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Automation Questions

L

level42

I'd like to ask everybody's opinions on Automation systems. I'm about to purchase a system for an LPFM and am considering NexGen 101. I do have experience with the product and have mixed feelings about it. I'd like to know what else is out there before I buy. Here's the requirements:

Will need to be able to control an external audio switcher (i.e. Broadcast Tools)

Will need to be able to accept closures from a Satellite feed

Will need very basic music scheduling of some sort

Must be effecient in the log-making/scheduling process

The system will be mostly used to insert legal ID's and brief local spots into a satellite feed, switch audio from a satellite feed to a local feed per daily schedule, and easily schedule half-hour and hour long locally produced programs. We will also need to be able to do production on the same computer while it is on the air with the automation. That pretty much limits us to Windows based systems. Oh, and it needs to be under $3000. Nexgen 101 is about the only thing I've found that fits the bill. Any other suggestions?


-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net
www.rfspec.com
 
Nexgen is awful.

As much as I hate simian, I'm starting to kinda like it. Works great in conjunction with the SS8.2 audio switcher and DSC32/64 satellite controller...and it's much cheaper than prophet.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Well, Simian will do most of this. It's around $1500. Doesn't have the logging but interfaces with natural log which is around $1,200 (or their companion music logging system--may be more useful for the LPFM than the logging program). That would seem to stay withing your budget.
 
Since it's an LPFM, He's not going to have to do a lot of "message" scheduling that a commercial station would do. So It might be cost effective to buy Natural Soft"s (I think that's the company name) music scheduling program.

We help out from time to time a non-com we built for the local school district (kilowatt @ 200 feet), that is their main gripe. They are using that German system (DRS-2000) which is supposed to schedule music but it doesn't. They run a block formatted eclectic music sked which includes oldies, bluegrass and some jazz, so music scheduling is a hassle.

The music scheduler is around $800 as I recall. Natural log will interface directly with Simian (if you talk to it nice), I imangine that the music scheduler would do the same.

Now to hi-jack this thread. Broadcast Tools now makes a 32 line GPI wich mates directly with two starguides (even includes the 37 pin cables), with apparently the same serial interface as their 8 line trigger device you are using. Been thinking about moving my Starguides out of the control room but need some way to talk to the computer through around 50' of cabling. Shielded control cable for serial? I have 17 kw 200 above the studio, (it's chicken-wired for a Faraday cage but...) What do you think?
 
> Since it's an LPFM, He's not going to have to do a lot of
> "message" scheduling that a commercial station would do. So
> It might be cost effective to buy Natural Soft"s (I think
> that's the company name) music scheduling program.

We've been using Raduga for over three years. It has been very stable and reliable. The full version is about $650, which includes a basic scheduler that is adequate for most LPFM stations. It also does a complete log. If you need more elaborate scheduling, there is a plug in scheduler for an additional $250 or so.

We do not use it to meet up with satellite automation, but I know that several stations do. There are a variety of third party accessories, like relay contact boxes, etc that are available at reasonable prices.

It may not be all things to all people, but it is easy to use, runs on any Windows PC (XP recommended) and it has never crashed on us. They also have a very good user forum (which anyone can look at) and when I've had a technical question, the program's author is quick to reply.

Perfect, it’s not, but “pretty good,” it is. At least, it works for me.
http://www.raduga.net/
 
> Since it's an LPFM, He's not going to have to do a lot of
> "message" scheduling that a commercial station would do. So
> It might be cost effective to buy Natural Soft"s (I think
> that's the company name) music scheduling program.
>
> We help out from time to time a non-com we built for the
> local school district (kilowatt @ 200 feet), that is their
> main gripe. They are using that German system (DRS-2000)
> which is supposed to schedule music but it doesn't. They
> run a block formatted eclectic music sked which includes
> oldies, bluegrass and some jazz, so music scheduling is a
> hassle.
>
> The music scheduler is around $800 as I recall. Natural log
> will interface directly with Simian (if you talk to it
> nice), I imangine that the music scheduler would do the
> same.
>
> Now to hi-jack this thread. Broadcast Tools now makes a 32
> line GPI wich mates directly with two starguides (even
> includes the 37 pin cables), with apparently the same serial
> interface as their 8 line trigger device you are using. Been
> thinking about moving my Starguides out of the control room
> but need some way to talk to the computer through around 50'
> of cabling. Shielded control cable for serial? I have 17
> kw 200 above the studio, (it's chicken-wired for a Faraday
> cage but...) What do you think?
> why not just use prophet's music gen scheduler.it's FREE and works great..and for the money the Nexgen 101 is a real bargain...starts at 495.00 and you add the modules you want...
 
