Back in... Five?

[davideduardo]

You don't diverge from the log unless the Traffic Director comes in and changes it (adding or dropping a spot for instance).

You are about 20 years behind the times. If there even is a local traffic director, they don't go into the studio to change a log. They edit on their own computer and then upload the new log to the digital storage and automation system.

1. When the automation breaks down. Happens more than you might think. Depending on the severity of the crash you are manually re-loading the automation and in some instances, firing each spot individually. It's times like these when you wish you had a triple stack cart deck.

So rare. If the station has a UPS, there should only be the occasional computer issues requiring a reboot and then today's updated systems will take off from whatever point they should be in real time. Traffic will schedule make-goods for any missed spots.

2. While the log may specify a specific placement, sometimes the automation schedules items in a different order. If you're sharp, you catch it and adjust accordingly.

Stopsets are for coffee and bathroom breaks. If the automation accepts the log load at midnight, the spots will never run out of sequence unless production mislabeled one. I have never, ever, heard of automation changing the order of events. The only case where a stopset might get messed up is where station personnel have programed the times for going to the stopset wrong, and you get one stopset being halted to run another stopset.

The paper log holds the board operator accountable for what goes over the air, regardless of how efficient the systems in place are. When you sign each page of the log, you are verifying that everything ran as scheduled. If the wrong spot plays and you check it off as correct, that's on you. Dated copy, a :30 logged but a :60 in the system... these are all things that are the responsibility of the board op to catch. If you check it off or sign off on it, it had better have run correctly

Reconciliation is done now electronically, looking at the "as run" and comparing it with the "as scheduled" data. Many of us reconcile music that way so any songs on slow rotations that did not run the day before can "jump back in the pool" for play the next scheduled day. We use a reconciliation report that flags scheduled but not run songs.

Now I realize that perhaps none of these things have ever happened to you, at stations you've worked at, consulted or heard about. That's OK. These things do happen.

I can see a paper log at some stations, such as smaller markets, where a lot of stuff is done manually and live... such as calling the hospital for birth reports and that kind of thing. But in most cases, it's just superfluous. And technical failures are so infrequent that the losses of spots there is minimal compared to operator error and "wrong cart" mistakes in the "good old days".

Just like someone, somewhere, at some time, paid to have their radio commercial played as the very first commercial in the break, stopset, pod, or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure it has happened. It's just that I've never sold one or had anyone sell one or had a seller ask about one in 58 years in radio, 53 of which have been in management, generally at multi-station groups and clusters.

 

[robnokshus06]

You are about 20 years behind the times. Blah, blah blah and blah...groups and clusters.

I hate to say this David, because I used to have considerable respect for you, but in this instance, your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.

I wasn't going to continue this thread but, jeez! You really are full of yourself! I know you have posted over 33,000 times. Still doesn't make you an expert on everything (except posting on radio boards. I'll give you that). I am relating real world experiences. Incidents that I have personally experienced in the past 12 months. Don't tell me the traffic director that came into the studio to write in spots on the log doesn't exist. She does. You are ignorant on this subject, meaning you DON'T KNOW what you are talking about. You don't.

Just because you haven't climbed Mt. Everest doesn't mean others haven't. They have. I could go on, but the the point would obviously escape you

This exchange has reminded me of something Robert W. Morgan once said (and I know he said it, because I was in the room when he did): "A consultant is a guy who knows 99 different ways to make love, but doesn't know any women." Happy consulting.

At least you somewhat conceded the original point. But really, try to dial the pomposity back a bit. It might help boost your credibility.

 

[johndavis]

There have been multiple studies done on this subject, all concluding that those who are going to leave do so in the first moments of the first commercial, with over 90% remaining for the whole commercial break.

A bad song in a music format will cause greater attrition.

And back to the original post: isn't this just another form of "appointment setting" where you figure that some people are going to punch out so you're reminding them to punch back? See also "we'll have your chance to win at 10:42."

 

[davideduardo]

I hate to say this David, because I used to have considerable respect for you, but in this instance, your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance.

I wasn't going to continue this thread but, jeez! You really are full of yourself! I know you have posted over 33,000 times. Still doesn't make you an expert on everything (except posting on radio boards. I'll give you that). I am relating real world experiences. Incidents that I have personally experienced in the past 12 months. Don't tell me the traffic director that came into the studio to write in spots on the log doesn't exist. She does. You are ignorant on this subject, meaning you DON'T KNOW what you are talking about. You don't.

