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B101 HD No More?

Since last night, B101's HD signal has disappeared. Just antenna/tower work...or did Jerry Lee want to shave some money off the electric bill and flick it off for good?

Not to be devious...but here in Central Jersey with B101 analog only, I can finally listen to CBS-FM again in the car in HD.
 
It probably means that Jerry Lee has come to his senses about this.

Before embracing Huge Disaster digital, Jerry's only previous mistake in the business was trying to do Beautiful Music, or "BM," on the AM band.

You may recall that he bought WFIL, which had failed with both country and oldies after having ceded the Top 40 audience to FM. At the time he was taking a chance by flipping his still very successful BM station, then WDVR, to a sort of hybrid of MOR (think late 70's WIP) and BM as WEAZ. That proved to be wise, almost prescient. But at the same time, he wanted to keep his still significant (though aging) audience for straight-up BM.

He thought it would work on AM, but it didn't. That audience actually liked the sound of Mantovani and friends on FM -- not audiophile FM, but the sound they got from their "fruitwood boxes" (stereo "consoles") and name brand FM table radios -- better than they liked the music itself. In fact, it was that sound thet defined the format for them, and they didn't get that exaggerated, sugary treble from AM!

Jerry eventually sold WFIL (which he had restyled WEAZ-AM!) to Salem at a loss. But that was better than continuing to lose money on the operation. And besides, he was making plenty from the FM station! (And if Salem never restored WFIL to its former glories, at least they restored its historic call sign.)

So why did Jerry ever get involved with "iNiquity" and their flawed system? Probably just industry politics. He was a radio board member at NAB, and was somehow cajoled into it. I doubt that would have happened if his orignal patrner -- the late Dave Kurtz, who was a very competent and very honest engineer -- had stilll been actively involved in running B101 and able to advise him!
 
Yeah, it has been off for over a week. I can now once again get 101.3 The Rose loud -n- clear with RDS. Wired 96.5's HD was also off for a couple of days but it is back on.
 
Re: B101 HD No More? GOING SOUTH!

I had heard on the HD Radio board (from a notorious source) that HD Radio is in high demand in Panama and Brazil. Perhaps they made him an offer he couldn't refuse and he sent it south.

GOOD RIDDDANCE! ;D
 
radioskeptic said:
It probably means that Jerry Lee has come to his senses about this.

Before embracing Huge Disaster digital, Jerry's only previous mistake in the business was trying to do Beautiful Music, or "BM," on the AM band.

So why did Jerry ever get involved with "iNiquity" and their flawed system? Probably just industry politics. He was a radio board member at NAB, and was somehow cajoled into it. I doubt that would have happened if his orignal patrner -- the late Dave Kurtz, who was a very competent and very honest engineer -- had stilll been actively involved in running B101 and able to advise him!

Did someone from iBiquity run over your dog or something? I really don't get the HD Radio hate - it has its drawbacks true, but so does every other technology the FCC has approved over the last 70 years or so. When it kicks in, it sounds nice when done right - 101.1 CBS-FM sounds like gangbusters in HD compared to analog, and 97.5 sounds night & day with digital vs analog.

Done wrong, it can sound horrible. All depends on the airchain and the quality of the audio going over the air. But the same thing can be said of analog....garbage in, garbage out. And it does need the boost to -10 db to work outside of the protected contour, but it is nice when it works. I was listening to Ben HD2 most of the way home from my friends apartment in Germantown the other night, with some of OGL's "All 70's" thrown in.

Dont get me wrong - it's not a cure for what ails radio - its the message not the medium that needs the attention. The HD just takes the multipath distortion out of it.
 
bigtom101 said:
radioskeptic said:
It probably means that Jerry Lee has come to his senses about this.

Before embracing Huge Disaster digital, Jerry's only previous mistake in the business was trying to do Beautiful Music, or "BM," on the AM band.

So why did Jerry ever get involved with "iNiquity" and their flawed system? Probably just industry politics. He was a radio board member at NAB, and was somehow cajoled into it. I doubt that would have happened if his orignal patrner -- the late Dave Kurtz, who was a very competent and very honest engineer -- had stilll been actively involved in running B101 and able to advise him!

