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Axl Rose complains about Los Angeles radio

OCradiodude said:
Some odd points in this article. Notice I didn't say good or bad:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2011/12/axl-rose-bemoans-the-state-of-la-radio.html

What station dumped their easy-listener audience? Certainly not the old K-LIT in transition to AAA.

I have no idea what he's talking about. Closest I can think of is the flip that Jill made from extreme female-leaning hot AC to a more extended library format, but that was no stunt. On the other hand, he hits the nail on the head here:

It kills me when someone will call KLOS from Builder's Emporium on their lunch break going, "Play Jethro Tull's 'Aqualung.' " It's like, why even request it? They're going to play it anyway. And they're going to play ZZ Top's "Legs." And why does everything have to sound old? The only time I hear fresh sounds is in movies.

Yep. They're going to play it anyway. Same goes for "Jumpin Jack Flash" and "You Shook Me All Night Long"
 
Funny! The frontman whose band almost singularly ruined Rock n Roll now finds fault with contemporary radio? :mad:
 
You're telling me that classic rock stations like to play the same hits over and over? Get outta town! Surely they would want to play nothing but songs that are completely obscure except to me and my buddies! No?! But I don't get it, how do they make money playing POPULAR music??
 
landtuna said:
Funny! The frontman whose band almost singularly ruined Rock n Roll now finds fault with contemporary radio? :mad:

LOL!!!! :D

My compliments on a winner of a comment landtuna! You could not be more correct.

For one thing, my first instinct is to ask Axl whether he wants some cheese with that whine. But overall, it's not even clear what he wants, his rant is muddled and full of statements based more on perception than reality. Not to mention a complete misunderstanding of what it takes to maintain an audience in radio today.
 
landtuna said:
Funny! The frontman whose band almost singularly ruined Rock n Roll now finds fault with contemporary radio? :mad:

A rock and roll artist with an ego that far exceeds his talent? No way!

While his complaint about rock radio being repetitive is received loud and clear, I hope he isn't speaking specifically about the lack of Guns n Roses on LA radio. They still get play on KLOS, KCBS, KYSR, and KROQ. At one point, they may have sold 11 million copies of an album, but so did TLC, Shania Twain, Alanis Morrisette and a few other artists who have been somewhat neglected at radio- if you consider their popularity at the time.

I think Axl's real complaint is that very few young people listen to straight up rock and roll now- and thats a different complaint entirely. He shouldn't be bitter that he squandered his fame and popularity for ego- only to return to making music at a time in which he was irrelevant.
 
OCradiodude said:
Some odd points in this article. Notice I didn't say good or bad:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2011/12/axl-rose-bemoans-the-state-of-la-radio.html

What station dumped their easy-listener audience? Certainly not the old K-LIT in transition to AAA.

I'm positive he was talking about 20 years ago, when KSRF (103.1) dumped their easy-listening format and spent 1 month transitioning to MARS-FM by playing all kinds of music from a different year each day, starting with 1961 and ending up in 1990 (example: Frank Zappa "I'm the Slime" or whatever right next to "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" on "1972 Day". At one point he even called the station and left a wildly effusive voice-mail testimonial praising the "greatest station in the history of the world" -- which MARS would play occasionally, AFTER the transition. I'm sure his enthusiastic blurbs inbetween weird techno tracks weren't quite what he had in mind when he originally made the call, but it was pretty funny at the time. I personally loved that obscure year-by-year "temporary" format (well, parts of it anyway) -- it was like listening to your whole musical life passing before your ears, one day at a time -- but can't imagine how a station could sustain such an undertaking for more than 3-4 weeks at a time; what would you do when time ran out and you reached the present day?
 
> Axl Rose complains about Los Angeles radio


I suggest he buy his own station -- KAXL?

He can certainly afford one.

dr
 
I thought San Diego Radio had really sunk, but the last few times I drove through LA it seemed to be even worse there. Because of the allowing of media consolidation, you have a few self-serving owners hogging the airwaves who don't really give a damn about quality programming. If FM Radio were as bad in the 70's as it is now, few would have ever bothered to leave AM Radio.
 