I strongly considered Raduga...but couldn't find any reliable info about whether is would interface with an external audio switcher and relay closures. I would be very interested in speaking with anyone who has had experience with making Raduga run a Satellite network. Their website seems to be down everytime I want to look at it.

-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net
www.rfspec.com
 
> Nexgen is awful.

Come'on Sam. Most of the time i think your comments are very insightful, but when automation comes up, you seem to always make very negative and vague comments about Nexgen. Have you ever actually used it? It seems like you might have an axe to grind with Clear Channel.

> As much as I hate simian, I'm starting to kinda like it.
> Works great in conjunction with the SS8.2 audio switcher and
> DSC32/64 satellite controller...and it's much cheaper than
> prophet.

Simian is a crime against humanity. BSI has made some of the most unstable garbage i have ever touched. I haven't worked with it in about 2 years, but unless massive changes have swept through Eugene, I can't imagine anyone recommending their products. Not to mention live-assist with Simian is worse than awful.

HR
 
Get hold of Bill Spry. I believe It can run a switcher with another software attachment. I experimented with it years ago..
sorry but after trying many Automation packages. I personally Bought OMT I media Touch you know It may be what you call High Priced But you get what you pay for.. its Rock solid. Windows may crash thats normal But the Program its self has Not. in 3 years not a single hiccup that was not caused by someone not programming it correctly..Its like a timex just keeps On Ticking..
(and YES I Bought the automation for the station) call it my investment


> I strongly considered Raduga...but couldn't find any
> reliable info about whether is would interface with an
> external audio switcher and relay closures. I would be very
> interested in speaking with anyone who has had experience
> with making Raduga run a Satellite network. Their website
> seems to be down everytime I want to look at it.
>
> -Chris Hall
> www.reelaudio.net
> www.rfspec.com
>
 
> > Nexgen is awful.
>
> Come'on Sam. Most of the time i think your comments are
> very insightful, but when automation comes up, you seem to
> always make very negative and vague comments about Nexgen.
> Have you ever actually used it? It seems like you might
> have an axe to grind with Clear Channel.
>Let me chime in on that.i like Nexgen much better that the Scott Studios ss32,but both of these are much better than Raduga .simian imedia,and the rest of the junk..i dumped the ss32 for nexgen..i don't care who owns them..
> > As much as I hate simian, I'm starting to kinda like it.
> > Works great in conjunction with the SS8.2 audio switcher
> and
> > DSC32/64 satellite controller...and it's much cheaper than
>
> > prophet.
>
> Simian is a crime against humanity. BSI has made some of
> the most unstable garbage i have ever touched. I haven't
> worked with it in about 2 years, but unless massive changes
> have swept through Eugene, I can't imagine anyone
> recommending their products. Not to mention live-assist
> with Simian is worse than awful.
>
> HR
>
 
> Come'on Sam. Most of the time i think your comments are
> very insightful, but when automation comes up, you seem to
> always make very negative and vague comments about Nexgen.
> Have you ever actually used it? It seems like you might
> have an axe to grind with Clear Channel.

I'm probably one of the only people here who has NOT been screwed by CC...I have nothing against them.

I hate Nexgen's interface. I hate it's configuration. I hate the way it organizes things. It was such a step back from CFS16 that it makes me want to puke.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Simian is a crime against humanity. BSI has made some of
> the most unstable garbage i have ever touched. I haven't
> worked with it in about 2 years, but unless massive changes
> have swept through Eugene, I can't imagine anyone
> recommending their products. Not to mention live-assist
> with Simian is worse than awful.

Vague comments eh? Anyways.. Using BSI software without any problems for..oh.. about six years now. I would recommend their products any day. The best part is that you can try it out. If it isn't what you're looking for, then you didn't waste $$$. It works for my situation(automation, live assist, recording, satellites, etc) just well. Just don't cheap out and run it on an old system with a soundblaster card.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by marker101 on 10/25/05 09:52 PM.</FONT></P>
 
"Just don't cheap out and run it on an old system with a
> soundblaster card."
Good point.
Yes, the "low-end" Audio science card is not cheap--abt $550, but it is versatile. Since you can mix incoming audio through the card using Simian, that adds another layer of versatility to the system.

