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BACK TO FM???

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Can't see how anyone who listens to Satellite could ever go back to or even listen to FM again.I rented a car last year and was stuck with Q104 instead of Classic Rewind,I think they played the same Billy Joel song that I heard them play the last time I had them on a few months prior.But thats Classic Rock radio..no album cuts..no new music..no risks.Hopefully radio will go the way of the 8 track....to obscurity
 
Hopefully radio will go the way of the 8 track....to obscurity

If you really feel this way, what are you doing wasting your time on this board? Do you have anything positive to offer? I know the industry is upside down because of corporate ownership, so how about some ideas to help get around the roadblocks that presents us?
 
Q104.3 is probably one of the better classic rock stations around.

While they repeat often, they do of some good specialty shows including "Out of the Box".
 
Q 104 was foolish not to move to either an AOR or Active Rock direction with K-Rock going the way of the dodo. Think of where this station would be in the ratings right now if they did. Yes, they would probably lose the audience they would attract if an Active Rocker or Alternative signed on, but do you really think that's going to happen in NYC? They're not doing bad now, but they missed out on an opportunity to be a major player in this market.
 
amfmsw said:
Hopefully radio will go the way of the 8 track....to obscurity

If you really feel this way, what are you doing wasting your time on this board? Do you have anything positive to offer? I know the industry is upside down because of corporate ownership, so how about some ideas to help get around the roadblocks that presents us?

I'll bet, if you were around 30 or 40 years ago and somebody posted....
Can't see how anyone who listens to FM could ever go back to or even listen to AM again.I rented a car last year and was stuck with WABC instead of WPLJ,I think they played the same Beatles song that I heard them play the last time I had them on a few months prior.But thats Top 40 radio..no album cuts..no new music..no risks.Hopefully AM radio will go the way of the 16 rpm record....to obscurity

You would have told them to post something positive about "radio" and radio was synonomous AM at one point. The big corporate owners and their lawyers spent big bucks trying to kill FM - they did drive the inventor of FM to suicide.
Satellite radio is radio.
Too bad the big radio operators didn't get in on it when they had the chance.

If radio wants my advice, they can pay for it.
 
I'll bet, if you were around 30 or 40 years ago and somebody posted....
Can't see how anyone who listens to FM could ever go back to or even listen to AM again.I rented a car last year and was stuck with WABC instead of WPLJ,I think they played the same Beatles song that I heard them play the last time I had them on a few months prior.But thats Top 40 radio..no album cuts..no new music..no risks.Hopefully AM radio will go the way of the 16 rpm record....to obscurity

You would have told them to post something positive about "radio" and radio was synonomous AM at one point. The big corporate owners and their lawyers spent big bucks trying to kill FM - they did drive the inventor of FM to suicide.
Satellite radio is radio.
Too bad the big radio operators didn't get in on it when they had the chance.

If radio wants my advice, they can pay for it.

Scary... As I began reading the second post on this thread, I began to mentally craft a response... No need now, as Mr. Flintstone has pretty much said everything I was thinking, in the thoughts even in the same order, with the same analogies, right up to and including the reference to Major Armstrong with one exception-- I don't subscribe to the believe that all audio content is to be considered "radio". But otherwise, frightening indeed...

SoulCrusher, I understand your passion for Active Rock and Alternative... Musically, I'm pretty much right there with you... You do realize though, I hope, that in order to attract advertisers these days, terrestrial radio needs to attract "lowest common denominator" listenership, right? I'm afraid your musical tastes (and mine as well) have become just too sophisticated for today's radio. That being said, why did Q104 "miss a big opportunity" when another station "failed with the format" (your own words, I believe, a few weeks back re: Country in Monmouth-Ocean, and please correct me if I've misquoted you)?
 