Did someone from iBiquity run over your dog or something? I really don't get the HD Radio hate - it has its drawbacks true, but so does every other technology the FCC has approved over the last 70 years or so. When it kicks in, it sounds nice when done right - 101.1 CBS-FM sounds like gangbusters in HD compared to analog, and 97.5 sounds night & day with digital vs analog.
Stations that use iNiqity's noise jammer HD which stands for Huge Disaster jam co-channel stations coast to coast at night and raise the noise floor unbeknownst to the average consumer who just thinks AM is getting noisier and noisier. FM iBlock also creates more co-channel interference than you realize, it is a noisy scourge which thankfully is not selling. Reception is unreliable unless you have an outside antenna ala 1958 which no consumer is going to do in 2009. If this is supposed to be an upgrade ::), it will only hasten consumers to trash their radios and get Satellite or other computer forms of music. Get 'em while they're hot! But be prepared to receive good old analog again (only) in a few years as radio gets tired of paying good money to iNiquity for 13 listeners.
 
KB1OKL said:
Stations that use iNiqity's noise jammer HD which stands for Huge Disaster jam co-channel stations coast to coast at night and raise the noise floor unbeknownst to the average consumer who just thinks AM is getting noisier and noisier. FM iBlock also creates more co-channel interference than you realize, it is a noisy scourge which thankfully is not selling. Reception is unreliable unless you have an outside antenna ala 1958 which no consumer is going to do in 2009. If this is supposed to be an upgrade ::), it will only hasten consumers to trash their radios and get Satellite or other computer forms of music. Get 'em while they're hot! But be prepared to receive good old analog again (only) in a few years as radio gets tired of paying good money to iNiquity for 13 listeners.

The noise on AM has been there long before IBOC came along - automotive electrical/ignition systems, CFL bulbs, computer equipment, and more recently BPL have been raising the noise floor on AM. Not to mention the crap AM radios that have been produced over the past few decades. Only AM radio that sounded good in the car was the AMAX certified unit in my 96 Cadillac deVille.

But as for FM - IBOC doesnt cause this horrible sidechannel interference that you speak of. It was designed to fit within the pre-existing mask. I have 3 HD radios, and using them my reception has only gotten better, not worse. The only place that it would possibly cause interference is on the fringes of the signal. Unless you can show me hard technical evidence of the FM jamming, then I remain unconvinced that it's actually happening.
 
I wanted to reply to “bigtom101's” reply to my post last night, but the site was down. Since then, he’s posted a reply to “KB10KL.” So now I’ll address both of those posts.

In Reply # 7, he says:

The noise on AM has been there long before IBOC came along - automotive electrical/ignition systems, CFL bulbs, computer equipment, and more recently BPL have been raising the noise floor on AM.

Actually, Ibiquity’s Hiss-o-Matic began showing up on the consolidators’ AM stations a little before compact flourescent bulbs became commonplace. And as for BPL, read this:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2009/05/08/10811/?nc=1

We now have proof that the FCC has suppressed evidence unfavorable to BPL as a favor to the power companies. Can there be any doubt that they’ve done the same with "HD" for the NAB and Ibiquity?

The FCC is corrupt. I don’t mean the professional engineering staff, who are suffering in a McCarthyesque atmosphere, but some of the political appointees who oversee them. Those hacks just can’t seem to bend over backward far enough to accommodate the most outrageous demands of big business. Regulation? Surely you jest!

Also in Reply # 7, he says:

But as for FM - IBOC doesn[’]t cause this horrible sidechannel interference that you speak of. It was designed to fit within the pre-existing mask. I have 3 HD radios, and using them my reception has only gotten better, not worse. The only place that it would possibly cause interference is on the fringes of the signal. Unless you can show me hard technical evidence of the FM jamming, then I remain unconvinced that it’s actually happening.

That, of course is absurd. FM IBOC was not designed to fit the conventional FM mask. The two independent signals are in the first-adjacent channels, well beyond the frequency limits of a station’s own channel.

