Bad News For The Oasis

[Jazz_Kat]

Courtesy of: http://www.radio-info.com/news/fcc-bluntly-orders-tim-martz-detroit-fm-translator-off-the-air

FCC bluntly orders Tim Martz' Detroit FM translator off the air


This may be the first time an operator accused of causing interference has offered smart phones with iHeartRadio apps to consumers who complain.

Almost five months ago, Clear Channel complained that Martz' Radio Power Inc.-operated "Smooth Jazz Oasis 104.7", broadcasting on translator W284BQ, was interfering with its own rock WIOT, Toledo. WIOT is also on 104.7. At the time, Martz called it "David and Goliath", saying that WIOT "is a Toledo, Ohio station...does not promote itself or market itself in Detroit...[and] does not show up in the Detroit Ratings." Now we learn that since late May, Martz has tried some novel strategies, including giving smartphones to WIOT listeners whose reception has been affected by the new Detroit translator signal. But Clear Channel objects to that solution, and also to Radio Power making public the names of those WIOT listeners who complained. The FCC says that practice might make people less likely to complain in the future. It also declines to get into the business of monitoring smart phone apps, and says the Radio Power approach would lead it into "a quagmire of novel issues." It affirms that broadcasting is "a free, over-the-air system that is and must remain a vital source of news, information and programming for all Americans." Read this unusual FCC decision about an unusual situation, here.

 

[danikayser84]

Well, Detroit is well within WIOT's 36 dBu contour, so I honestly felt they didn't have a chance anyway... are there any possible frequencies that could be used however? 99.9 would cause a similar problem due to K100 Country for example...

 

[w9wi]

Well, Detroit is well within WIOT's 36 dBu contour, so I honestly felt they didn't have a chance anyway... are there any possible frequencies that could be used however? 99.9 would cause a similar problem due to K100 Country for example...

It's certainly tough.

92.3/93.1/94.7/95.5/96.3/97.1/97.9/98.7/99.5/100.3/101.1/101.9/102.7/103.5/104.3/105.1/105.9/106.7/107.5 are all off-limits due to Detroit (or nearby suburb) stations.

First-adjacent protection requirements mean any channel separated by 0.2 from these (92.1, 92.5, 92.9, etc.) is also off-limits.

So, you look at second-adjacents. 92.7/93.5/94.3/95.1/etc...

A VERY unscientific assessment suggests that at this translator's currently authorized power/antenna height and non-directional operation, what would be acceptable...

99.9/101.5/104.7: all off-limits due to Toledo Class B's.

92.7/93.5/95.1/97.5/98.3/99.1/100.7/102.3/103.1/103.9/105.5/107.1/107.9: all off-limits as the translator's interfering contour would intersect one or more U.S. stations' protected contours.

94.3 & 106.3: off-limits because there are already other translators authorized on these channels.

95.9: off-limits as there are three pending applications for translators on this frequency.

96.7 is probably their best option. The translator's interfering contour would intersect the protected contour of an existing station on this frequency, but the station that would be interfered with is in Canada. (CHYR-FM Leamington) If the interference can be restricted to the U.S. side of the border, this frequency would be acceptable.

I note W284BQ holds a permit to move to a different Canadian frequency, 93.9. Again, if they can confine the interference to the U.S. side, this will work as far as the FCC/I-C are concerned. I know that 93.9 in Canada has a pretty monster signal though, I'm sure W284BQ would rather be anywhere else if they could.

(which means there's almost certainly some reason which I'm not seeing why they can't use 96.7.)

They can't use the "Canadian stations' U.S. coverage not protected" thing on any other frequency, as every other Canadian frequency is also home to at least one U.S. station that would preclude use for a translator.

There may well be something they can do through some combination of power reduction and directional antennas. It's a REALLY powerful translator. They probably need that much "oomph" to cover Detroit, but a power reduction might open something up. I have my suspicions they aren't going to like fighting CIDR's 100,000 watts on 93.9.

 

[FightingIrish]

Here's a list of possible suggestions (though this list is geared more toward people with ultra-low power transmitters, such as ones that allow iPods to play on car radios):

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant?select=city&city=Detroit&state=MI

Best Channels
90.3 FM GREAT (but not an option for a commercial station)

Next Best Channels
93.5 FM OK

Third Best Channels
95.9 FM OK
96.7 FM OK
97.5 FM OK
99.1 FM OK
100.7 FM OK

And how in the heck do they think they can put a translator on 93.9 with CIDR's 100kw signal covering their whole area? Martz seems like one of those translator cockroaches, kinda like Educational Media Foundation, American Family Association (who have even boasted that one of their goals was to piss off NPR) and those other religious broadcasters that pop those things up everywhere. It's pretty pitiful that the FCC usually turns a blind eye to the mischief of these folks even after that much-ballyhooed 'community radio initiative'.

