BA Receptor Discontinued

[MasterTheseus]

Re: BA Receptor Discontinued-Hurray!

I appologise for what seems to have taken on a negative tone. Perhaps I am too new to the board to say things in jist. Sometimes I forget that I have not been posting for months on this board as I have others.

Apology cheerfully accepted. I'm glad that you've dropped by this board and I hope you will be a frequent visitor.

I do have a lot of respect for Sangean’s products. I even have an analog version of the BA sitting next to my bed, so I tend to think both companies are good ones. The clock on my Analog BA keeps awful time (is this an industry wide problem?) but otherwise it is a very fine radio. Obviously, the HD version was not so wonderful. That is part of the price you sometimes pay for being first.

The reported "bugs" with the HDT-1 are nothing that would keep you from using it as a radio. At worst they might be mildly irritating to radio geeks, but to most of the buying public, they are more or less non-issues. I say that speaking as a "radio geek."

If there was only a way to keep the HDT-1 in the "always on" mode" I'd love to try them on some FM translator installations. I'm very impressed with its sensitivity and selectivity, and even more so with its ability to reject adjacent channel interference. If HD catches on, that will become an increasingly desirable feature.

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present. My gut feeling is that there is something in the software, similar to your computer, where you can tell it what to do when power is restored.

We have already made so many running changes on both models that the factory is getting mad at me. But we hope that we can make this one of those setup options that would allow you to select to stay on. But as mass market comes along and the broadcasters become more stable and numerous we will likely begin to customise these to fit those needs.

 

[Chuck]

Even in home situations, outboard tuners usually get their power from the Aux AC outlets on the back of hosting amplifier or receiver. These are usually switched outlets. When you turn off the amplifier, the outlets turn off as well. When you switch the amp back on, it powers up, but the HDT-1 does not. I think this is a problem even on the most basic consumer level.

If the tuner is installed in a broadcast or commercial sound environment (like in a restaurant or club) the same problem exists. Popular rack mount tuners that are common in these situations come from Tascam, Rolls, and maybe even Fanfare. As far as I know, all return to the on position when they lose line power. Otherwise, you can bet that the restaurant or club owner will call the installer,and insist on them making a free service call, just to turn on the power switch. That's not going to work.

I hate to sound like a broken record on this issue, but for most applications, it is a fairly big problem. Look at it as you would for most other common appliances. Would you like it if you had to push the power button on your refrigerator every time the power went off?

 

[MasterTheseus]

Even in home situations, outboard tuners usually get their power from the Aux AC outlets on the back of hosting amplifier or receiver. These are usually switched outlets. When you turn off the amplifier, the outlets turn off as well. When you switch the amp back on, it powers up, but the HDT-1 does not. I think this is a problem even on the most basic consumer level.

If the tuner is installed in a broadcast or commercial sound environment (like in a restaurant or club) the same problem exists. Popular rack mount tuners that are common in these situations come from Tascam, Rolls, and maybe even Fanfare. As far as I know, all return to the on position when they lose line power. Otherwise, you can bet that the restaurant or club owner will call the installer,and insist on them making a free service call, just to turn on the power switch. That's not going to work.

I hate to sound like a broken record on this issue, but for most applications, it is a fairly big problem. Look at it as you would for most other common appliances. Would you like it if you had to push the power button on your refrigerator every time the power went off?

I completely agree with you it is an issue and we will be addressing it with future models, I just can't get them to make this change on the existing model.

 

[Chuck]

I completely agree with you it is an issue and we will be addressing it with future models, I just can't get them to make this change on the existing model.

I spent a few minutes on the old work bench this afternoon peering into my HDT-1. I think I've come up with a simple work-around. It adds a small relay, a resistor and a capacitor. That's it. You'll need four short wires to connect the components to easily accessible point on the chassis. You don't have to take anything apart other than removing the cover.

I'm certain that there are more elaborate ways to do this, but I was trying to do this in a minimalist approach with common parts that I had on my work bench. With this minor modification, so far, every time I've unplugged the tuner from the mains supply it has turned itself back on when I plugged it back in.

