B101's commercial-free weekdays: NOW what?

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

I was dial-flipping this morning and I noticed that B101 is now doing commercial-free weekdays. I wonder where they got that idea?

I will make no bones or excuses for feeling this way or for typing it here: It's embarrassing. The newbie should be the one playing catch-up. Greater Media didn't simply copy every aspect of B101 when they launched Now 97.5. They at least brought some ideas to the table. And almost-always-number-one powerhouse B101's reaction: Just copy every single thing they do. They've obviously tweaked the music and updated the on-air presentation...and now they've dropped commercials...all in an attempt to sound exactly like a competing station that started up only a couple weeks ago!

Apparently, whatever GM does with 97.5 will simply be copied by B101. So what's next? If 97.5 adds an all '80s hour from noon to 1:00 p.m., what are the chances B101 won't do the exact same thing? If in two years, they are both vying for 3.5 shares (everyone acts like the idea is incredibly far-fetched but stranger things have happened), will Jerry still think copying whatever GM does is a good idea?

B101 should get rid of their PD and MD. They don't need them since they're just using the ones over at GM.

So aside from dial position and little things average listeners don't care about, is anything going to differentiate these two stations? I sure hope 97.5 goes all-Christmas before B101 because it'll at least give B101 a half-decent playlist to copy!

 

[HGN2001]

There IS a difference. B101 is playing commercials. They just SAY that they're commercial-free, but in reality they play commercials just as before. It's all in the presentation - you tell the listeners that you're commercial-free, and they'll believe it! They're breaking ever half-hour or so, just as they always did.

NOW 97.5 has actually been commercial-free throughout the entire "workday".

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

OMG! I see what they're doing. I just checked it out at yes.com. They're only occasionally doing commercial-free hours between 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Wow. How deceptive. I think it would be really funny for 97.5 to start airing promos that call B101 on the carpet about it!

 

[HGN2001]

OMG! I see what they're doing. I just checked it out at yes.com. They're only occasionally doing commercial-free hours between 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Wow. How deceptive. I think it would be really funny for 97.5 to start airing promos that call B101 on the carpet about it!

They ARE mentioning it in their liners. They have at least one that says something like "the other stations might do a commercial free hour once in a while..."

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

Wow. Who would have ever thought we'd have an ugly Adult Contemporary war on our hands? LOL. Actually, the whole thing is putting me to sleep. Wake me up when November comes.

 

[spectacle]

Sleepy?

Just wait for Z97 or Q86 or whatever they are called change it's next format when the power PD from corporate doesn't make enough headway with B101 in 4 months. That's called unemployment!

 

[imhomerjay]

I was dial-flipping this morning and I noticed that B101 is now doing commercial-free weekdays. I wonder where they got that idea?

I will make no bones or excuses for feeling this way or for typing it here: It's embarrassing. The newbie should be the one playing catch-up. Greater Media didn't simply copy every aspect of B101 when they launched Now 97.5. They at least brought some ideas to the table. And almost-always-number-one powerhouse B101's reaction: Just copy every single thing they do. They've obviously tweaked the music and updated the on-air presentation...and now they've dropped commercials...all in an attempt to sound exactly like a competing station that started up only a couple weeks ago!

Apparently, whatever GM does with 97.5 will simply be copied by B101. So what's next? If 97.5 adds an all '80s hour from noon to 1:00 p.m., what are the chances B101 won't do the exact same thing? If in two years, they are both vying for 3.5 shares (everyone acts like the idea is incredibly far-fetched but stranger things have happened), will Jerry still think copying whatever GM does is a good idea?

B101 should get rid of their PD and MD. They don't need them since they're just using the ones over at GM.

So aside from dial position and little things average listeners don't care about, is anything going to differentiate these two stations? I sure hope 97.5 goes all-Christmas before B101 because it'll at least give B101 a half-decent playlist to copy!