The OMT Media-touch system looks good, but if the station is running by itself much of the day, then I would suspect live-assist freindliness will not be as much of an issue as the external triggering and switching capabilities.
>
 
> I strongly considered Raduga...but couldn't find any
> reliable info about whether is would interface with an
> external audio switcher and relay closures. I would be very
> interested in speaking with anyone who has had experience
> with making Raduga run a Satellite network. Their website
> seems to be down everytime I want to look at it.
>
> -Chris Hall
> www.reelaudio.net
> www.rfspec.com
>

I was just looking at the Raduga discussion forum to give you the address, but I note that you've already been there and asked some questions. I think you even received a quick reply. I'm not selling anything, but I am a happy customer. I have always appreciated the prompt and personal help I’ve received from either Wolfgang Loch or Bill Spry.

There is a station in Florida that uses Raduga with satellites, and I believe they even sell an inexpensive relay control box for it. The link is on Raduga's web site.

I'm sure there are much more elaborate automation programs out there, but for the money, I've found Raduga to be an excellent product. It is very reliable, does not crash, and it is easy to use, even for non technical people. If it has a downside, I’ve found that it is a little awkward to use in either live or live assist modes, unless you build a break out box with stop, play and break buttons. That's easy to do, since it can be controlled through the game port on most computers. You can get everything you need from Radio Shack, although I’d recommend better quality push buttons.

We use Raduga with a Circuit Werkes DR-10 telephone interface which allows us to remotely stop a song at its end, switch to live remote via telephone, then switch back to automation and simultaneously start the next automation event. It works very well this way, making it easy to do one man remotes with nobody at the studio.

You might not want to use this program on a major market flame thrower, but for most LPFM and small to mid market stations, it will fill the bill at a very reasonable price.
 
Hear! Hear!

> I hate Nexgen's interface. I hate it's configuration. I
> hate the way it organizes things. It was such a step back
> from CFS16 that it makes me want to puke.

I've used every edition of Prophet since their very first.

Gotta agree that CFS16 was much easier to use than NexGen.
Haven't used the latest version of NexGen yet; maybe in a
few months. The first couple of whacks at NexGen were bug-
ridden, downright user-hostile. I had gotten decent at using
most of it but was away from it for a year and, when I went
back, re-discovered how illogical many of the interfaces are.

Still, unless I could get back CFS and have it supported, it
seems to be the most versatile around. Damn it.
<P ID="signature">______________
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! (if any)
--Friedrich Nietzsch</P>
 
Thanks for all the recommendations. I've beta-testing Raduga right now on my home computer, and it seems to be just the thing for LPFM and other smaller stations with basic requirements. Nexgen 101 is nice, but just a bit complicated for non-radio types (usually the ones running LPFM's). Also in my search I've discovered 2 new systems: WireReady and SMARTCASTER. Anyone have any time with those systems? They've both peaked my interest.

-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net (Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering Inc.)
www.rfspec.com (RF Specialties of GA)
 
I had a smartcaster (gag) Switched to OMT's I-MediaTouch
and not looking back. Smartcaster is now a doorstop.

> Thanks for all the recommendations. I've beta-testing
> Raduga right now on my home computer, and it seems to be
> just the thing for LPFM and other smaller stations with
> basic requirements. Nexgen 101 is nice, but just a bit
> complicated for non-radio types (usually the ones running
> LPFM's). Also in my search I've discovered 2 new systems:
> WireReady and SMARTCASTER. Anyone have any time with those
> systems? They've both peaked my interest.
>
> -Chris Hall
> www.reelaudio.net (Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering Inc.)
> www.rfspec.com (RF Specialties of GA)
>
 
> > Come'on Sam. Most of the time i think your comments are
> > very insightful, but when automation comes up, you seem to
>
> > always make very negative and vague comments about Nexgen.
>
> > Have you ever actually used it? It seems like you might
> > have an axe to grind with Clear Channel.
>
> I'm probably one of the only people here who has NOT been
> screwed by CC...I have nothing against them.

I am a CC stockholder...and I have been screwed by them...
BUT CFS was not a CC product...it was developed before CC owned them...
and NexGen is the next logical step of Prophet CFS. I dealt with CFS32 and NexGen 1.0..liked them both (actually liked CFS better in some cases)..
but the interface and the operation is pretty good...and it never gave me a problem....

> I hate Nexgen's interface. I hate it's configuration. I
> hate the way it organizes things. It was such a step back
> from CFS16 that it makes me want to puke.

I disagree.....I have not used NexGen101 but the full version I worked with was fine....
 
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