As for the FM interference question, refer to Replies 16 and 17 on the thread "Q102 - No longer speeding up the music," where Nick said, “I'm sorry about saying that all classical stations are obnoxious. It's not the music, it's their frequency. WWFM 89.1's IBUZ interferes with [WBZC} Z88.9...,” and I replied: “It seems we have a common enemy in IBUZ. Here in New Jersey, about 20 miles south of the Roxborough antenna farm, I could occasionally pick up WQXR. Not any more, since Beasley turned on the IBUZ on 96.5!”

I also used to be able to get an Ocean City, NJ station on 98.3, and not just occasionally, until CBS’s 98.1 began I-BUZZing. The same radio (a Tandberg TP-41) can still get WWFM’s WWCJ from Cape May, also on 89.1, though it sends most of its signal out to sea in order to protect both its own co-channel sister station in Trenton and NJN’s first-adjacent WNJB (89.3) in Bridgeton – and the latter is almost directly in the path between Cape May and me. So it’s not that my radio can’t cut it anymore!

But Big Tom did get one thing right in Reply # 5 – well, sort of:

Dont get me wrong - it's not a cure for what ails radio – it[’]s the message not the medium that needs the attention. The HD just takes the multipath distortion out of it.

Yes, “HD” does seem to solve the multipath problem in some situations – if you can get it to lock! But that’s only because the two side-channel signals are separated by over 240 kilocycles – more than an entire FM channel! – and thus are not corrupted by multipath in exactly the same way at exactly the same time. “HD” FM depends on the redundancy of data between the two side channels, and the fact that both are not corrupted in the same way at the same time (because of their slightly different wavelengths), to recreate the signal consistently. But it can only do that as long as both signals are present. If a substantial number of stations are allowed to increase their digital power by 10 dB, as “HD” advocates want, many stations will lose that multipath advantage in parts of their predicted increased “HD” coverage area because of interference either from a first-adjacent’s analog signal, or from a co-channel’s HD signal.

And that won’t be restricted to the educational band, where the stations are packed like sardines. Most major stations in New York and Philadelphia are in first-adjacent pairs. So that power increase may well make “HD” FM lose its vaunted multipath advantage, which is its only real technical advantage.

“And it does need the boost to -10 db to work outside of the protected contour,” he says, oblivious to the arguments of “HD” apologists who tell us that we’re not supposed to get even an analog signal beyond its protected contour – and that’s their response to legitimate complaints about the interference “HD” creates!

I could go on, but why? This guy is just another ill-informed apologist for a failed technology.
 
radioskeptic said:
I could go on, but why? This guy is just another ill-informed apologist for a failed technology.

"Ill-informed apologist" - wow, you picked the wrong radio geek to apply that to. I can assure you, I am not ill-informed. And I don't apologize for the technologies shortcomings - trust me, I don't get a check cut to me or anything for my opinion about the technology. But lets live in the realm of fact, shall we? The reason you are able to get analog signals as well as you can is not because of the magic of analog - its the improvements in tuner design that have happened in the 50+ years since Major Armstrong built that tower over in Alpine.

FM IBOC doesn't cause this massive interference that you speak of - at leas in places where you are supposed to be in the coverage area. I don't expect to get WOGL on 287 within spitting distance of WMGQ - and with WSQK having its HD on. But I do - cause I have a DSP based HD radio and a solid antenna on my car. WBEN & WRAT have no problems with each other - IBOC or not - here in Monmouth County. When WRAT was testing -10 dB power levels, I was able to get both using my Sony HD radio by only repositioning the dipole that came with the radio. Pretty impressive feat for living the the radio dead zone that is Western Monmouth. One NRSC report I read said that there was the possibility of 1st adjacent channel interference - heres the text:

"•Co-channel – No impact
• 1st adjacent listeners within protected contour should not receive interference,
however a number of radios outside the protected contour may receive
interference.
• For 2nd adjacent, a limited number of home type receivers may experience
interference for -30 to -40 D/U’s and lower."

