Bandwidth of Modern Radios?

[EbolaMonkey]

but since most modern radios don't do better than 5K anyway, it's really a moot point.

EasyPeazy wrote this in another thread. Easy may be right, I don't know. Does anyone know if this is true?

I've heard that this truism got its start from a ClearChannel survey. Since it was ClearChannel, my immediate question is, how thorough was this survey? And even if "modern" radios don't do better than 5 kHz, what percentage of listeners are using these "modern" radios? I don't have to replace my radios very often. I've got radios from the 60's, 70's, and 80's that work great (I sound like a Mix station, don't I?). So even if 100 percent of "modern" radios are limited to 5 kHz (which I doubt), do they account for a meaningful percentage of the total number of radios being used in the U.S. today?

I would just like to know whether it's true that most radios don't "hear" more than 5 kHz of bandwidth.

 

[Tom Wells]

Well, the first awful sounding AM for the masses was the Delco AM/FM mush-master engineered in the early 90's.

It was the opening salvo, the pre-greasing for the present premise upon which IBOC is founded.

It was held up by ibquity as one of the most prevalent and common types.

It sounded as bad as HD AM stations do now, 15 years ago.

Most analog-tuned radios for the masses have audio up to 15 khz at the detector, other items limit reproduction variously.

What are the ties betwen GM and CC if any?

 

[EasyPeazy]

but since most modern radios don't do better than 5K anyway, it's really a moot point.

EasyPeazy wrote this in another thread. Easy may be right, I don't know. Does anyone know if this is true?

I've heard that this truism got its start from a ClearChannel survey. Since it was ClearChannel, my immediate question is, how thorough was this survey? And even if "modern" radios don't do better than 5 kHz, what percentage of listeners are using these "modern" radios? I don't have to replace my radios very often. I've got radios from the 60's, 70's, and 80's that work great (I sound like a Mix station, don't I?). So even if 100 percent of "modern" radios are limited to 5 kHz (which I doubt), do they account for a meaningful percentage of the total number of radios being used in the U.S. today?

I would just like to know whether it's true that most radios don't "hear" more than 5 kHz of bandwidth.

I regularly drive a Toyota and GM product. I also have a few AMs that are operated with frequency response right up to the NRSC-2 limits.

Neither radio even comes close. The Toyota does marginally better than the GM, but I doubt it extends past 5K.

The only radio I own that I know is capable of receiving full bandwidth AM is a GE from the 60s that I inherited from my Great Grandma. It sounds fantastic. Put it next to any modern radio like my Sony clock radio or my Kenwood home stereo receiver and it blows it out of the water. I used to have a Pioneer from the late 70s (an SX-650 I believe) and I remember it having very good sounding AM, but outside the GE Superadio, I can't think of a modern radio that exceeds 5 kHz. I'm sure there's a handful of them available, but they're rare.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

outside the GE Superadio, I can't think of a modern radio that exceeds 5 kHz.

I don't have any data to back this up, but it seems to me that the claim that modern radios are limited to 5 kHz must be referring to modern car radios. The GE Superradio and other tabletops (both portable and fixed plug) usually have wider bandwidth settings, don't they? And there are lots of Grundigs and other smallish shortwaves out there that are pretty popular.

And the vast majority of American made cars in the 90's received AM Stereo. So those must be wide bandwidth as well.

It makes sense that car radios have evolved towards having narrow bandwidth. Cars are mobile. They make road trips. So you would want narrow bandwidth when travelling between towns--or just beyond the main city limits.

The AM sides of home stereo components have been an afterthought since the early 80's. Even if they were made with wide bandwidths, they typically didn't sound that great.

 

[vsa]

The stock radios in late-model Ford Explorers have an AM section that sounds pretty good to my ears. Good enough so you can easily hear the background hisssssssssss underneath the audio of every local HD-AM radio station. The shower-effect can also be plainly heard on top of second adjacents. There are a lot of Explorers out there!

 

[EasyPeazy]

I don't have any data to back this up, but it seems to me that the claim that modern radios are limited to 5 kHz must be referring to modern car radios. The GE Superradio and other tabletops (both portable and fixed plug) usually have wider bandwidth settings, don't they? And there are lots of Grundigs and other smallish shortwaves out there that are pretty popular.

