BAD IDEA?: Now 97.5 is STILL playing Christmas music!

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

It's 10:51 a.m. on December 29 and Now 97.5 is currently playing "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year" by Amy Grant (one of my absolute favorites). I love it but is it a good idea? Are they giving some listeners no choice but to tune to B101--especially in-office listeners who might be embarrassed that Christmas songs are emanating from their desks on December 29?

 

[Jefferson]

Some people say the Christmas spirit is still with us until a little bit after New Years. I'd say if they're still playing Holiday Music by this time next week, I'd really start worrying...

-Jefferson

 

[BRH]

Judging from their explosive numbers in the new PPM ratings for December (2.7 to a 6.1), I'd say they are trying to milk it for all it's worth and try and stretch those numbers into the next month. Should be interesting to see if they can hold on to some of those new listeners. If so, they could be a real pain for B101.1.

 

[nd2023]

They should have stayed ALL Christmas till the 29th, and flipped during morning drive. The people listening to Christmas music (that make up the 6.1) still want to hear it through the weekend. The AC listeners (that make up the 2.7) most likely stopped listening before the kids started begging for candy.

 

[imhomerjay]

That assumes the two audiences are separate, which isn't entirely the case.

 

[nd2023]

That assumes the two audiences are separate, which isn't entirely the case.

At least 3.4% of the audience is exclusively because of the Christmas music. 3.4 > 2.7

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

At least 3.4% of the audience is exclusively because of the Christmas music. 3.4 > 2.7

Oh my.

 

[imhomerjay]

At least 3.4% of the audience is exclusively because of the Christmas music. 3.4 > 2.7

Al Gore-esque fuzzy math aside, it doesn't prove what percentage of folks who may have come over because of Christmas (which in itself ignores other factors like "forced" exposure) still want it non-stop in the days after the holiday.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

The audiences, the 6.1, and politics (Al Gore? Really? LOL.) aside, I was simply asking if anyone agrees that December 29 (being a Monday) was too long after Christmas for 97.5 to keep playing any Christmas songs--let alone four per hour. Stopping at midnight Monday morning would have made a lot of sense, IMO. Hell, if they wanted to keep up the wall-to-wall Christmas until Monday morning at midnight, I wouldn't have blamed them (and I totally would have listened).

But on Monday morning, people sat at their desks and when they turned on the radio (which they may have left on 97.5 when they left the office five days before) they may have accidentally found a new at-work radio station. (This would be the point where 97.5 would hook them with that transparent-to-us "younger approach" thing.) But when "Rockin Around the Christmas Tree" started up, it would surely force plenty to scramble back to their safe place: B101. That's just what 97.5 didn't need because B101's strength is that once people turn it on, they leave it on. (97.5 could attain this sort of success too...but not if they play occasional Christmas songs when Christmas has passed!)

Just seemed risky to not launch 100% into at-work listening first thing Monday morning.

 

[nd2023]

The "12 Days Of Christmas" are over, yet some of my neighbors still have Christmas lights on. I've gotten over my Christmas music withdrawal, I can wait till next October for Christmas music (or until when the temperature goes above 101 degrees in New York City)

Now 97.5 will definitely flip next year, maybe sooner. B101 will flip soon because they love to copy the competition. WOGL may stay away from it next year. Clear Channel might flip a Philly station to Christmas next year.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

First I'll address Clear Channel's options for all-Christmas music. There aren't any. WISX, WUSL, and WIOQ all saw upticks while the other guys were doing all-Christmas. (Not to mention, WUSL and WIOQ would only ever be flipped to all-Christmas if their current formats were being scrubbed.) WDAS-FM and WRFF saw some dips but I'm sure no one's worried. (And again, WRFF would never be flipped to all-Christmas and any all-Christmas format done on WDAS-FM--while extremely unlikely--would be niche programming.) So Clear Channel's pretty much out of this game. And anyway, it would be nothing like Sunny 104.5: They'd be programming it like their other jukebox Christmas stations so I say "Good riddance!"

Barring some hideous January-September ratings that prove all-Christmas didn't help the station at all, I would tend to agree that WNUW (for as long as they are doing the AC format as Now 97.5) will remain Philadelphia's new home for Christmas music. And I agree that they'll be the first to flip in 2009 though I'm sure it'll be more like November 6 or 13.

B101's been pretty stubborn about being forced to flip so I won't be surprised if they keep on keepin' on. In fact, I'll probably just yawn. But I will tell you this: I think between now and November, B101's gonna put some work into their all-Christmas format. I suspect (hope) they'll be bringing their yuletide "A-game" from now on. They have to know that they can do better and they're not gonna want to let WNUW get a 6-share in any month of 2009!

Regarding WOGL: An interesting point was brought up on another board. WOGL's all-Christmas format led to a ratings drop...but might their December numbers have been even lower without the all-Christmas format? If WOGL's December figures were higher than what they were forecasting with the regular format, then they probably will join in for 2009.

And to address the Christmas decorations: A lot of times, I see homes with Christmas lights turned on until February and beyond! Sometimes people just don't want to go outside and take 'em down. Personally, I like it. I think it's neat to drive by and realize those people have the same disease I have! (Our tree is still up and we still turn the lights on...and all our other decorations are still in place. But that's just because we're too lazy to pack everything back up!)

 

[imhomerjay]

I want to expand on the WOGL thought for a moment from the other board--the idea behind saying flipping possibly (and it takes research to find out any of this) limited the drop was that 97.5 was apparently...if the boards are accurate...playing more 'older' holiday titles and could have posed a bigger threat had 98 not gone "classic Christmas." To my ears, the exposure I did have to 97.5 and 101.1 didn't convince me one was markedly different from the other (but everyone has different ears and exposure levels...and it isn't any of us that counts, anyway).