Just because you haven't climbed Mt. Everest doesn't mean others haven't. They have. I could go on, but the the point would obviously escape you

This exchange has reminded me of something Robert W. Morgan once said (and I know he said it, because I was in the room when he did): "A consultant is a guy who knows 99 different ways to make love, but doesn't know any women." Happy consulting.

At least you somewhat conceded the original point. But really, try to dial the pomposity back a bit. It might help boost your credibility.

You are, as I was trying to say, speaking of the exceptions to "the rule".

On a lark, as I waited for Win10 to finally download and update one of the computers here (see, I can be old fashioned too called some friends at different sized groups, including one who owns two AMs outside the top 100 markets.

I ended up, by phone and email, spending about all of the last two hours calling, texting and emailing. Of 11 people I talked to, all GMs, PDs or OMs, all said that their traffic director never went in the studio.

I said that any changes were done by the traffic person or the GM (who knows the system) on the computer in the traffic office or cubby. Then they are reloaded on the automation. In three of those the cases, any deletions (client called that the "car was sold" or "we ran out") were done manually and then adjusted during reconciliation later, and the others deleted on the traffic computer and reissued a log to automation.

In the other 5 cases, traffic was centralized, so there was a system to call and kill spots, but it generally only applied in emergencies such as pulling an airline account if one of their planes has an incident (or, I guess today, if one of their passengers has one!). In most cases, production has permissions to access and change actual spots, even in the several cases where production is centralized.

Only one case of "paper log" was answered by "when did they stop requiring a paper log" and a promise that they would be gone "really soon... I spend about $600 a year on paper just for those darned logs!"

All in all, that was a kind of fun opportunity to catch up with a bunch of friends from stations and conventions past.

All I said was that if your experience is different, either you or the station you worked for is very traditional and behind the times. I'm not doubting you or I would have said "impossible! Nobody does that!" But, as they say, the exception makes the rule. This is no different than saying that teens and young adults don't listen to standards; in fact, a very, very few do but they are exceptions and the statement that none of them listen is statistically sound based on the utter infrequency of listening by those younger people.

I don't really think I have a credibility issue since today's traffic software and its interface with automation systems is generally run in some form or manner of what I have, in generalized form, described.

There is likely here an opportunity for those at other groups and independent stations to jump in and describe how they do last minute traffic changes, how they do an immediate kill order, whether they have a paper log as backup (or for some other reason) and to comment on the internal procedures we've debated.

As to the comment on consultants, I'd just mention a couple of names just in the programming area: Lee Abrams, Jerry Clifton, Marlin Taylor, Jim Schulke, Mike Joseph, Kent Burkhart, Andy Bloom, Bill Tanner, Jaye Albright, Jeff Pollack, Bill Drake, the folks at Jacobs Media, Mike McVay, Rusty Walker, Walt Sabo, Valerie Geller, Holland Cooke, Randy Lane, Guy Zapoleon. In the areas like sales, there have been superstar trainers just as there have been in management and engineering (geniuses like Earle, Butterbaugh, duTriel, Rackley and Ogonowski) and in every other field where the real leaders are asked, and often, to share their skills at many stations.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

There is likely here an opportunity for those at other groups and independent stations to jump in and describe how they do last minute traffic changes, how they do an immediate kill order, whether they have a paper log as backup (or for some other reason) and to comment on the internal procedures we've debated.

In the last few years, I've done some work for a single-station operator. There is only one person there who ever touches the log, and it is the owner. Normally if there is a late change, he just adjusts that day's log in the automation, and deals with it when he reconciles. No paper logs, although given that the station is automated 80% of the time it's not clear who would even use a paper log if he printed it...

 

[johndavis]

Only one case of "paper log" was answered by "when did they stop requiring a paper log" and a promise that they would be gone "really soon... I spend about $600 a year on paper just for those darned logs!"

I guess I work for an old school operation.

While there is a centralized traffic system for the entire corporation and the traffic manager will make edits in the computer log after it prints, those edits are hand-written in the log because the rule is if there is a conflict between paper and screen, the paper log wins.

And I can think of a good reason to still print them, even though I know they do the reconciliation by computer and not by hand: the one time a year on average when something blows up (whether that's mechanical or human error) and you find yourself having to manually load the spots in the automation PC, you can refer to the paper and just play them and check them off. Rule number 1: we don't miss spots. There is no rule number 2. We're usually sold out, and the one time a year when you need it, missing just a handful of spots in an hour costs more than a year's worth of paper, so it's better to follow practices that lead to empty discrep sheets.