So if your outside the protected contour, then there's a chance that your getting interference. But here's the thing - the station wasn't licensed to cover where you are outside of the coverage area. And don't get angry at the congested FM band here in the Northeast - blame the FCC for shoehorning as many Class A stations as they could. I live an hour away from WJRZ's transmitter - the "for entertainment purpose only" Rado-Locator map says that I shouldn't even get the station where I live. But I can still get it, with Z100 in HD no less. With RDS, and if the antenna is aimed right, the HD locks. But seeing as how I am nowhere near the area they are licensed to cover, my reception of them is pure gravy. Its the tuners - in this case, my HD Jump & the Sony HD radio I mentioned before. Using a cheap radio or a poorly designed tuner (keyword for almost any radio made recently under 100 bucks), you'll get interference. But many stations splatter onto each other by cranking up the modulation level way past whats legal to win the loudness war, and little is done in some cases.

The NRSC paper continues with possible reasons for interference with FM IBOC:

"FM shortspaced stations
Overpower Grandfathered Stations
Stations meeting FCC minimum spacings but having contour overlap
Dual antenna installations
‘Grungy’ installations"

In otherwords, its either the technology not being installed properly (dual antennas/out of spec transmitters *grunge*) or its the result of the tech being used when the FCC had a pre-existing problem with stations existing where they shouldn't have.

I am not the biggest fan of AM HD - I loved C-QUAM, and used to yank car stereos out of junkyard cars to have a radio with C-QUAM in it. All so I could get my Sunday with Sinatra fix in Stereo, and hear KB 1520 with a bit of extra bandwidth - and Jack Armstrong deserved all of it. I personally wish that C-QUAM was used over AM HD. But FM HD kicks for sound quality - WCBS-FM in NY has the best audio I have heard hands down, and it got even better with the new studios.

I am no expert in this - just a radio geek who reads whatever papers the NRSC puts out, and the studies that NPR & iBiquity have done. And also picked the brains of the engineers where I work - one of whom has done multiple HD installations. It isnt perfect - then again, no system (analog or digital) is. The system picked for analog color TV had its drawbacks, and even the Zenith/GE system for FM stereo isn't perfect. And C-QUAM had issues with platform motion, and still does to an extent even after Motorola refined the technology. IBOC is not the demon it is made out to be - hell, the fact that it got a bunch of great DSP based tuners to the market is a good thing.

Another thing: I don't like iBiquity's way of squeezing every last cent from their patents - and the cost of the technology for anyone to start using is astronomical. Even for the college station I program to get the LICENSE (not even the equipment) was around $15,000. Not even taking into account the new transmitter and antenna we would have to buy to start using HD. I'm not the apologist that you may think I am - I can see more than one side to the issue of IBOC on both AM & FM. But cruising around CT listening to DRC FM's HD-2 "Big D 103" had me grinning from ear to ear - and any radio (digital or not) that could do that had me sold.
 
Reguardless about how you feel about HD radio(and it am still not sure as a consumer) It's free, it has it's quirks and the general publc really doesn't care about AM radio. AM HD sucks but moving AM channels to alternate HD FM frequencies only makes sense. I am sure the system will improve as time goes on. It's sorta like taking a medication. You gotta ask, do the side effects of HD radio outweigh the benefits?

Although currently HD Radio may seem like it's on life support, it will suceed if it's given time. Remember many consumers have no idea what HD radio is and the same consumer with rabbit ears will be wondering today why their TV isn't working and wonder what this digital TV thingie is and somhow think it's related to HD radio!
 
bigtom101 said:
KB1OKL said:
Stations that use iNiqity's noise jammer HD which stands for Huge Disaster jam co-channel stations coast to coast at night and raise the noise floor unbeknownst to the average consumer who just thinks AM is getting noisier and noisier. FM iBlock also creates more co-channel interference than you realize, it is a noisy scourge which thankfully is not selling. Reception is unreliable unless you have an outside antenna ala 1958 which no consumer is going to do in 2009. If this is supposed to be an upgrade ::), it will only hasten consumers to trash their radios and get Satellite or other computer forms of music. Get 'em while they're hot! But be prepared to receive good old analog again (only) in a few years as radio gets tired of paying good money to iNiquity for 13 listeners.

The noise on AM has been there long before IBOC came along - automotive electrical/ignition systems, CFL bulbs, computer equipment, and more recently BPL have been raising the noise floor on AM. Not to mention the crap AM radios that have been produced over the past few decades. Only AM radio that sounded good in the car was the AMAX certified unit in my 96 Cadillac deVille.