George Brusstar said:
Scary... As I began reading the second post on this thread, I began to mentally craft a response... No need now, as Mr. Flintstone has pretty much said everything I was thinking, in the thoughts even in the same order, with the same analogies, right up to and including the reference to Major Armstrong with one exception-- I don't subscribe to the believe that all audio content is to be considered "radio". But otherwise, frightening indeed...

Thanks, George. Great minds...
FTR: I think of what you do on Friday evenings as "radio;" not wireless, but radio. If cable TV is TV (also wired), then Internet audio is radio. Sorry, George but you're still in radio. The medium may be the message but the medium is not the technology which enables it.
 
George Brusstar said:
SoulCrusher, I understand your passion for Active Rock and Alternative... Musically, I'm pretty much right there with you... You do realize though, I hope, that in order to attract advertisers these days, terrestrial radio needs to attract "lowest common denominator" listenership, right? I'm afraid your musical tastes (and mine as well) have become just too sophisticated for today's radio. That being said, why did Q104 "miss a big opportunity" when another station "failed with the format" (your own words, I believe, a few weeks back re: Country in Monmouth-Ocean, and please correct me if I've misquoted you)?

I suppose you're right, George. Our tastes are too refined and sophisticated for terrestrial radio, especially in a market like NYC.

Maybe Q104 would be better off staying put. The new rock fans would probably complain that the station is "too classic", while the classic rock heads won't like "this weird new rock they're playing". They're by no means struggling, so I suppose that taking a gamble with a successful formula is a risk not worth taking.

I have alluded to the failure of WXRK in the past, mostly because of what I feel was an identity crisis. The format was tinkered with too much over the years. By my estimation, they were a full-fledged Alternative station for maybe 2 or 3 years, tops. The ratings were solid, but CBS/Infinity was not content. Around late 1997 - early 1998, K-Rock started working in "Retro Rock" by the likes of AC/DC, Pink Floyd, Rush and Aerosmith. This was an incredibly foolish move in my opinion, especially because CBS/Infinity also ran the long time AOR WNEW at the time (we all know what happened to them), and there was also Classic Rocker WAXQ as well. I know a lot of people that turned away from K-Rock at this time, including my brother. Personally, I was just bored with the overall predictability and blandness of the station, so I only listened sporadically. Part of the problem was that CBS/Infinity hired Steve Kingston to be the PD at WXRK, a man with significant experience with the CHR format, but absolutely none with Active Rock or Alternative.

A couple of years passed, and WXRK threw its weight behind the nu-metal movement that was gaining momentum. The genre was very popular, but it was also polarizing - I'm sure they lost as many listeners as they gained during this period. At this time, you could definitely call K-Rock the "frat boy" station - the programming and advertising appealed strongly to drunk, randy, obnoxious testosterone-addled jocks. Even as nu-metal was on its last legs, WXRK still played it constantly. My take: While WXRK may have failed to sell as much advertising to major beer companies and condom manufacturers, there would have been more of an audience if this station was built around Alternative tradition (a lot of which started right in NYC!), early punk rock, and modern acts that appealed to that audience - heck, I know that lots of people in The Village definitely would have listened. Either that, or a full-fledged Active Rocker as long as they distanced it from WNEW's programming enough - by Active Rocker, that means presenting a diverse mix of Rock from the last few decades along with a good selection of Currents, including nu-metal but certainly not making it the focal point of the station. Problem is, not only did K-Rock choose to make frat boys their core audience, but they were playing music that would alienate them - Rush, Pink Floyd, Beck, Evanescence, etc. Of course, there's no way that fans of those acts will stay tuned to a station that was basically pushing Limp Bizkit to be the biggest band in rock music.

During its last few years, WXRK was musically all over the place. Despite being very tightly programmed with tons of repetition, they were all over the place - it was very common to hear Led Zeppelin into Afroman into Black Sabbath into Beck into Kelly Osbourne (!) over the course of 30 minutes or so. At some point, they dumped the Classic Rock for a while, but it was still very jarring to hear acts like Franz Ferdinand going right into Slipknot. The sequencing on this station was terrible - while it is possible to program a station with both of these bands, you can't have one going right into the next!