I'd be happy to share my findings with anyone, including Sangean engineers. Right now it is in the "breadboard" stage, connected up with some clip leads. Assuming this tests out OK in the next few days, I will clean it up and make it look nice. I don't mind posting a picture and quick drawing on a web page if anyone is interested. It will probably be this weekend before I can do it.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

 

[Chuck]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Let's be fair. It is a problem with this particular radio. Specifically, it is part of the way the power supply is designed. To my amazement, the Sangean's power supply is a very straight forward old fashioned transformer design with a bridge rectifier and filter capacitors. It's not even a digital switching supply.

In this case, the inability to stay on has nothing at all to do with HD. But don't worry; there are enough other problems with HD to make up for that....

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Let's be fair. It is a problem with this particular radio. Specifically, it is part of the way the power supply is designed. To my amazement, the Sangean's power supply is a very straight forward old fashioned transformer design with a bridge rectifier and filter capacitors. It's not even a digital switching supply.

In this case, the inability to stay on has nothing at all to do with HD. But don't worry; there are enough other problems with HD to make up for that....

Chuck, I am being very fair when I say that the same problem has often been reported as common on all models of HD radio. Frequent, necessary "resetting" is very common, and not just with Sangean HD radios.

 

[MasterTheseus]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Defect is not quite the appropriate word to use in this specific case. It is more what we consider a deficiency. To be a defect it would have to be designed to work as such but it doesn't.

For example, the clock time on the early HDT-1. This was a defect caused by LG miss-manufcaturing the HD Module. That is a defect. The backlight not turning off is a deficiency, not a defect as we designed the light to stay on.

 

[PocketRadio]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Let's be fair. It is a problem with this particular radio. Specifically, it is part of the way the power supply is designed. To my amazement, the Sangean's power supply is a very straight forward old fashioned transformer design with a bridge rectifier and filter capacitors. It's not even a digital switching supply.

In this case, the inability to stay on has nothing at all to do with HD. But don't worry; there are enough other problems with HD to make up for that....

All of the HD radios seem to be garbage - the licensing and HD chipset fees are so expensive that these radios are made on the cheap.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Defect is not quite the appropriate word to use in this specific case. It is more what we consider a deficiency. To be a defect it would have to be designed to work as such but it doesn't.

For example, the clock time on the early HDT-1. This was a defect caused by LG miss-manufcaturing the HD Module. That is a defect. The backlight not turning off is a deficiency, not a defect as we designed the light to stay on.

So you are saying a radio that can't stay on or recover from a temporary power dip without manual resetting, is not a defect but another undocumented HD radio designed in "feature"?
I did not realize not staying on was just another desirable, deliberately designed in, HD radio "benefit".

 

[Chuck]

So you are saying a radio that can't stay on or recover from a temporary power dip without manual resetting, is not a defect but another undocumented HD radio designed in "feature"?
I did not realize not staying on was just another desirable, deliberately designed in, HD radio "benefit".

For better or worse, it appears to have been intentionally designed that way. The on-off switch works exactly as designed. Why they designed it that way is another question altogether. The circuitry would have been simpler (less components) if it did not have that "feature."

 

[MasterTheseus]

Master Thesus said:

Well, I am sorry to say that the HDT-1 as well as the HDT-1X don't have the ability to stay on at present.

I would consider not having the ability to stay on an extremely serious defect in brand new HD radios. I've had no such problems with any new or used analog radios, unless a component becomes defective.

It just proves, once again, that HD radio IS defective.

Defect is not quite the appropriate word to use in this specific case. It is more what we consider a deficiency. To be a defect it would have to be designed to work as such but it doesn't.

For example, the clock time on the early HDT-1. This was a defect caused by LG miss-manufcaturing the HD Module. That is a defect. The backlight not turning off is a deficiency, not a defect as we designed the light to stay on.

So you are saying a radio that can't stay on or recover from a temporary power dip without manual resetting, is not a defect but another undocumented HD radio designed in "feature"?
I did not realize not staying on was just another desirable, deliberately designed in, HD radio "benefit".

No, the unit's power status has nothing to do with HD Radio. All of our radios have a default power status of Standby or off HD Radio or not.

Let's put blame where it belongs. If your Sangean radio doesn't turn back on it is because WE made it that way and that is not determined by IBiquity, God, or anytone other than us.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Users have frequently reported that various models of HD radio have to be "rebooted", reset or restored after a power fluctuation, interruption, or the DSP becomes confused. Just as a computer needs to be rebooted, or reset.
The problem seems to be universal and widespread to HD radio not exclusively confined to Sangean.

