Barber firing poetic justice?

[Steven21]

I have to admit, when I saw that youtube video where Dave is explaining how the "caller" IS the show, it made me want to toss my cookies. Any host who believes he/she is a mere conduit for callers to get on the air, does not understand what their job is. (The best in the biz demonstrate on a pretty regular basis, how THAT approach is feeble.

I want a STAR doing a show for me, not some humble "I'm not the main attrraction" type. And when I say STAR, I mean an on-air force to be dealt with. Callers or not, he's interesting. Sound bites or not, he's intersting. Slow news day or not, he's interesting.

This golly-gee "I'm not the star" mentality would NOT be hired at any decent station I'm aware of. Callers are one of the many tools you should have in your bag of tricks to keep your show moving. Under NO circumstance should callers BE the show.

No offense to the recently unemployed, but the fewer caller conduits we have on the air, the better. Providence radio just got a little better.

And Dan Yorke still sucks.

 

[Skynet74]

The caller can't be the STAR.... because if the phones ever go down you suddenly become useless. So to a point I agree with you. The main attraction is the DUDE with the SHOW.

 

[Holland Cooke]

David Bernstein: Use this in the university class you teach!

Others may want to save this too.

In the upper-right-hand corner of your keyboard, there's a key that says "prt sc."
That's short for "print screen."
It's a "Copy" function that grabs a picture of the screen.
You can Paste it into MSWord and other programs.

Print THIS screen.
You'll want to save it.
People IN AN INTERNET FORUM are critical of radio being too interactive.

 

[Steven21]

Re: David Bernstein: Use this in the university class you teach!

Others may want to save this too.

In the upper-right-hand corner of your keyboard, there's a key that says "prt sc."
That's short for "print screen."
It's a "Copy" function that grabs a picture of the screen.
You can Paste it into MSWord and other programs.

Print THIS screen.
You'll want to save it.
People IN AN INTERNET FORUM are critical of radio being too interactive.

Nobody is saying a talk show shouldn't be interactive. But what it SHOULD NOT be, is reliant on what is merely a tool for the host----the calls. This whole "we're your public forum" routine is misguided and ridiculous. Talk show hosts are (or at least should be) entertainers, not operators who simply get the call on the air. A successful talk show host is one that doesn't throw the show to the callers.

If I were Dave Barber, I would beg to have that youtube video taken down, because it showcases a "host" who claims to not be as entertaining as his callers.

I would NEVER hire that person.

 

[Skynet74]

If I had my own program, I would be pretty insulted if someone came up to me and said that the best thing about my show are the Callers. The only worse thing a person could tell me is that their favorite part of my program is "THE END".

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "I would NEVER hire that person."

Thank you for raising a useful point.

If you owned a restaurant, would you rather have it crowded? Or not?

Here's my point, based on lots of time sitting behind the one-way mirror: NOBODY WOULD say "I love your callers." But someone sure could say "I love your SHOW." And only after the focus group moderator probed would we ascertain that all-those-callers were what-made-the-show-magnetic.

Admittedly, I have a luxury many here don't enjoy.
I don't have to be anonymous.
I can't get fired, because I don't have a boss.

Not that I don't work!
About 4.9 days a week, I feel like all-I-DO-is-work.
And if I'm not getting results, I'm OUT-of-work.

But I'm not burdened by the whim of an employer.
So I respect the need for many here to stay below-the-radar.
The sniping that comes with that is a reasonable price-of-admission.

The opportunity to post anonymously is, as you can see, a double-edged sword.
The Good News is FREE SPEECH.
Anyone can tawk...without Suffering The Consequences.
The Bad News is FREE SPEECH.
ANYONE can tawk, whether-or-not THEIR hypotheses require the marketplace validation that pays my mortgage.
But free speech is precious; and "you can't get 'a little pregnant,'" eh?

So preach it out.

But saying things like "I would NEVER hire that person," comes without perspective.
Being anonymous means nobody reading any of this knows whom-you-HAVE-hired.
There's no benchmark underlying you-telling-me-I'm-wrong so empirically.
(As though there were abosolutes.)