Always interesting would be to know what listeners truly do go where because of Christmas. We can play around with the numbers and make assumptions, but those could be faulty. You have Ben going up slightly, for example. The result of B-101 (and perhaps even Now) listeners defecting from all Christmas starting on Labor Day? Perhaps entirely, perhaps in part. Let's assume that is part of the gain. The B and Now then need to make up those listeners and others to explain their own gains. Did the talk audience feel the need for some holiday cheer, putting 1210 in the tank while everyone migrated over? Did the B and Now skim a little from everyone? Or do that many people flock back to radio just for Christmas songs?

Sometimes the numbers raise more fascinating questions than they answer on the surface.

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

That is a lot of questions we'll never know the answers to! Haha. I mean, seriously. No one could ever know where all those listeners are coming from and going to. And I think that's why all people--even the experts--can do is speculate. That makes us as good as the experts!

I've always just sorta assumed that all-Christmas formats bring non-listeners back to radio for a while. I don't think all-Christmas had very too much to do with WPHT's issue though I'm sure some of their listeners spent at least some time with the Christmas stations. I just don't think it has much effect on non-music stations.

"[T]he idea behind saying flipping possibly...limited the drop was that 97.5 was apparently...playing more 'older' holiday titles and could have posed a bigger threat had 98 not gone 'classic Christmas.'"

It took me a while to figure that one out. LOL. I don't think the conversation "over there" was specific to 97.5's all-Christmas format being more threatening than anyone else's though. I may have just missed that part but what I was getting was this: 98.1's ratings dip might still be considered a "win" if they were forecasting a deeper drop by staying with the regular format while both WNUW and B101 did something that appealed to WOGL's listeners. So they joined in and took a hit--but not as big a hit as they would have taken had they just sat back and let their listeners defect to not one, but two all-Christmas stations. (You know, regardless of which scenario is more believeable, they're both very difficult to put into words! LOL.)

As far as the differences between 97.5 and 101.1, it is true that they shared an awful lot of titles. Of course, the rotations were vastly different and I personally preferred the way 97.5 was spinning them. Also, I liked almost all the songs 97.5 was playing (with the exception of the Jewel song they added toward the end and the Clay Aiken song they played the whole time--and I did get sick of the Drifters), while B101 (as usual) played a lot of songs that just grate on my nerves. B101's cloying "Ask the Experts" for the umpteenth-year, talky line-reading, and stale jingle package didn't help much either.

I did give B101 a chance to see if they were gonna do anything different this time around. But it was total boilerplate: It could have been tapes from last year. But I didn't ignore them the entire season. Sometimes everyone else was in commercial and I tuned over to see what B101 had on. And that's how I determined the real problem: I simply couldn't leave them on! I couldn't go ten minutes with B101, especially knowing there were probably at least two stations playing Christmas songs I'd rather be hearing.

At the end of the day, here's what the difference was for me: I was simply able to listen to WNUW for longer stretches of time. I don't know if it works this way for everyone but that's how I know what my favorite station is. If they're doing so much of what I like and so little of what I don't, that I'm able to leave it on for huge swaths of my day, they win! And when I put on WNUW, I could leave it on for so long that I didn't mind when the Clay Aiken song came up because I knew that in four minutes I'd be right back into a long set of Christmas songs I wanted to hear. WOGL exceeded my expectations and I loved how the jocks were incorporating themsleves into it as if nothing had really changed. B101 on the other hand was just full of annoyances. I could leave them on for maybe two songs before the old-as-Santa-himself jingles jarred me...or an American Idol Christmas song came on...or the jock (I won't be specific because I actually like the guy) said something mind-numbingly stupid.

DISCLAIMER: Some whacko (widely believed to be employed by one "Mr. Lee") came on this very board during the season and accused me of having an agenda against B101. He's probably gonna start his crap again so let me make one thing perfectly clear: If I had an agenda, it would be trying to convince B101 to sound better. Why would I not want to have three or four stations sounding fantastic and competing for my ears? That's why I'm hoping B101 really "brings it" in 2009. I'd love to be on these boards eleven months from now talking about how fantastic everyone's doing the format and how I can't decide which station to leave on!

 

[imhomerjay]

Indeed, if 98 ultimately scored a higher rating with Christmas than without--none of us knows--then it is a win, whether that win is up over the previous book or not. I was just throwing out one possibility among many as to why their best-case scenario could have been to minimize defections as opposed to actually going up.

And some of the flip sides of why folks liked Now better is why some like the B better. For me, if I'm going to hear Rockin Around the Christmas Tree approximately 2,941 times, then as much as I want Brenda Lee to be part of the mix, I want some other versions, too. Likewise, I like hearing some of the same artists doing the Christmas songs as are in the 'regular' format a bit more. (Though I'd rather never, ever hear the Hippo song so long as I live...there's a special place in hell for whoever unleashed that thing on humanity ;D.)

Given "doing the format well" is highly subjective, it's unlikely we'd all agree on the concept. From a business standpoint, knowing that you can't please everyone--and trying too hard will likely please almost no one--the question becomes which approach you take and what's best for your business.

And one thought...if the B 'steps up its game' so to speak next year and plays the format in a way that's more to the liking of the Now fans, will that mean they automatically get blamed for being copycats? (As in, they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.) ;D

 

[Soon Yi CIV.V]

B101 doesn't have to copy WNUW to do it well. WOGL sounded nothing like WNUW but they sounded great.

But even if they did copy WNUW, the only people calling them copycats would people like us on these boards. And we don't matter! 8)