 

[nmoore6676]

Isn't this a tempest in a teapot issue as the translator in question W284BQ has a CP for 93.9. So apparently the owner is aware and is taking legitimate steps to address the interference, steps other than giving away free I-pods, to correct the complaints. So ordering him off the air on 104.7 is just going to hasten his frequency move or am I missing something? ???

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

The CP doesn't matter, nm. Mr. Martz had to get off 104.7, period, no matter what time he'll take to build out the CP on 93.9. If the FCC rules you're interfering with a full-power station, they don't let you keep doing so because you might end up on another frequency soon.

Prediction: Martz never actually operates on 93.9. It's an interim step to somewhere else. He'll throw up a temporary facility on 93.9, run it a day or so, then file a silent STA and an app to move somewhere else.

Clear Channel did the same thing with 99.1, a local translator here. They ran it briefly on 99.7, blown off the dial almost everywhere by their own first-adjacent country powerhouse, WGAR/99.5. They only did that to take it silent and file for a CP for 99.1.

There's no way we'll see "93.9 The Oasis". It'll get blown off the dial by CIDR "93.9 The River" in Windsor everywhere in the Detroit area aside from a block or two from the translator. Martz will power it up briefly, get a silent STA and look for a new home.

 

[nd2023]

93.9 is 10.8 away from 104.7. A translator can only move up to 0.6 mHz on either side, or the IF (10.6 or 10.8). They can operate on 93.9 if they don't interfere with CIDR in Canada. Then they can move to 93.5.

 

[nmoore6676]

The CP doesn't matter, nm. Mr. Martz had to get off 104.7, period, no matter what time he'll take to build out the CP on 93.9. If the FCC rules you're interfering with a full-power station, they don't let you keep doing so because you might end up on another frequency soon.

Prediction: Martz never actually operates on 93.9. It's an interim step to somewhere else. He'll throw up a temporary facility on 93.9, run it a day or so, then file a silent STA and an app to move somewhere else.

Clear Channel did the same thing with 99.1, a local translator here. They ran it briefly on 99.7, blown off the dial almost everywhere by their own first-adjacent country powerhouse, WGAR/99.5. They only did that to take it silent and file for a CP for 99.1.

There's no way we'll see "93.9 The Oasis". It'll get blown off the dial by CIDR "93.9 The River" in Windsor everywhere in the Detroit area aside from a block or two from the translator. Martz will power it up briefly, get a silent STA and look for a new home.

The CP is on the record:

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=143173

So whether it gets built or not was not my concern or to the point. The fact that it exists must mean that the owner knew there is a problem and all of his ant versus the elephant protestation is just hot air.

But if he is in fact using the new frequency as a ploy to move to yet another then it points out a serious flaw in the process of licensing LPFM in general. And it also says that the FCC isn't really interested in damaging interference if they are licensing translators in areas where such interference is a given as you have pointed out. Maybe the whole LPFM thing needs to be scuttled altogether.

 

[spunker88]

This same guy owns a few stations in upstate NY which are marketed as rimshot stations into the Montreal market. Ive noticed that one of this stations WYUL, a CHR station, doesn't even run stereo. At one point he had a 50kw daytime construction permit on 1500 for the 1490 1kw oldies station he owns up here. That would have been interesting to see but it never happened and the permit expired.

I'd like to see him try a translator on 93.9 in Detroit. In an urban setting where multipath due to buildings, etc is high, your going to get interference from CIDR a few blocks from the translator probably.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

So whether it gets built or not was not my concern or to the point. The fact that it exists must mean that the owner knew there is a problem and all of his ant versus the elephant protestation is just hot air.

Oh, fully agreed. It's Tim Martz' Way of Doing Business. Up in upstate NY, er, near Montreal, he waged quite a David vs. Goliath battle with the popular Engiish-language top 40 powerhouse in Montreal, the "Nix the Mix" campaign. (IIRC, that station's owner ended up buying 25 percent of Martz's border stations.)

At his still operating "Bone" translator in Detroit, the rock station aims at Canadian rockers not just for their Cancon playlists.