I do know of other groups running the same software on both the traffic/billing and automation side that runs paperless. But sometimes you stick with what you've always done because it makes you money. YMMV.

 

[MarcB]

And back to the original post: isn't this just another form of "appointment setting" where you figure that some people are going to punch out so you're reminding them to punch back? See also "we'll have your chance to win at 10:42."

That reminds me of something else. The Oldies station where I live. On occasion the DJ will tease something and then say I will have more in 7 1/2 minutes. Now since the DJs on said station are voice-tracked (including Lisa Sinclair whom I heard worked at KFWB 980 at one time) who really knows if the story will be told 7 1/2 minutes later. If a song that's being played is one I don't like I'm not sticking around for 7 1/2 mins to hear the story.

And with commercial breaks if a listener stays through the entire break can he/she recall everything that was advertised? I was just listening to the Spanish Hits station where I live and including the Legal ID the break was either 6 1/2 or 7 mins. I don't speak or understand the language. I know a few words and phrases.

I remember a commercial for a concert they're sponsoring. One of the performers is Victor Manuel.
I remember a commercial for Bob's of Milford - a car dealership. The Commercial was done like one of the DJs was interviewing one of ladies who works at the dealership.
I remember a commercial in English for a realtor who works for Keller Williams Real Estate. It was VO'd by a jock on their Modern Rock sister station.
I remember a commercial in English for Kia of East Hartford. There was a guy impersonating trump saying he was going to build the wall. And a guy with a bad accent saying he wasn't afraid of him. Then the regular announcer saying You can lease a KIA for $111/Month or 2 for $222.
I remember a commercial for Kennedy's Plumbing and Heating.
And I remember a commercial for Middeltown Nissan.

Then the Legal ID.
WMRQ HD2/HD4 Waterbury
WBMW HD4 Pawcatcuk
W253BQ Meriden
W258AL Clinton
W246CC Bolton
W283BS Bridgeport
W283BW New London
WSPR 1490 AM en Springfield.
97.1, 98.5, 99.5, and 104.5 BOMBA-FM! (in Spanish) It's explosive!

I don't know why they mention WSPR 1490 as they run separate BOMBA programming. And they're licensed to West Springfield.

 

[davideduardo]

I guess I work for an old school operation.

While there is a centralized traffic system for the entire corporation and the traffic manager will make edits in the computer log after it prints, those edits are hand-written in the log because the rule is if there is a conflict between paper and screen, the paper log wins.

And I can think of a good reason to still print them, even though I know they do the reconciliation by computer and not by hand: the one time a year on average when something blows up (whether that's mechanical or human error) and you find yourself having to manually load the spots in the automation PC, you can refer to the paper and just play them and check them off. Rule number 1: we don't miss spots. There is no rule number 2. We're usually sold out, and the one time a year when you need it, missing just a handful of spots in an hour costs more than a year's worth of paper, so it's better to follow practices that lead to empty discrep sheets.

I do know of other groups running the same software on both the traffic/billing and automation side that runs paperless. But sometimes you stick with what you've always done because it makes you money. YMMV.

That's a good explanation. If there is a paper log to be followed, that would mean that there is someone in the studio at all times.

My experience is that when there is someone... or even a whole crew in the studio for a morning or PM show... the room empties out during the stopsets. Coffee, the bathroom, the cellphone call, a snack in the microwave... all make actually watching the log on the screen highly unlikely.

How does your station make sure that the log is monitored and not just check "for compliance".

My feeling is that the amount of money lost due to human error in systems that allow manual deviation from the computer is greater than what might be lost in the time it takes to reboot the system. In most cases, the same system plays the music, promos, liners and commercials so unless it's a talk station, it is going to be hard to fill in content... even if there is still a rustic old CD player in the studio.

 

[TheBigA]

If a song that's being played is one I don't like I'm not sticking around for 7 1/2 mins to hear the story.

If you like counting commercials, turn on the TV. I was watching James Corden last night, and there had to be 10 minutes of spots and promos in a row. And this was in late night!

 

[landtuna]

If you like counting commercials, turn on the TV. I was watching James Corden last night, and there had to be 10 minutes of spots and promos in a row. And this was in late night!

That's why virtually everything I watch is downloaded, streamed or recorded. Ain't technology wunnerful?

 

[TheBigA]

That's why virtually everything I watch is downloaded, streamed or recorded. Ain't technology wunnerful?

