically get the job done, as far as our small market operations are concerned. Still, I'm looking to make a change. I've pretty much decided on MediaTouch. The price is good, and my engineer knows the stuff intimately.

Zach's "live assist was a cludge" remark, comes from a mutually shared experience. In the late 90's, ABC in Dallas was contracted by Armed Forces Radio to "do" an alternative format for them, to be delivered via satellite.

For some inexplicable reason, ABC decided to purchase a Phantom to handle this format (Brad Harrison was a damn good salesman). Zach was ABC's guy in charge, and I was engaged to go to Dallas for the "final install" and training.

Mind you, the Phantom's strength was on the receiving end of the satellite receiver...NOT on the originating end. By the time I arrived, the music had been "hard dubbed" (no ripping allowed) into the system, and some basic clocks had been partially setup. As I remember, I don't think we got the damned thing to work like Zach wanted...at least, not right then. Later on, I think most of the kinks were worked out.

I did use a Phantom to automate (no satellite) an AM in Georgia. We didn't voice track (although we could have), but it sounded pretty damned good...if I do say so myself.

Bottom Line...most of us that know and have worked with the Phantom for a while, mostly like it. I suspect that's because we know the quirks and shortcuts, AND because many of us haven't used anything else. That old comfort zone thing, you know.
<P ID="signature">______________
Jay Braswell - Moderator
Atlanta/North Florida/South Carolina/Georgia Boards</P>
 
Re: The Phantom

Actually, we did finally get the system doing what we wanted it to do, more or less...given the budget we had to work with at the time, and the amount of "original programming" we were forced to do, I'd say it worked pretty well.

I later learned (after I left the company) that they went with a RCS system because they couldn't make the damn thing work. I wonder why!! LOL...there was a file that was written specifically for me...called the Zach Setting. I felt so honored.

But, again, the Phantom wasn't really designed for originating programming, but for running satellite based stuff. Things have changed over the years, and now we have almost every flavor of automation system known. I'm using Vault2 right now, and I haven't had a problem out of it since I took over as chief engineer. Yet...

By the way...thanks for rememebering me!



> > The RDS Phantom...hands down best for talk/news
> programming.
>
> > Live-assist was a cludge.
>
> I've worked, pretty much exclusively, with the Phantom since
> 1993. I was even a dealer/consultant for a a few years. I'd
> have to say that Zach (Hey there, Zach) is more or less
> correct.
>
> The Phantom is "all DOS, all the time" and was originally
> and intentionally designed for satellite operations, from
> the floppy drive to the fan.
>
> If your needs are switching between satellite (audio &
> relay) sources, relay driven triggering of "on the log"
> audio breaks, as well as audio from rotations
> (sub-routines), relay or time based recording of audio (but
> not relay functions...unless they're 25/35 hz tones), then
> the Phantom is probably a good choice.
>
> You can get a new one (hardware is mostly proprietary) for
> about $6k...used for much less. Before you do, consider that
> there've been no updates in years, and RDS is a much less
> profitable division of the family owned company than it once
> was.
>
> For some time now, there's been talk of the parent company
> selling it's broadcast holdings (radio & TV), and I doubt
> anybody will be interested in RDS, if the rest does sell.
> Still, there are a few who know the system intimately, and
> many others who know a great deal, so I doubt you'd find
> yourself without some sort of tech support.
>
> I live with three Phantoms everyday (6 to 8 years of
> operation), and they basically get the job done, as far as
> our small market operations are concerned. Still, I'm
> looking to make a change. I've pretty much decided on
> MediaTouch. The price is good, and my engineer knows the
> stuff intimately.
>
> Zach's "live assist was a cludge" remark, comes from a
> mutually shared experience. In the late 90's, ABC in Dallas
> was contracted by Armed Forces Radio to "do" an alternative
> format for them, to be delivered via satellite.
>
> For some inexplicable reason, ABC decided to purchase a
> Phantom to handle this format (Brad Harrison was a damn good
> salesman). Zach was ABC's guy in charge, and I was engaged
> to go to Dallas for the "final install" and training.
>
> Mind you, the Phantom's strength was on the receiving end of
> the satellite receiver...NOT on the originating end. By the
> time I arrived, the music had been "hard dubbed" (no ripping
> allowed) into the system, and some basic clocks had been
> partially setup. As I remember, I don't think we got the
> damned thing to work like Zach wanted...at least, not right
> then. Later on, I think most of the kinks were worked out.
>
> I did use a Phantom to automate (no satellite) an AM in
> Georgia. We didn't voice track (although we could have), but
> it sounded pretty damned good...if I do say so myself.
>
> Bottom Line...most of us that know and have worked with the
> Phantom for a while, mostly like it. I suspect that's
> because we know the quirks and shortcuts, AND because many
> of us haven't used anything else. That old comfort zone
> thing, you know.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Zach Morton
Chief Engineer
Legend Communications
Gillette, Wyoming</P>
 
Re: The Phantom

Some additional notes on the Phantom...I'm very familiar with it also. It was a pretty popular system down here in South GA, and I still have 9 stations around here runnning on it 24/7. They are super-reliable systems...I've got one that's been running solid for 10 years with not a single lock-up or crash. The main 2 limitations of the system are: it's MP3 handling, and Networking capibility. In order to import and export files, you have to use NetBui (which no longer comes standard on windows). Importing files is a slow process as it has to convert each file to a .RDA. The newer systems that will use MP3's are very particular about those MP3's (especially when it comes to frame padding). Besides those, my biggest complaint with the box is the inability to copy a previous days log. You have to make a new log every day, block by block. It's a time consumer for sure. All that being said...I still think it's one of the best, most reliable, easy to use systems for satellite based automation. Also, being DOS-based, it's easily customizable. I've made a few of these boxes do some things that they were certainly never designed to do. Unfortunatley, the tech support has gone down hill. The last 2 times I've needed them, it's taken them over 24 hors to return my call...even though we pay for 24-hour service. I've advised most of my stations to end their maintenance contracts because 1: the system is so reliable, 2: the tech support is completely unreliable, and 3: I know as much or more about the system than most of the employees. Probably way more detail than anyone wanted to know, but that's my take on the Phantom.

-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net
www.rfspec.com
 
> My experience with Enco supoort has been very good - they
> are quite helpful (and they do speak english !?!).

Well, most of mine have been negative. And by speaking English, I mean speaking in such a way that someone who did NOT write the software can understand what they are asking for.<P ID="signature">______________
narniabanner.jpg
</P>
 
Re: The Phantom

> By the way...thanks for rememebering me!

And you me. And yes friends, there really is a "Zach Morton code" in detailed in every Phantom's "Advanced Topics" section of its onboard helpfile. <P ID="signature">______________
Jay Braswell - Moderator
Atlanta/North Florida/South Carolina/Georgia Boards</P>
 
Re: The Phantom

> Besides those, my biggest complaint with the box is the
> inability to copy a previous days log. You have to make a
> new log every day, block by block. It's a time consumer for
> sure.

Chris, I know this can be done, but I forget how. We always used it on all our demos...still got mine in the warehouse. I'll have to scratch around to remember exactly how we did, but it can be done, and easily.

I'll let you know.<P ID="signature">______________
Jay Braswell - Moderator
Atlanta/North Florida/South Carolina/Georgia Boards</P>
 
Re: The Phantom

> > The RDS Phantom...hands down best for talk/news
> programming.
>
> > Live-assist was a cludge.

Indeed. If you run all satellite all the time, the Phantom is going to run and run and run.

If you want live assist you will want to rip it out after the first week.

It does what it was designed to do very well. Don't try to push it outside of its comfort zone.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
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