Eh....you poke the big dog, you risk getting bit. It shouldn't be a surprise; the B hyped '70s when Sunny emphasized them, and matched the "2 minute max" commercial breaks when they hyped that. The listeners aren't going to care who copied who (especially when likely very few yet have even sampled Now); outflanking your competition is a logical business strategy...and that's one of the reasons the B is where it is today. Maybe not all that original, but to be honest, how much originality do you need when you're just trying to be the preferred provider of Kelly Clarkson, Journey and Elton John? I don't mean that to be critical of the format, as I happen to listen to it second-most to Ben FM, just looking at it from a business viewpoint.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

Eh....you poke the big dog, you risk getting bit. It shouldn't be a surprise; the B hyped '70s when Sunny emphasized them, and matched the "2 minute max" commercial breaks when they hyped that. The listeners aren't going to care who copied who (especially when likely very few yet have even sampled Now); outflanking your competition is a logical business strategy...and that's one of the reasons the B is where it is today. Maybe not all that original, but to be honest, how much originality do you need when you're just trying to be the preferred provider of Kelly Clarkson, Journey and Elton John? I don't mean that to be critical of the format, as I happen to listen to it second-most to Ben FM, just looking at it from a business viewpoint.

I hear ya. And yeah, this is just the latest copycat move B101 had made. I've always called them the most reactionary station I've witnessed. And that's not something a prestigious big-market AC should be doing, in my opinion. It's what kiddie pop stations do.

The thing is, for such a big dog, I don't understand why they react before they know whether there's even a threat. They reacted to Mix/Max (which didn't turn out to be a problem for them), The Point (blech), and definitely BEN-FM and WISX. Some were valid, others were obviously not. Hell, they maybe even reacted to Alice (though I wasn't paying attention at the time). And now, they're basically being programmed 100% by a cross-town station that was born mere weeks ago!

Just seems to me if they had any faith in what they were doing, staying the course would be the way to go. Programming in reaction to every flip that occurs on the dial just doesn't sit well with me. And it makes me think they rest on their laurels and coast along as much as possible. And to be honest, I think it's often made B101 sound like crap. I used to listen to them religiously...but then there were times I couldn't listen to them at all! (Results not typical.)

 

[nd2023]

Xerox 101 copies what its competitors do and then claims to be the first one to do it, thereby making the competitor look bad. When Sunny announced the date it would flip to all-Christmas, Xerox 101 flipped 3 weeks before Sunny's planned date, and Sunny flipped 3 hours after B101.

 

[imhomerjay]

In the interest of balance, ow debuted by "copying" some of B101's elements as well: song tags and a tagline based on the phrase "Today's soft rock," which B 101 had been using for some time. Adding "A younger approach to..." the tagline isn't a shining example of original thought.

A smart fighter doesn't wait to see how bad they're bleeding before they punch back. In a war you seldom willingly cede ground to your opponent. That's really what I see the B doing here. They're hitting the idea of being "fresh" (which they had also used before Now was around) and "today's" harder than before, but that seems relatively minor in the big picture. And now they're throwing in some commercial free hours--also not groundbreaking on either station's part. As the start-up, Now can stunt with the all-day commercial-free blocks, but we all know an in-office station can't exist on that strategy long-term. It's not like B 101 canned their DJs to match the true "no talk" approach of Now; that would be going overboard. As to their music, I'm saying as a listener (sometimes as a P-1, sometimes not) pretty much since the start, I don't detect a real shift in direction. Sure, we can study Yes.com and analyze percentages--and it makes for an interesting analysis--but the fact that the change is done in a subtle way so as not to sound noticable is to the credit of the programmers, not their detriment (IMHO).

It seems to me that some credit is due to the B over the years--they've fended off the rivals, in some cases by beating them at their own game, without (apparently) losing many listeners along the way (and I'm talking about long-term patterns here, not the occassional book-to-book bounces that can reflect any number of short-term factors).

If the B did nothing and lost significant ground, we'd probably be getting on their case for not reacting, or reacting too late if they implemented similar moves after a chunk of their base had moved to Now. Kind of a "no win" for them.

I think there could be room for two AC stations, but anyone who wants to take on that second station status can't expect the incumbent to roll over and let the new kid throw a few gimmicks at them without a response. If Greater Media is up to the battle, great--sooner or later they may find the way to hit B101 in a way the B can't easily respond without risking their base. Personally, I wonder if going softer AC with 97.5 might have given GM a 1-2 punch with Ben on the other end, but that's just a theory with no research to back it up.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

They're hitting the idea of being "fresh" (which they had also used before Now was around)

I don't know how I missed this one. That's the greatest example: They got exclusive use of the term "Fresh" in response to something that hadn't even happened yet--and never did!

It's not like B 101 canned their DJs to match the true "no talk" approach of Now

Yet.

but the fact that the change is done in a subtle way so as not to sound noticable

You know how I hate to sound argumentative--LOL--but to my ears, their reactionary playlist adds and deletes have been quite noticeable in the past.