Those interferences have been around for a while yes, but all pale in comparison to the 50 Khz of illegal noise that IBOC spews onto the AM band which was doing just fine until this pointless unworkable jamming technology came along.


But as for FM - IBOC doesnt cause this horrible sidechannel interference that you speak of. It was designed to fit within the pre-existing mask. I have 3 HD radios, and using them my reception has only gotten better, not worse. The only place that it would possibly cause interference is on the fringes of the signal. Unless you can show me hard technical evidence of the FM jamming, then I remain unconvinced that it's actually happening.

FM IBOC does not fit into the mask, look it up. At 1% injection the co-channel interference is already evident in some areas, especially down between 88 and 92 where most NPR stations are located, this is why they are not thrilled with the proposed 10% injection rate. iBlock is dieing a slow painful death, breaks my heart.
 
athegymtday said:
Reguardless about how you feel about HD radio(and it am still not sure as a consumer) It's free, it has it's quirks and the general publc really doesn't care about AM radio. AM HD sucks but moving AM channels to alternate HD FM frequencies only makes sense. I am sure the system will improve as time goes on. It's sorta like taking a medication. You gotta ask, do the side effects of HD radio outweigh the benefits

Although currently HD Radio may seem like it's on life support, it will suceed if it's given time. Remember many consumers have no idea what HD radio is and the same consumer with rabbit ears will be wondering today why their TV isn't working and wonder what this digital TV thingie is and somhow think it's related to HD radio!
Am does not need to move to FM, AM IBOC needs to be shut off, simple as that, it's a public nuisance which is illegal according to the FCC's own ignored harmful interference laws. AM wideband sounds great, at least as good as analog FM. AM HD (when you can actually get one to come in) sounds like saccharine for the ears, the artificial highs grate on the ears like nails on a chalk board after a few minutes.
HD is not succeeding, no where near it, IBOC has always been on life support, supported by the Alliance members who for some strange reason seem to think that IBOC (which only hurts radio) will save it, what a joke. It doesn't sound any better, the range is severely compromised, it's creating all kinds of adjacent channel noise on both AM and FM, no one is buying the radios they are unavailable except for a precious few online and it's dividing the engineering and radio community, yup that HD is great stuff. And..... the plugs are getting pulled more and more often, why? Because it is a waste of money to spend all that extra electricity for 13 listeners.
Digital TV is another scam perpetuated to pull more money from the consumer. The only people that care about digital anything besides a small amount of enthusiasts pro and con are the people who are making the dough from it, most people could not care less about either digital TV and radio.
 
KB1OKL said:
Digital TV is another scam perpetuated to pull more money from the consumer. The only people that care about digital anything besides a small amount of enthusiasts pro and con are the people who are making the dough from it, most people could not care less about either digital TV and radio.

Wow...you really have me speechless with that one. All those people at Best Buy buying ATSC capable sets must be dupes...who the hell would want a signal with subchannels and HD picture? Same thing with CD's - must have been a scam to get people to ditch all the great vinyl with pop's & scratches and turntable rumble!

I have a HDTV set at home hooked up to FiOS - best picture ever. My computer outputs 720p over to the set to watch Blu Ray rips...must have been duped into that.

HDTV looks better than analog TV (unless your cable company has compressed the crap out of it), and I still say that HD Radio sounds better than analog (unless the source material is questionable). If it sounds like ass, its the (a) the processing, (b) crappy MP2 files being re compressed, or some other issue with the STL or the install. It is a digital world....like it or not.
 
HDTV has either 6.75 times the resolution of SDTV or 3 times the resolution plus twice the refresh rate. It's night and day.

I don't think the difference between HDTV and SDTV compares to the difference between analog radio and HD radio.
 
“I am no expert in this,” says Big Tom, “just a radio geek who reads whatever papers the NRSC puts out, and the studies that NPR & iBiquity have done.”

He’s no expert, certainly. But he’s also naive if he trusts the NRSC papers. The NRSC isn’t just controlled by the biggest radio companies and the NAB . It’s composed almost entirely of representatives from those entities.