EVERYONE here sure has an opinion.
Everyone here MAY.
Everyone here SHOULD.
Everyone hosting Talk Radio MUST, a point Dave Barber made in that video y'all reference.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wZMUbwOrZU)

What NONE OF US can change is how Arbitron works, and which-way-the-horse-is-facing. With wireless phones having-become "the new transistor radio," and so-many-DOZEN-other in-our-face clues that interactivity is icing we-talk-you-listen media, it's no suprise that successful hosts are often those provocateurs who...PROVOKE lively interaction on-air.

Then there's El Rushbo and his eroding horizontal maintenance.
God Bless.

A successful talk show host is one that doesn't throw the show to the callers.

If that is axiomatic to the success of whomever-you've-hired to host, or whatever-station(s)-you-manage/have-managed, DON'T CHANGE, just because someone-doing-what-I-or-anyone-else-has-recommended is different.

Arbitron is agnostic.

And -- at-the-risk-of-sounding-like-a-consultant -- "note the obvious." Here we are, having a vigorous discussion. INTERACTING, y'know? And I'll bet that radio-info.com gets more traffic that I-write-you-read www.HollandCooke.com

But, as one sniper suggested elsewhere here, radio is different?

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

PS: See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FonOwlry9I, for which this afternoon's email brought flattering, unsolicited praise from one Vin Ciavatta, Senior Account Manager, Arbitron Radio Station Services ([email protected]), who wrote to volunteer: "What you say about
improving a station's ratings is the same thing I say to my clients." Keep an open mind.

PPS: Was it P.T. Barnum who said, "Say what you will about me. Just spell my name right?"

Dave wouldn't have to beg for me to delete that video.
But right now, he's a free agent.
And here we are buzzing his thread to the top of the pile.
And you should see what all of this is doing to MY server stats.

 

[Steven21]

Re: RE "I would NEVER hire that person."

The restaurant analogy is specious.

The parallel to be drawn is in equating a crowded restaurant with a highly rated program---not necessarily a program that airs tons of calls. There are plenty of shows that do nothing but throw out bombs to incite those who react to every low hanging fruit the trite host cares to wave.

Filling the board with calls IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be the goal. This idea that those flashing phone lights directly reflect how good your show is, is a reckless and misguided assertion.

The CALLERS may not in fact be the customers you're after. A host needs to have a sense for what is entertaining. The VAST MAJORITY of listeners will never call you, yet it is your job to see that those people are entertained non-stop. Calls or not. Interaction or not.

Any host who believes the callers are the show, needs to be replaced by a monkey. They can push phone line buttons too AND they cannot read their paycheck, so they'll never know you're paying them in question marks.

 

[Holland Cooke]

"Filling the board with calls IS NOT and SHOULD not be the goal"

"OK, never mind," Cooke shrugged, pushing the thread back to the top of the board.

Had he known that absolutes such as the anonymous poster's pronouncement were so-readily-available, the consultant would have, instead, become a plumber. Based on his own efforts to get one to show up lately, and the hourly rate plumbers charge, the marketplace suggests more opportune ROI on less-debatable matters.

Still, Cooke remained -- as it says in large letters on the side of his boat, a Pearson 37, hull #3 -- "Undaunted."

Ever the shamless self-promoter, he CONTINUED offering radio-info.com readers a free copy of his February newsletter. It's an instant autoresponder download for anyone who sends even a blank Email to [email protected]

 

[jazzjock]

Callers are one of the many tools you should have in your bag of tricks to keep your show moving. Under NO circumstance should callers BE the show.

And Dan Yorke still sucks.

SO Dan Yorke tries to have 'geezer' calls and older sounding people screened so they dont get on air, because he feels they do not keep the show moving, and he gets slammed..?

There is a contradiction here.

Dave I think is being modest. He was very entertaining in his own right!

Jazzy

 

[Holland Cooke]

"How do YOU feel? One, eight hundred..."