It's What He Does. And with the Oasis, he can rally an unserved radio population - those who lost smooth jazz - and pit himself as David against Clear Channel's Goliath.

But if he is in fact using the new frequency as a ploy to move to yet another then it points out a serious flaw in the process of licensing LPFM in general. And it also says that the FCC isn't really interested in damaging interference if they are licensing translators in areas where such interference is a given as you have pointed out. Maybe the whole LPFM thing needs to be scuttled altogether.

The FCC is supposedly working on that, and the process of moving translators (these are not LPFMs, they are translators) hop after hop after hop across states has been tempered somewhat.

But Martz has to know he can never operate on 93.9, a loophole only available to him because CIDR isn't protected on American soil. In practice, 100 kW CIDR wipes out his signal except down the street from the translator, if that. Martz is not trying to get a 3 block wide listening area, I presume, so he will have to move it somewhere else.

My point in the original message was that the FCC won't give him a pass on 104.7's interference just because he'll be somewhere else, frequency wise. He interferes with WIOT, he has to get off immediately, which he did.

 

[Jazz_Kat]

I wish they would just bring V 98.7 back and forget the whole Smooth Jazz Network deal. One can dream. Isn't like this station is a big loss, all it is, is a sat feed of BA Smooth Jazz Network. Check out the thread titled the wav here for real great music.

 

[FightingIrish]

But Martz has to know he can never operate on 93.9, a loophole only available to him because CIDR isn't protected on American soil. In practice, 100 kW CIDR wipes out his signal except down the street from the translator, if that. Martz is not trying to get a 3 block wide listening area, I presume, so he will have to move it somewhere else.

Not necessarily true. The U.S., Canada and Mexico do cooperate on radio frequency issues, and do try to accommodate each other. Same with the Carribean islands. Not so in Cuba, as we all know with the jamming issues and Radio Marti tomfoolery.

There are still AM stations here that protect abandoned AM clear channels in Canada that may be resurrected someday.

 

[nmoore6676]

The FCC is supposedly working on that, and the process of moving translators (these are not LPFMs, they are translators) hop after hop after hop across states has been tempered somewhat.

But Martz has to know he can never operate on 93.9, a loophole only available to him because CIDR isn't protected on American soil. In practice, 100 kW CIDR wipes out his signal except down the street from the translator, if that. Martz is not trying to get a 3 block wide listening area, I presume, so he will have to move it somewhere else.

My point in the original message was that the FCC won't give him a pass on 104.7's interference just because he'll be somewhere else, frequency wise. He interferes with WIOT, he has to get off immediately, which he did.

I lump translators with LPFM only because they are in the same boat when it comes to operating in areas and on frequencies where there is potential interference to existing full power stations. In the good old days FM stations were granted licenses with power levels and antenna heights and co channel and adjacent channel geographic spacing so as to give the listeners maximum service and no territorial fights between stations.

Apparently Mr. Martz is seeking to fill in some holes in the reception of his full power FM in the city. Interference and reception issues due to multipath reflection are not something new to me, I lived in LA for almost thirty years. So his placing of repeaters, even if they serve only a small area is justifiable. However the FCC granting a frequency where interference to a licensed, full power facility, even in another city brings a question to my mind on how the process is being conducted to put these low powered facilitates on the air.

LPFM comes to the discussion because there is a move to allocate more of these community stations licenses to counter the fact that FCC and Congressional policy has placed the ownership of our media outlets into the hands of a few big operators. So to appease the people they are going to create local broadcast stations, only flea powered ones. It could come to a day when the repeaters are pushed aside to put more local origination broadcasters on the dial.

So I have a question regarding to overall policy here. Maybe local community broadcasters should be put on AM. A good Class C AM could cover more people than a 100 watt FM on a 90 foot tower. And it would leave the FM band a lot less cluttered.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Apparently Mr. Martz is seeking to fill in some holes in the reception of his full power FM in the city.

Here's the problem: Martz has NO full power FMs in Detroit. The FM in question is not his.

His Detroit operation is feeding the HD2/HD3 signals of another full-power station in the market, WGPR/107.5, which is owned by the Masons. The Masons are leasing out WGPR's HD sidechannels to Martz, who is retransmitting those signals on his own translator.

In theory, "fill-in" coverage of WGPR would fill supposed signal weaknesses within its own contour. In practice, it's creating a new analog programming service.

And all of this, so far, is fine with the FCC. There are no restrictions on which FM service a translator can rebroadcast, analog or HD, as long as the originating station is broadcasting it (which WGPR is doing on HD2/HD3 via leasing it to Martz for "The Oasis" and "The Bone").