But has he read that latest NPR paper, where they express misgivings about the digital power increase? If “FM IBOC doesn't cause this massive interference that you speak of,” as he claims, then why is NPR suddenly so concerned about the likely effects of a digital power increase?

NPR is too coy to put express their misgivings so bluntly. After all, they’ve invested a lot of their prestige in promoting this folly.

But don’t worry. It isn’t going to happen anyway. Why not? Cost.

An FM signal has constant amplitude, and thus can be amplified through a highly efficient Class C stage, just like radio telegraphy. An “HD FM” signal, in contrast, isn’t and FM signal at all. It uses Coded Orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiplexing (COFDM), with several subcarriers, yielding some fairly large amplitude swings in the signal. And that requires linear amplification. So hybrid transmitters require linear finals, which have much lower efficiency (well below 50 percent, versus 70 percent for Class C finals). They also generate much more heat, adding to air conditioning costs!

Most of the stations that have already gone “HD” bought new “HD” hybrid transmitters to do it. The only alternative was to buy a second, smaller transmitter just for the digital signal and either (a) use a combiner (which wastes a lot of power) to send both signals to the same antenna, or (b) use a separate antenna for the digital signal (which can create coverage problems from interaction between the two antennas).

Now those current “HD” transmitters are still too new to be fully amortized, and they’re supposed to replace them even more expensive, newer ones, that will increase the electric bill even more? Where’s the money coming from? Is the CPB going to give out new grants, twice as large as the first ones?

And it’s even worse for most of the big consolidators. Have you checked Clear Channel’s stock price lately? They and some others (notably Citadel and Cumulus) are on the verge of bankruptcy! So don’t expect any major capital investments.

Now about the comparative sound quality of analog FM and tag-along digital signal:

When it [HD] kicks in, it sounds nice when done right - 101.1 CBS-FM sounds like gangbusters in HD compared to analog, and 97.5 sounds night & day with digital vs analog.

That’s an indictment of those stations’ audio processing for analog, not of analog itself. Analog technology, done right, always sounds better than digital. That’s why some pop recordings are still done on multi-track analog masters and mixed down into digital.

Analog FM is excellent. Unfortunately, our standard analog stereo FM system uses a DSB-SC difference subcarrier. That’ just AM sans carrier, and it’s relatively noisy. The FCC should have used an FM subcarrier. Major Armstrong could have told them. In fact, he did, in his 1936 paper, “A Method of Reducing Disturbances in Radio Signaling by a System of Frequency Modulation,” in the Proceedings of the Institute of Radio Engineers, XXIV:5 (May 1936), on page 734. After describing the use of first an AM and then an FM subcarrier, here’s what he said:

This latter method of multiplexing [with an FM subcarrier] has obvious advantages in the reduction of cross modulation between the channels and in the fact that the deviation of the transmitted wave produced by the second channel is constant in extent, an advantage being gained thereby which is somewhat akin to that obtained by frequency, as compared to amplitude, modulation in simplex operation.

The only real problem with stereo analog FM is that, unless the signal is relatively strong, it’s noisy. If we had an all-FM system, with an FM subcarrier for the stereo difference, we’d have good quieting in stereo almost up to the point where the signal becomes too weak for good mono reception. Most of the bad processing we’ve been hearing for the past 30 years (since FM listening surpassed AM) is an attempt to overcome the inevitable background noise that plagues this inferior system (or in some cases, just an attempt to sound louder than the competition). Again, blame the FCC, in this case for choosing the GE-Zenith half-AM system, which was backed by big money, over the all-FM system proposed by Murray Crosby.

But Big Tom sees at least one aspect of this whole mess clearly:

I don't like iBiquity's way of squeezing every last cent from their patents - and the cost of the technology for anyone to start using is astronomical. Even for the college station I program to get the LICENSE (not even the equipment) was around $15,000. Not even taking into account the new transmitter and antenna we would have to buy to start using HD.

Well, Tom, there’s a much better solution. It’s called FMeXtra. It would cost your station only around $15,000 for the hardware. And there’s no licensing fee (the only licensing fee is the one the manufacturer pays Digital Radio Express, Inc., and that’s a one-time fee embedded in the purchase price). The encoder fits in a standard 19-inch rack, and consumes only about as much power as your desktop computer. (Granted, it’s not the answer to multipath, but “HD” won’t be either in most cases if that 10-dB hike goes through. See Reply # 8 above.)