I do give B101 credit for staying on top as long as they have. But that's really it. The on-air product has sounded complacent for years and that's what really burns me up. They only make it sound interesting when someone forces them to!

And even if they didn't react to 97.5, I really don't think GM has any real chance of taking B101 down too many notches. All GM wants is to have enough listeners to make 97.5 more profitable than it was and a better fit for their cluster.

I'm just saying B101 knows how to be a good station but they only turn it on when they feel threatened. I hate that.

Good thread!

 

[imhomerjay]

They're hitting the idea of being "fresh" (which they had also used before Now was around)

I don't know how I missed this one. That's the greatest example: They got exclusive use of the term "Fresh" in response to something that hadn't even happened yet--and never did!

Pre-emptive marketing at its best. I'm sure they didn't think it would truly stop a competitor, but it gave them a weapon just in case. The best defense is a good offense, perhaps?

It's not like B 101 canned their DJs to match the true "no talk" approach of Now

Yet.

LOL, true enough. Honestly, though, I don't see that being a change they make unless the economic situation nationally goes so far south that revenue dries up...and I don't think that's very likely.

You know how I hate to sound argumentative--LOL--but to my ears, their reactionary playlist adds and deletes have been quite noticeable in the past.

I do give B101 credit for staying on top as long as they have. But that's really it. The on-air product has sounded complacent for years and that's what really burns me up. They only make it sound interesting when someone forces them to!

Nothing argumentative about it. In the past, I agree completely, if I may clarify my original statement. The "70s weekends" and such were noticable, to be sure. I was thinking more about the "Now" response, where any tweaking has been subtle enough to be almost subconscious to average listeners.

And I think there's an interesting question underlying all of this...what does a straightforward AC do to be that "interesting?" We can all get into the debate of "burned out" songs, but that's not a B-101 (or Now) specific issue. I found it interesting when I would hear REM, Green Day and others on the B. Some would argue those artists/songs don't fit on an AC, but I suggest they do, because the audience has changed. For not being a "hot AC," they've, in my opinion, done a good job of balancing adding newer fare without losing listeners to competitors in great numbers. And, of course, one person's interesting music mix is another person's bland one....there's no agreement to be had there.

Music aside, over the years they've added (and repeatedly changed) the jingles, shaken up the morning show by letting Chris McCoy go, added the song tage (like them or hate them, they were a change to presentation), added a Saturday night request show and updating the image to "Fresh." They went from a "no on-air contest" approach to minimize talk to all kinds of call-in contests on a regular basis.

I'm going to qualify this question by stating it's not intended to be argumentative: what all should they have been doing? Fire more DJs? (There's something to be said for consistency in this format, especially). Change the name just for the sake of changing it?

Good thread!

Totally!

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

I don't have any problem with their on-air presentation actually. (Well, the song tags could go away.) Their imaging and stuff is perfect. I do question that '80s hour they used to do at 7:00 p.m. It was in reaction to a '70s hour Sunny was doing at the time but once Sunny went away, B kept doing that awful '80s show for quite some time. (It's a matter of personal taste of course, but a lot of people have agreed with me that the 1980s was simply not a good period in music history!)

To me, it's all about the music programming. And I agree, they did an excellent job of becoming hotter without actually becoming a Hot AC. But they only did that in reaction (to BEN-FM, IIRC). Without some competition, they'd be playing that ultra-safe, sleepy, boring garbage they seem to really enjoy relying on.

The thing is, they appear to be great right now. I mean, I look at yes.com and it looks like they're doing just what they need to be doing. But if Now 97.5, BEN-FM, and WISX all burned to the ground tomorrow, B101 would sound completely different by the weekend. that's the part I hate.

At any rate, I really don't listen to them anymore except when I'm flipping around the dial. So I don't know why I let it get to me at all. LOL.

 

[imhomerjay]

Well, as the proud owner of an iPod loaded with about 80% '80s music, the '80s hour was my cup of tea, but of course different strokes for different folks. I wished it hadn't gone away, though I think it outlasted Sunny's demise. The more recent '80s Saturday night show seemed to be a way to play up the '80s a bit without a special format hour each night. Obviously, I'd love to see it come back to weeknights--heck, I'd prefer an all '80s night every night to Delilah.