Ben Ston said:
I thought San Diego Radio had really sunk, but the last few times I drove through LA it seemed to be even worse there. Because of the allowing of media consolidation, you have a few self-serving owners hogging the airwaves who don't really give a damn about quality programming. If FM Radio were as bad in the 70's as it is now, few would have ever bothered to leave AM Radio.

I believe that the short version of this reads: "There is no station playing my personal favorite kind of music, and everything I don't like sucks."

Probably you can insert "rock" between "of" and "music" and still be accurate.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Ben Ston said:
I thought San Diego Radio had really sunk, but the last few times I drove through LA it seemed to be even worse there. Because of the allowing of media consolidation, you have a few self-serving owners hogging the airwaves who don't really give a damn about quality programming. If FM Radio were as bad in the 70's as it is now, few would have ever bothered to leave AM Radio.

I believe that the short version of this reads: "There is no station playing my personal favorite kind of music, and everything I don't like sucks."

Probably you can insert "rock" between "of" and "music" and still be accurate.

While I am not as familiar with other types of music, I can say for sure rock has been tragically stymied over the last several years and the main culprit is PPM. Or, more fairly, how programmers have reacted to PPM. Since the programmers get much more detailed information nearly to the minute, programmers are now far less likely to try anything that may result in a tune-out by even a fraction of the audience, since the PPM will record the tune-out immediately.

In the old diary world, people wrote down what they thought they listened to, which was in many cases different from what they actually listened to. So when their favorite station played a "clunker" and they changed the station for a few minutes or even longer, they still dutifully wrote down their favorite station without, in many cases, even acknowledging the station they turned to. Therefore no harm no foul to their favorite station. But with every tune-out being recorded in real time in a PPM world, no programmer wants to take chances (the stakes are too high, the potential for failure in the form of tune-out is too high) so they play the same tired cuts by the same tired artists, that have been consultant-tested and approved for years.

Think of many of your favorite acts - would they be given a chance if they were just starting out in radio today? Most likely not. Would a quirky band like Talking Heads make it into rock radio playlists today? Not a chance. The programmers would say "Too weird, to nerdy". Yet they became a rock staple with many mega-hits and mega-selling albums. In 1977 they got a chance. In 2011, no way.

If I ran a rock radio station today, I would identify one new band every month and play the hell out of them: give them lots o' spins, talk 'em up, have them come by to do a local show that the station would sponsor, give them an hour on a Sunday night to spin the songs that influence them and talk directly to the audience. You get the idea. Actively promote them. You would only need to play them once every 3-4 hours, so tune-out would be minimized. You can still play Aerosmith, Skynrd, and the Cars (or the equivalent active rock artists) afterwards, but over the course of a year, the station would be solely responsible for breaking (or at least giving the opportunity of a big break to) 12 up-and-coming bands. At the end of the year, take the best single from each band and put 'em on a station sponsored CD (or album download, whatever) much like KFOG does, and promote the bands and your station at the same time.

Of course not all bands will hit, in fact most won't. But some will. In time a few will hit it monster-big. And the station will be able to claim them as their own "home-grown" band. This would build reputation and lasting goodwill which will make up for any short-term PPM tune-outs. How many bands did KROQ break back in the day? How many bands know that but for KROQ, they'd be working a record store counter (or worse) somewhere? But most importantly, how much goodwill did KROQ earn? The station continues to live off of a heritage it built 30 years ago even to this day.

Somewhere out there, there is another Bruce Springsteen playing the bars or the small clubs. It just takes a Jon Landau to find him. Or an Elton John, who just needs a Robert Hilburn in the audience. The rock stations who need new, fresh content should be playing that role. But they're not. They're quite content to cue up the next cut off of the tired old playlist and invest zero dollars into their product. That playlist, and their response to PPM, is what will kill them.
 
Ben Ston said:
I thought San Diego Radio had really sunk, but the last few times I drove through LA it seemed to be even worse there. Because of the allowing of media consolidation, you have a few self-serving owners hogging the airwaves who don't really give a damn about quality programming. If FM Radio were as bad in the 70's as it is now, few would have ever bothered to leave AM Radio.