In fact, I’d recommend FMeXtra to all NCE’s. Pubcasters – not all of them, but enough – are the only ones who have tried to provide worthwhile programming on HD-2 and -3 channels. The commercial stations just have a computer playing indifferently programmed junk. (Incidentally, this is true in television, too. Some months ago, I borrowed a converter box, and what do you think I found on WPVI’s “channel 6.2” at 8 on a week night? An “info-mercial” for a quack “colon cleanse” diet nostrum that’s being investigated by the FDA! Is this Disney’s idea of a good use for this technology – in prime time, no less? And you wonder why I’m not eager to buy a new digital TV? I can do quite nicely with a converter box, thank you.)

And now that I’ve found one point of agreement with Tom (about Ibiquity’s rapacious approach to patent licensing), it’s time to end this very long post, before the moderator decides to move this thread to the “HD Radio” message board!
 
bigtom101 said:
KB1OKL said:
Digital TV is another scam perpetuated to pull more money from the consumer. The only people that care about digital anything besides a small amount of enthusiasts pro and con are the people who are making the dough from it, most people could not care less about either digital TV and radio.

Wow...you really have me speechless with that one. All those people at Best Buy buying ATSC capable sets must be dupes...who the hell would want a signal with subchannels and HD picture? Same thing with CD's - must have been a scam to get people to ditch all the great vinyl with pop's & scratches and turntable rumble!

I have a HDTV set at home hooked up to FiOS - best picture ever. My computer outputs 720p over to the set to watch Blu Ray rips...must have been duped into that.

HDTV looks better than analog TV (unless your cable company has compressed the crap out of it), and I still say that HD Radio sounds better than analog (unless the source material is questionable). If it sounds like ass, its the (a) the processing, (b) crappy MP2 files being re compressed, or some other issue with the STL or the install. It is a digital world....like it or not.

As far as vinyl vs CD's, CD's have many advantages over LP's however realistic sound is not one of them. I'll put my Thorens TD-150MIII up against any CD player and it will win as far as naturalness goes. Digital sound is inherently grainy and harsh compared to analog which is natural sound. I'm listening to The Steve Miller band's Brave New World album with a pristine LP on my Thorens right now as I write and it sounds unbelievable, very inviting to the ears, can you say that about your CD's? My turntable is on top of my Sony CD player which is almost as dusty as my Sony XDR-F1HD tuner, nope for discerning people analog sound is THE way to go.
And as far as digital vs analog TV, I would say 95% of the people have it because it's there and that's the way the new TV's are and that's the way it is now being broadcast. Or in other words most people capitulated and bought one because they knew they would have to eventually anyway which is one of the reasons I bought mine. It has not lived up to the hype surrounding it several years ago at all. I think I speak for the vast majority of TV viewers when I say I couldn't care less about HD TV, if it's there I watch if not I don't miss it. Any time the government forces people to buy anything whether it is a new TV, a converter box or health insurance it's a scam to help out big business. I have Direct TV and I don't even know if I'm receiving HD broadcasts or not and I couldn't care less and I won't pay one penny more for it, neither does my wife who probably doesn't even know it exists. Digital TV looks unnaturally bright just as HD radio sounds unnaturally bright, especially AM HD. This country has a long history of planned obsolescence to force people to buy new merchandise, Digital TV is one of the biggest and latest money making scams. HD radio was one that failed. I guess the rateros won one and lost one.
 
HD Radio is a joke it muddies the analog signal and the "average joe" already thinks he has an HD radio. The only people that have HD radios are people in the business.
 
radioskeptic said:
there’s a much better solution. It’s called FMeXtra. It would cost your station only around $15,000 for the hardware. And there’s no licensing fee (the only licensing fee is the one the manufacturer pays Digital Radio Express, Inc., and that’s a one-time fee embedded in the purchase price). The encoder fits in a standard 19-inch rack, and consumes only about as much power as your desktop computer.

How does one pick up FMeXtra? On a typical HD receiver? or does it require a dedicated receiver?
 
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