And the vast majority of American made cars in the 90's received AM Stereo. So those must be wide bandwidth as well.

It makes sense that car radios have evolved towards having narrow bandwidth. Cars are mobile. They make road trips. So you would want narrow bandwidth when travelling between towns--or just beyond the main city limits.

The AM sides of home stereo components have been an afterthought since the early 80's. Even if they were made with wide bandwidths, they typically didn't sound that great.

I agree with you. Very few people probably listen to AM on home stereo components.

I'm honestly not sure about modern analog portable radios. I haven't tried receiving AM on one in quite a while. I do have a digitally tuned Sony AM/FM Walkman that's about 3 years old and it also suffers the 5 kHz bandwidth on AM.

As for car stereos, you're probably right there too. All I can tell you for sure is new ones in Toyota and GM products don't exceed 5 kHz. The Toyota I spoke of is a 2006 and the GM is a 2005. The GM radio has a rather annoying quality on FM as well. When you tune to an FM frequency it starts out with the highs rolled way back and gradually they come in. It makes it impossible to do A/B comparisons of processing.

 

[Chuck]

The GM radio has a rather annoying quality on FM as well. When you tune to an FM frequency it starts out with the highs rolled way back and gradually they come in. It makes it impossible to do A/B comparisons of processing.

Hmmm. My 2007 Chevy Tahoe with a Bose sound system does that too. It is very annoying. If you figure out how to turn it off, let me know!

It does sound great on CD's, OK on Satellite and good on FM after it has locked on the station and the signal strength goes above some arbitrary threshold. . I guess they figure that if they roll off the highs you won't notice the noise as you get farther away from whatever station you are listening to.

The AM is fairly telephone-like. A few large talk stations have figured out how to process their signal very well and sound good through it. On a recent trip to Dallas, the only music stations that sounded OK (not great) on AM were in languages I don't speak, with the exception of KPYK, which is an eclectic standards station in Terrell, Texas. For some reason, everyone else has rolled off the low end, as well as the highs. I have a telephone answering machine that sounds similar.

 

[Mike Walker]

I've just about given up on much in the way of highs on the AM band on most radios (exceptions being some of my "oldies" from the 30s-50s, Sony SRF-A100, GE Superradio, and a few others), but rolled-off bass response is inexcusable. No increased "bandwidth" for HD or anything else is gained by rolling off the bass. I was VERY pleased to learn that my new Chevy Equinox, WITH SUBWOOFER can lay down some SOLID low end. Hell...I can hear the 25hz automation-sequence tones on some of the network talk shows, and the open E string (about 42hz) on bass guitar is solid, plus kick drum impacts the gut as it should (fortunately there's still some music on very-well-engineered stations in my area. Pretty rare!)

I remember when I was a kid my grandmother had a BIG tube radio. When the local station played the organ music during religious broadcasts, the pedal tones shook the room...ON AM! Imagine that!

 

[R.F. Burns]

I've just about given up on much in the way of highs on the AM band on most radios (exceptions being some of my "oldies" from the 30s-50s, Sony SRF-A100, GE Superradio, and a few others), but rolled-off bass response is inexcusable. No increased "bandwidth" for HD or anything else is gained by rolling off the bass. I was VERY pleased to learn that my new Chevy Equinox, WITH SUBWOOFER can lay down some SOLID low end. Hell...I can hear the 25hz automation-sequence tones on some of the network talk shows, and the open E string (about 42hz) on bass guitar is solid, plus kick drum impacts the gut as it should (fortunately there's still some music on very-well-engineered stations in my area. Pretty rare!)

I remember when I was a kid my grandmother had a BIG tube radio. When the local station played the organ music during religious broadcasts, the pedal tones shook the room...ON AM! Imagine that!

Which networks can you hear 25 Hz tone audio on. Normally that should be filtered before it hits are. That's why it's called Sub Audible. Same with 35 Hz and the combo 25/35 Hz tones. Normally on the decoder end the tone is stripped off.