Whether they became hotter in response to competition, in response to changing demographics or some of both is something we don't know, but I'd bet on a little of each. To some extent, someone has always been trying to hit them on the fringe, whether it was Sunny on the soft side, Mix on the...well, on whatever front they were going for each day when they got up, Ben on the '80s and '90s side...and the Point, Alice, et al. Now is the first to take them dead on, making the battle far more interesting, but I would suggest they haven't been without some competition for many years.

If My, Now and Ben all croaked, never to be replaced, how do you think they'd be different? Honestly, I'm curious. I don't think the music would be that radically different so long as they're staying current with their target audience. The commercial free hours would go away for sure, but I call that little more than a gimmick anyway, and of little consequence to the average listener.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

If My, Now and Ben all croaked, never to be replaced, how do you think they'd be different? Honestly, I'm curious. I don't think the music would be that radically different so long as they're staying current with their target audience.

I wish I had kept track of the changes I've noticed as the winds have shifted in the market. When B101 is feeling secure, they always fall back to 100% safe, schmaltzy playlists that sound like they were conceived by a robot (which was built by a consultant). I've watched it happen so many times but I honestly don't have a mental timeline with examples.

I can do this much. I can suggest artists/songs that B101 would probably drop immediately if WISX, WBEN, and WNUW bit the dust.

Likely out immediately: Avril Lavigne, Club Nouveau, Donna Lewis, The Fray, John Mayer, Kelly Clarkson’s upbeat stuff, Maroon 5, Natasha Bedingfield, One Republic, Pink (Pink for crying out loud!), Plain White T’s, Sugar Ray, and Uncle Kracker. These are not artists/songs B101 wants to be playing. They play them because they have to. And these are the artists/tracks that make the station sound good, IMHO.

Staying on: Nice safe drivel like A-Ha, The Bangles, Paula Cole, Melissa Etheridge, Cyndi Lauper, Hall & Oates, Jimmy Buffett, Jimmy Cliff, John Mellencamp, Journey, Pat Benetar, Rod Stewart, and Tears for Fears.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

Well, as the proud owner of an iPod loaded with about 80% '80s music, the '80s hour was my cup of tea, but of course different strokes for different folks.

Don't get me wrong. There were some great tunes in the '80s. Just not, you know, a whole lot. LOL. And they seemed to come pretty early in the decade.

Kim Carnes; Diana Ross & Lionel Richie; Dolly Parton; Kool and the Gang; Blondie; Diana Ross (on her own); Tommy Tutone; Toto; Earth, Wind, and Fire; Soft Cell; Eurythmics; Men At Work; Michael Jackson; Duran Duran; Pretenders; Billy Joel; Clash; Adam Ant; Tina Turner; Pointer Sisters; Prince; Wham!; Madonna... There are more and, sure, it sounds like a long list. But we're talking about a whole decade here.

It is important to also be reminded of some other names: Frank Stallone, Poison, Richard Marx, Kenny G, Rick Astley, Patrick Swayze, Corey Hart, Debarge... See? That list can go on and on as well!

And I just can't make the horror of the second list outweigh any pleasure derived from the first one! ;D

 

[imhomerjay]

Likely out immediately: Avril Lavigne, Club Nouveau, Donna Lewis, The Fray, John Mayer, Kelly Clarkson’s upbeat stuff, Maroon 5, Natasha Bedingfield, One Republic, Pink (Pink for crying out loud!), Plain White T’s, Sugar Ray, and Uncle Kracker. These are not artists/songs B101 wants to be playing. They play them because they have to. And these are the artists/tracks that make the station sound good, IMHO.

Staying on: Nice safe drivel like A-Ha, The Bangles, Paula Cole, Melissa Etheridge, Cyndi Lauper, Hall & Oates, Jimmy Buffett, Jimmy Cliff, John Mellencamp, Journey, Pat Benetar, Rod Stewart, and Tears for Fears.

Interesting speculation, but I don't see any indication they wouldn't stay on...or that someone "doesn't want to be playing them." Honestly, they fit the format now, so it makes sense for them to be there.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

Interesting speculation

There are only two things I love about these boards:

1. That a bunch of radio geeks have a place to get together and be radio geeks.
2. Interesting speculation.

8)

 

[wprt949]

Xerox 101 copies what its competitors do and then claims to be the first one to do it, thereby making the competitor look bad. When Sunny announced the date it would flip to all-Christmas, Xerox 101 flipped 3 weeks before Sunny's planned date, and Sunny flipped 3 hours after B101.

there wont be a christmas war this year ha