The bottom line here isn't that Martz is "filling in reception holes", though as noted, his methods are currently OK with the FCC (and repeated in dozens of markets now by a number of operators).

The bottom line is that Martz's 104.7 translator in Detroit was found to be unacceptably interfering with the full power station on the same frequency in Toledo, with that interference occurring in Detroit's southern suburbs (protected contour for WIOT).

The bottom line is that translators have to immediately resolve that interference, and the FCC wasn't buying Martz providing free smartphones to pick up WIOT's feed to iHeartRadio. And if the translator doesn't resolve the interference, it has to go off the air, having nothing to do with a pending CP that isn't yet built out.

 

[Media_Maven]

I don't see how Martz could put Smooth Jazz (or anything else) on 93.9, aiming it only at the U.S. side of the border. 93.9 CIDR is a full-service FM station serving Windsor & Detroit. For those of you reading this outside of the market, you may not be aware (it seems) that Windsor is located directly across the Detroit River, less than a mile away from downtown Detroit. All Detroit stations serve Windsor and vice versa. It makes no sense whatsoever to put a translator on 93.9, and I don't see how that could be allowed. Besides, some Windsor listeners would also want to hear the Smooth Jazz format, so Martz should want to find a frequency that Windsor could hear also.

If Smooth Jazz is a viable radio format for Metro-Detroit (and Windsor), one of the poorly-performing Detroit/Windsor FM's should flip to Smooth Jazz and program/market it to the local market. It's called COMPETITION, or at least, it should be.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Media_Maven, see this from one of my earlier messages:

Prediction: Martz never actually operates on 93.9. It's an interim step to somewhere else. He'll throw up a temporary facility on 93.9, run it a day or so, then file a silent STA and an app to move somewhere else.

As I noted there, it was done here in Northeast Ohio, where Clear Channel tested and then immediately took silent a translator on 99.7 - first adjacent to its own full-power local powerhouse, country WGAR/99.5. No one ever heard it on 99.7...even if it operated one night or whatever, it'd be obliterated by 99.5 in nearly all of the region.

99.7 wasn't the destination. They immediately filed for a new, moved facility on 99.1, located on one of the main local broadcast towers south of Cleveland (that of co-owned WMJI/105.7).

Martz is very, very likely to try the same thing. He'll light up the translator on 93.9 - which he can only do because CIDR is not protected on that side of the Detroit River - then immediately take it silent, then file an app to move it somewhere else. I think I heard someone mention 93.5 as a possibility? I don't know if that'd work or not.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Oh, and no Martz facility will likely bring smooth jazz to Windsor, period.

His stations in large markets like Detroit are pretty much all low-power translators.

A slight exception is Pittsburgh, where he uses a modest powered daytimer, AM 660, to feed his 100.1 translator. He has full-power stations in far upstate New York acting as Montreal rimshots, but the cost of full-power FMs in mostly rural areas like Massena and Malone is nominal compared to in-market signals in Detroit.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Oh, for that matter, the owner of the station leasing him the HD2/HD3s feeding the translators in Detroit, the Masons, just leased out the main analog/HD1 signal to Radio One.

It's quite likely that while he can afford to lease out the HD2/HD3 channels, Martz can't even come close to affording an LMA for the main signal.

 

[w9wi]

Martz is very, very likely to try the same thing. He'll light up the translator on 93.9 - which he can only do because CIDR is not protected on that side of the Detroit River - then immediately take it silent, then file an app to move it somewhere else. I think I heard someone mention 93.5 as a possibility? I don't know if that'd work or not.

Indeed, just that cleared the FCC this week.

They filed a license-to-cover on 93.9, which implies it operated, albeit probably only for an hour or two. Yes, CIDR destroyed it, but since the sole purpose for operating 93.9 was to have a stepping stone, they really didn't care.

The station then immediately applied to move to 93.5. There is a power reduction to 99 watts involved. (I suspect that may be temporary)

The FCC hasn't had time to act on the 93.5 application yet, but I rather doubt it would have been filed if they weren't pretty sure the Commission would grant it.

 

[fybush]

The station then immediately applied to move to 93.5. There is a power reduction to 99 watts involved. (I suspect that may be temporary)

Probably not temporary, at least unless there's a rules change. By running at less than 100 watts, the 93.5 version of the translator avoids the restrictions on IF spacing against WOMC on 104.3.