 

[Chuck]

Users have frequently reported that various models of HD radio have to be "rebooted", reset or restored after a power fluctuation, interruption, or the DSP becomes confused. Just as a computer needs to be rebooted, or reset.
The problem seems to be universal and widespread to HD radio not exclusively confined to Sangean.

I think we are talking about separate problems. I have not experienced it with this radio, but it is possible that any radio with a DSP device in it might "lock up" and need to be rebooted to work properly. It is after-all a computer with an antenna attached to it. We've all experienced computer lock-ups, and most of us know from experience, if your computer starts acting squirrelly, the first thing to do is to restart it. That usually fixes the problem. It is probably is true of some HD radios as well. My DISH Network HDTV tuner does that about once a week. It drives me nuts, but that is another story. Most people seem to accept it as "that's the way it is."

Having recently inspected my HDT-1 on the bench, I'm fairly confident that the unit’s refusal to power up after an outage is a result of the remote control circuitry. It is very similar to what is used on most TV's. As far as I know, every TV in my house returns to "standby" when there is a power loss. You have to push the power button on the remote (or TV) to get them to turn on. The HDT-1 comes with a very small IR remote control and exhibits similar characteristics as the TV. Why it has a remote control is anyone's guess. I'm sure that some marketing survey told the folks at Sangean that it is something everyone expects in today's products. Even my laptop computer came with a wireless remote control for the CD/DVD player, although I haven’t really figured out why. To me, it's just something more to misplace. Obviously someone thinks we all want wireless remotes. I may be in the minority, but I just want a tuner that stays on and returns to where it was when power returns. I’m perfectly happy with using the “Tuning” control on the front panel.

 

[rwagoner]

Having recently inspected my HDT-1 on the bench, I'm fairly confident that the unit’s refusal to power up after an outage is a result of the remote control circuitry. It is very similar to what is used on most TV's. As far as I know, every TV in my house returns to "standby" when there is a power loss. You have to push the power button on the remote (or TV) to get them to turn on. The HDT-1 comes with a very small IR remote control and exhibits similar characteristics as the TV. Why it has a remote control is anyone's guess. I'm sure that some marketing survey told the folks at Sangean that it is something everyone expects in today's products. Even my laptop computer came with a wireless remote control for the CD/DVD player, although I haven’t really figured out why. To me, it's just something more to misplace. Obviously someone thinks we all want wireless remotes. I may be in the minority, but I just want a tuner that stays on and returns to where it was when power returns. I’m perfectly happy with using the “Tuning” control on the front panel.

Everything else in my home entertainment system can operate on remote control. I want my tuner to be able to do so also. I don't misplace "it," because I use a Harmony universal remote that controls everything. Not having remote on the tuner is the one thing I did not like about my Carver TX-11b. Well, that and thew fact that having a grounded antenna lead connected to FM caused a ground-loop hum when receiving AM stereo.

Richard

 

[scanman1]

Quote from Chuck: "As far as I know, every TV in my house returns to "standby" when there is a power loss. You have to push the power button on the remote (or TV) to get them to turn on."

I have two GE televisions that, if turned on at the time that the power fails, will actually turn back on themselves when the power is restored.

I also agree that all tuners in operation before a power loss should return to the "on" position after the power is restored. 8)

 

[MasterTheseus]

Quote from Chuck: "As far as I know, every TV in my house returns to "standby" when there is a power loss. You have to push the power button on the remote (or TV) to get them to turn on."

I have two GE televisions that, if turned on at the time that the power fails, will actually turn back on themselves when the power is restored.

I also agree that all tuners in operation before a power loss should return to the "on" position after the power is restored. 8)

We are exploring this to be an optional feature in future models, i.e. you can decide for yourself if you want power to restore or to stay in standby. We are actually looking at a VERY large list of reccomendations for improvement and we are considering most, but some of them are completely unreasonable.

One of the changes is that when HD multicast channel drops you can choose if you wish it to revert back to the primary channel analog and when HD is locked back in to return to the primary HD channel or the multicast HD channel previously tuned.

Boradcasters especially are asking for those two features and we are going to give it to them if we can.

Are there any other features that you would like to see?

 

[Chuck]

Are there any other features that you would like to see?