We'll see how much you love it when it's all behind a paywall.

 

[mohawk82]

We'll see how much you love it when it's all behind a paywall.

I haven't watched live TV for 12 years.

 

[landtuna]

We'll see how much you love it when it's all behind a paywall.

I really doubt what's OTA now will go behind a paywall in my lifetime. The advertisers have no other economical way of reaching so many eyes and ears. In any event the paywall isn't the foolproof obstacle it appears either. I don't seem to have any trouble watching whatever I want. And before you launch into a rant I am perfectly legal.

But let's take your statement at face value and assume there are no clear OTA signals and subscriptions are required for everything. The only thing I would pay to watch in that event would be NCAA college football and NHL hockey. There is no TV entertainment worth a nickel to me and I already have a complete music library so radio is immaterial. And before you rant again.....they abandoned me due to my age so I don't feel a bit responsible for their going out of business.

 

[davideduardo]

I really doubt what's OTA now will go behind a paywall in my lifetime. The advertisers have no other economical way of reaching so many eyes and ears. In any event the paywall isn't the foolproof obstacle it appears either. I don't seem to have any trouble watching whatever I want. And before you launch into a rant I am perfectly legal.

But let's take your statement at face value and assume there are no clear OTA signals and subscriptions are required for everything. The only thing I would pay to watch in that event would be NCAA college football and NHL hockey. There is no TV entertainment worth a nickel to me and I already have a complete music library so radio is immaterial. And before you rant again.....they abandoned me due to my age so I don't feel a bit responsible for their going out of business.

It's a very small percentage of viewers who are using OTA signals. If not cable, it is some kind of streaming.

In either case, you are paying. In cable, the carriage fees from the stations, cable channels and traditional webs are passed on the subscribers. In streamed services, the need to pay is obvious.

Television has not, actually, abandoned 55 and over. CBS has had about half its viewership over 55 for some time, and they are doing an ongoing effort to get ad buyers and advertisers to at least recognize 50 to 64. There is enough money in the older demos to sustain a lot of TV programming because the medium is so visual.

 

[landtuna]

It's a very small percentage of viewers who are using OTA signals. If not cable, it is some kind of streaming.

In either case, you are paying. In cable, the carriage fees from the stations, cable channels and traditional webs are passed on the subscribers. In streamed services, the need to pay is obvious.

Television has not, actually, abandoned 55 and over. CBS has had about half its viewership over 55 for some time, and they are doing an ongoing effort to get ad buyers and advertisers to at least recognize 50 to 64. There is enough money in the older demos to sustain a lot of TV programming because the medium is so visual.

I watch either OTA or online. No subscriptions.

As for CBS, I am still over the top of their 64 demo. Just can't win.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I watch either OTA or online. No subscriptions.

As for CBS, I am still over the top of their 64 demo. Just can't win.

Try MeTV. They've got Matlock, M*A*S*H, Mr. Ed, Mary Tyler Moore, Mayberry RFD, and the Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. And that's just the shows that begin with the letter M!

 

[landtuna]

Try MeTV. They've got Matlock, M*A*S*H, Mr. Ed, Mary Tyler Moore, Mayberry RFD, and the Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. And that's just the shows that begin with the letter M!

Not fond of any of those. About the only diginet program I watch is "The Untouchables" but even that gets pretty formulatic after a few episodes. Used to be one of my favs back in the 50's. They have lots of old character actors though and some famous actors in early roles so for that reason it is fun to watch.

 

[Hot Hits]

I haven't watched live TV for 12 years.

I love live TV. A few years back I had IVI TV for $5 a month. You got all the local Broadcast Stations in New York, Chicago, Seattle, and Los Angeles. Great for an area like mine that does not get OTA signals. Then the Injunction came~

 

[wadio]

There is enough money in the older demos to sustain a lot of TV programming because the medium is so visual.

Huh? Is there data to support that? People's eyes generally don't get better with age and radio gets a hefty share of the older demo.

I don't doubt that there's money to be made selling to older demos but I don't see the "visual" connection. Repetition is likely more important, and saturation is cheaper on radio.

 

[Hot Hits]

Huh? Is there data to support that? People's eyes generally don't get better with age and radio gets a hefty share of the older demo.

I don't doubt that there's money to be made selling to older demos but I don't see the "visual" connection. Repetition is likely more important, and saturation is cheaper on radio.

More old people watch and listen to TV than the Radio, everyone would know that?