Does that same logic apply to television media consolidation, and therefore there is no quality TV programming?
 
ChannelFlipper said:
While I am not as familiar with other types of music, I can say for sure rock has been tragically stymied over the last several years and the main culprit is PPM. Or, more fairly, how programmers have reacted to PPM. Since the programmers get much more detailed information nearly to the minute, programmers are now far less likely to try anything that may result in a tune-out by even a fraction of the audience, since the PPM will record the tune-out immediately.

In the old diary world, people wrote down what they thought they listened to, which was in many cases different from what they actually listened to. So when their favorite station played a "clunker" and they changed the station for a few minutes or even longer, they still dutifully wrote down their favorite station without, in many cases, even acknowledging the station they turned to. Therefore no harm no foul to their favorite station. But with every tune-out being recorded in real time in a PPM world, no programmer wants to take chances (the stakes are too high, the potential for failure in the form of tune-out is too high) so they play the same tired cuts by the same tired artists, that have been consultant-tested and approved for years.

Think of many of your favorite acts - would they be given a chance if they were just starting out in radio today? Most likely not. Would a quirky band like Talking Heads make it into rock radio playlists today? Not a chance. The programmers would say "Too weird, to nerdy". Yet they became a rock staple with many mega-hits and mega-selling albums. In 1977 they got a chance. In 2011, no way.

If I ran a rock radio station today, I would identify one new band every month and play the hell out of them: give them lots o' spins, talk 'em up, have them come by to do a local show that the station would sponsor, give them an hour on a Sunday night to spin the songs that influence them and talk directly to the audience. You get the idea. Actively promote them. You would only need to play them once every 3-4 hours, so tune-out would be minimized. You can still play Aerosmith, Skynrd, and the Cars (or the equivalent active rock artists) afterwards, but over the course of a year, the station would be solely responsible for breaking (or at least giving the opportunity of a big break to) 12 up-and-coming bands. At the end of the year, take the best single from each band and put 'em on a station sponsored CD (or album download, whatever) much like KFOG does, and promote the bands and your station at the same time.

Of course not all bands will hit, in fact most won't. But some will. In time a few will hit it monster-big. And the station will be able to claim them as their own "home-grown" band. This would build reputation and lasting goodwill which will make up for any short-term PPM tune-outs. How many bands did KROQ break back in the day? How many bands know that but for KROQ, they'd be working a record store counter (or worse) somewhere? But most importantly, how much goodwill did KROQ earn? The station continues to live off of a heritage it built 30 years ago even to this day.

Somewhere out there, there is another Bruce Springsteen playing the bars or the small clubs. It just takes a Jon Landau to find him. Or an Elton John, who just needs a Robert Hilburn in the audience. The rock stations who need new, fresh content should be playing that role. But they're not. They're quite content to cue up the next cut off of the tired old playlist and invest zero dollars into their product. That playlist, and their response to PPM, is what will kill them.

Good post, Flapper.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
While I am not as familiar with other types of music, I can say for sure rock has been tragically stymied over the last several years and the main culprit is PPM. Or, more fairly, how programmers have reacted to PPM.

No, I don't think this is specific to PPM. It is, however, specific to rock. If you can track down the Edison Research studies from 2000 and 2010 about youth media and entertainment habits, you can see that rock, in all its forms, is in severe decline among younger people.

(Here is a starting link: http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/...n_youth_study_2010_part_one_radios_future.php)

In general terms, teens in 2010 had about half the interest in rock as they did in 2000. A control group of those who would have been teens in 2010 and who are now ten years older was included and showed even less interest in rock than ten years ago. The original study showed that rock was only of interest to something like 9% of youth 11 years ago...

The problem with rock is a declining interest among most younger listeners and no growth of interest after the teen years where, apparently, interest declines.
 
Manny Michaels said:
ChannelFlipper said:
While I am not as familiar with other types of music, I can say for sure rock has been tragically stymied over the last several years and the main culprit is PPM. Or, more fairly, how programmers have reacted to PPM. Since the programmers get much more detailed information nearly to the minute, programmers are now far less likely to try anything that may result in a tune-out by even a fraction of the audience, since the PPM will record the tune-out immediately.