The main point I'm trying to make is this: WXRK failed because their only criteria for playing a band was that said band was really popular. In the end, WXRK couldn't decide whether it wanted to be an Alternative (which it was in '95-'97, and it sounded pretty good) or an Active Rocker, and that is what led to its demise. They were still clinging to Limp Bizkit and the like until their final days, despite that band's rapid decline in popularity. Then they became K-Rock "Great Rock Period", which was unnecessary given the presence of the very similar sounding Q-104, and was merely CBS/Infinity stalling until the right time came to launch Free-FM.

I still believe that a focused Active Rock or Alternative station could work if they programmed it the right way and didn't try too hard to appeal to one relatively small demo (the mistake that WXRK made). The station needs to balance familiar material with the new songs, and throw in some unexpected tracks for good measure - and of course, an excellent morning show is a MUST with either of these genres. It's something for the lower rating/billing stations in the market to consider.
 
Sophisticated musical tastes? ::)
Oh, come on.
Classical music appeals to sophisticated tastes.
So does jazz.
This is rock - popular music - slacker music you're talking about.
Maybe it requires a more sophisticated taste than rap of hip hop, but that's not saying much.
You guys like it, fine.
But don't get all pretentious and musically superior.

And some of you still need to let go of the myth that ratings matter.
Money matter$.
$ale$ revenue$ matter.
 
fred flintstone said:
Sophisticated musical tastes? ::)
Oh, come on.
Classical music appeals to sophisticated tastes.
So does jazz.
This is rock - popular music - slacker music you're talking about.
Maybe it requires a more sophisticated taste than rap of hip hop, but that's not saying much.
You guys like it, fine.
But don't get all pretentious and musically superior.

And some of you still need to let go of the myth that ratings matter.
Money matter$.
$ale$ revenue$ matter.

Of course ratings and advertising matter - the point I was trying to make was that K-Rock wasn't going to succeed by targeting a relatively small audience, that being fraternity brothers.

As far as being sophisticated is concerned, I would think that we're more so than the people that love the Pussycat Dolls, Paris Hilton, Jessica Simpson, dumb bling-obsessed hip hop acts like Dem Franchize Boyz and Young Dro, or whatever is playing on the "soft rock" station. Given the current state of the recording industry and how these acts are placed on a pedestal, I think that would put us above the majority of people out there. I don't mean to come off as pretentious or arrogant, but that's just the truth.
 
Don't take my comment personally. It was meant generally.

I keep seeing posts on different boards on this site that boil down to:
My music is good.
Their music is bad.
Radio station _____ plays their music.
Therefore, _____ is bad.

Good gets expressed in different words ("sophisticated") is one.
On the Philly board, you have Rock/Alternative is good; Black music (rap, hip hop) is bad.
On the Oldies and Standards boards you have Oldies/Standards are good, Classic Rock (or anything more recent is bad).
Your parents thought your music was noise.
You thought their music was dull.
You think your kids' music is noise.

It's all about preference.
The discussion here is like two people going into an ice cream store and one wants chocolate and one wants strawberry. And they have an arguement over whether chocolate is better than strawberry.
Problem with radio, is radio doesn't have enough freezer space for 31 flavors.
Limited bandwidth; some formats don't get heard in any given market.

And even if you can make the case that some music is objectively and critically better than some other music, radio is in the business of getting an audience - not elevating public taste.
It's irrelevant to radio's programming decisions whether music is good or bad.
No music SHOULD be carried - except music that makes money for the station by creating an audience it can sell to advertisers.
If that means Urban or Hispanic formats, so be it.
It's just business.

Satellite radio, on the other hand, has more bandwidth and can provide more flavors.
And the listener pays the piper (and calls the tune).
Satellite radio will devote bandwidth to music that generates subscriptions.
 
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