I don't know if the economics would justify it, but there might be a market for a "Broadcast Version." It would have features like "always on and locked in whatever mode you left it in." For translator applications (and this thing could be a knock-out for that application) a set of relay contacts that would close in the event of loss of carrier from the receiving station would make it a tuner to seriously consider. It's an FCC requirement in that application. I’d love to use it on at least one of our translators, if I could get it to do that.

Something that would be REALLY handy in translator duty would be a relay contact that closed when no RDS signal is present. Translators are supposed to go off the air if they lose the signal from whatever they are repeating. The conventional way to do this is to have a "loss of carrier" alarm built into the receiver which closes a relay contact. The problem with that approach is, these days it isn't very often that you lose actually lose a carrier. You just lose the one you want to rebroadcast. Frequently, the signal from an out of the area station comes blasting in due to atmospheric conditions and captures the translator's receiver. This causes the translator to rebroadcast the wrong station. With the advent of iPods and satellite radios with modulators, these devices can sometimes capture a translators input as well. In fact, some people think it is great sport to do so.

If the originating station sends out an RDS signal, that alone will frequently differentiate it from the crowd, or at least from the satellite modulators. In other words, if the receiver doesn't see the RDS signal, even though the radio is picking up something, it will shut off the transmitter, until the RDS signal is restored. It would be simple, easy, and a lot better than anything on the market right now. Taking it a step further, it might be able to use it in such a way that if the tuner did not see the correct RDS signal, it would keep he transmitter muted. Each RDS signal is unique, so it shouldn't be too big a leap to make them ID specific.

A couple of other things that would be nice are XLR balanced outputs, a headphone jack and a composite (pre-stereo or HD decoder output).

It's just a thought. The cheapest receiver I know of that is designed for translator duty is from Dayton Industries. It's a good little tuner, but it doesn't have all these features and does not seem to exhibit the amazing ability to deal with first adjacent and nearby strong RF fields like the HDT-1 does. There are several translator tuners from Italian suppliers like RVR that sell for about $1000, and the really good tuners come from Fanfare or Inovonics. Depending on features, they run from $1000 to 2000 or so.

The market may be too small to consider, but there are a lot of translators out there who may be interested in upgrading their equipment. Further, the FCC has a back-log of translator applications that are currently frozen. I think it is about 10,000. It is uncertain what the FCC is going to do with these frozen applications, but if 25% ever come to fruition, it could be a fair size market for a specialty supplier.

There is also a need for good rack mount tuners in lots of installed sound system installations in restaurants, night clubs, skating rinks, office paging systems and the like. That is a fairly large market. It is price sensitive, but the HDT-1, if it stayed powered on would be in the ball park for that market. You'd probably need to show up at the NSCA (National Sound Contractors Association), AES or NAMM shows to test the water.

If you ever need a guinea pig, let me know.

 

[hipporadio]

I'm jealous - wish that I had been the one to have the privilege posting this milestone!

ME TOO! – given my fond appreciation for this “stellar” product ...and the opportunity it provided me for my very-first editorial review gig at Amazon.com. As of this post – 68 of 80 found that review “helpful” [the remaining 12 probably worked in the “spin-control” division at i-Niquity]... BTW, Amazon can longer fulfill orders for this “science fair project” direct [shows how few they actually kept in their warehouse].

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...72282&s=electronics&customer-reviews.start=31

This isn't news...

And, you represent Sangean?

No, but I’m representative of a “satisfied Sangean customer” as I own SIX of their products [if you include those with a C. Crane label].

The WR-2 table radio is absolutely beautiful [in sound, reception, and aesthetics] – WELL BEYOND the “garden-variety” compact stationary radio!

The DT200VX pocket-size radio is BEST-of-class by a mile... MUCH BETTER than the typical “walk-man”-style product from Wally World!

I’ve never been dissatisfied with a purchase that carried the Sangean name [or marketed with their collaboration].

I do not own either of their “HD Radios”, but recently discovered a disheartening reception experience first-hand from one who received the HDR-1 as a retirement gift. This radio FAILED to snare HD primary and secondary streams on the stations in Indianapolis he had an interest in [one a mere FIVE MILES from his home]. He toted his HDR-1 to his second home on the coast of South Carolina – hoping to receive the HD-2 services from two 100kw Charleston FM stations [up a full 1000-feet] – NO SUCH LUCK there either... And he lives only forty-miles across water from those stations!

 

[Chuck]

Hey, welcome back Uncle Hippo. We've missed you around here.....