In the old diary world, people wrote down what they thought they listened to, which was in many cases different from what they actually listened to. So when their favorite station played a "clunker" and they changed the station for a few minutes or even longer, they still dutifully wrote down their favorite station without, in many cases, even acknowledging the station they turned to. Therefore no harm no foul to their favorite station. But with every tune-out being recorded in real time in a PPM world, no programmer wants to take chances (the stakes are too high, the potential for failure in the form of tune-out is too high) so they play the same tired cuts by the same tired artists, that have been consultant-tested and approved for years.

Think of many of your favorite acts - would they be given a chance if they were just starting out in radio today? Most likely not. Would a quirky band like Talking Heads make it into rock radio playlists today? Not a chance. The programmers would say "Too weird, to nerdy". Yet they became a rock staple with many mega-hits and mega-selling albums. In 1977 they got a chance. In 2011, no way.

If I ran a rock radio station today, I would identify one new band every month and play the hell out of them: give them lots o' spins, talk 'em up, have them come by to do a local show that the station would sponsor, give them an hour on a Sunday night to spin the songs that influence them and talk directly to the audience. You get the idea. Actively promote them. You would only need to play them once every 3-4 hours, so tune-out would be minimized. You can still play Aerosmith, Skynrd, and the Cars (or the equivalent active rock artists) afterwards, but over the course of a year, the station would be solely responsible for breaking (or at least giving the opportunity of a big break to) 12 up-and-coming bands. At the end of the year, take the best single from each band and put 'em on a station sponsored CD (or album download, whatever) much like KFOG does, and promote the bands and your station at the same time.

Of course not all bands will hit, in fact most won't. But some will. In time a few will hit it monster-big. And the station will be able to claim them as their own "home-grown" band. This would build reputation and lasting goodwill which will make up for any short-term PPM tune-outs. How many bands did KROQ break back in the day? How many bands know that but for KROQ, they'd be working a record store counter (or worse) somewhere? But most importantly, how much goodwill did KROQ earn? The station continues to live off of a heritage it built 30 years ago even to this day.

Somewhere out there, there is another Bruce Springsteen playing the bars or the small clubs. It just takes a Jon Landau to find him. Or an Elton John, who just needs a Robert Hilburn in the audience. The rock stations who need new, fresh content should be playing that role. But they're not. They're quite content to cue up the next cut off of the tired old playlist and invest zero dollars into their product. That playlist, and their response to PPM, is what will kill them.

Good post, Flapper.

Thanks, Minnie.
 
DavidEduardo said:
ChannelFlipper said:
While I am not as familiar with other types of music, I can say for sure rock has been tragically stymied over the last several years and the main culprit is PPM. Or, more fairly, how programmers have reacted to PPM.

No, I don't think this is specific to PPM. It is, however, specific to rock. If you can track down the Edison Research studies from 2000 and 2010 about youth media and entertainment habits, you can see that rock, in all its forms, is in severe decline among younger people.

(Here is a starting link: http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/...n_youth_study_2010_part_one_radios_future.php)

In general terms, teens in 2010 had about half the interest in rock as they did in 2000. A control group of those who would have been teens in 2010 and who are now ten years older was included and showed even less interest in rock than ten years ago. The original study showed that rock was only of interest to something like 9% of youth 11 years ago...

The problem with rock is a declining interest among most younger listeners and no growth of interest after the teen years where, apparently, interest declines.

David, I think you are confusing cause and effect, and in fact have illustrated my point for me. The lack of any risk-taking by rock programmers causes the product to become stale, and over the years young listeners who once listened to rock find it to be repetitive and dull and then find something else to listen to.

It is a complete generational role reversal in that CHR is now more evolving and fresh than rock, which has been stale for at least 20 years and probably longer than that. CHR today sounds nothing like CHR did 20 years ago, and rock today sounds almost exactly like it did 20 years ago. This might be cliche, but rock has become everything that it once rebelled against. Meet the new Stones, same as the old Stones.
 
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