SO Dan Yorke tries to have 'geezer' calls and older sounding people screened so they don't get on air, because he feels they do not keep the show moving, and he gets slammed?

RE Dan: No comment.

Dave I think is being modest. He was very entertaining in his own right!

I agree, on both counts.

Thus my use of the term "provocateur" earlier.
ATTRACTING interesting callers tests the host's skill.

The point Dave made so well in that video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wZMUbwOrZU) echoes the-point-I-made in "12 Seconds of Greatness: How The-Very-FIRST-Thing You Say Can MULTIPLY Your Ratings" at Talkers magazine's New Media Seminar in NYNY last year.

Too many hosts (NO NAMES) "almost prep."
What THEY regard as "a set-up" is rambling.
They think-aloud until the call-in proposition pops-out.

What Barber's work is a-clinic-in is grabbing-the-listener's-attention-quickly.
Over-estimate the listener's attention span at your own risk.

In addition to the blur they live, here's another reason why:
THEY BELIEVED THE PROMOS.
Smart stations systematically, relentlessly, remind folks to check-in on-hour for a quick update.
Many-who-mostly-listen-to-music-FM take-us-up-on the offer.
Before an index finger can get from the steering wheel to the FM button, ENGAGE THEM, y'know?
Barber does that real, real well.

I heard him the morning after the State of The Union.
The newscast ended.
Before "hello," and without announcing-that-the-president-had-spoken-the-night-before, or saying "Bush," Dave opened:
"DID YOU WATCH? DOES HE 'GET IT?' IS HE CLUELESS?" [phone number]
It went three hours, passionate comments from wall-to-wall callers.

Some hosts, and posters here, prefer the host...talking...

 

[Steven21]

Re: "How do YOU feel? One, eight hundred..."

Caller dependency, does not a great talkshow host make.

Also, as far as screening out the geezers. There should NEVER be a hard fast rule governing WHO gets on. Some callers young and old are GREAT. Some callers young and old are HORRIBLE. Some callers should be allowed on once per day. Some once per decade. Some can be good for 10 seconds. Some can be good for 10 minutes.

GREAT hosts know how to do a great show whether there are many calls or not. Insisting calls and callers are the determining factor in the quality of a show is simply ridiculous.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Yet-another example of how life imitates "Annie Hall"

I feel like Alvie in that scene where he and Annie are in line (or, as they say in Noo Yawk, "on line") in the movie theatre lobby...

 

[djjc213]

This argument definitely has two schools of thought. I mean some callers think its great they get on, it's a short lived high for them. I admit though, I sometimes consider more calls an indication of either a weak host OR poor show prep. I don't make this judgement though until I have heard the rest of the host's body of work. If I was interested in the "show" regardless of the min or max of callers, then I consider that something of talent by the host. THAT is knowing your audience.

One of my personal favorite hosts does a great job of this. Jim Rome. I mean, he has both sides. He can come out one day and say he has open phones, yet never takes a call on air because the content of the caller sucked. I mean his montras say it all.

"More of me and less of you is a good thing"

"Have a take, don't suck, or get run"

Now I will admit, his style is not everyone's cup of tea, but its quite obvious he is talented and valued as a host.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Well said! GREAT example.

One of my personal favorite hosts does a great job of this. Jim Rome.

What Rome and Barber and other practitioners "get" is that they're competing for share-of-mind in a mentally-BUSY world.

Talk radio can't just be "latte;" it needs to be "espresso."
A lively, crowded show, with a fully-distilled proposition, and lots of give-and-take, is that espresso.

 

[Steven21]

Re: Well said! GREAT example.

One of my personal favorite hosts does a great job of this. Jim Rome.

What Rome and Barber and other practitioners "get" is that they're competing for share-of-mind in a mentally-BUSY world.

Talk radio can't just be "latte;" it needs to be "espresso."
A lively, crowded show, with a fully-distilled proposition, and lots of give-and-take, is that espresso.

Ironically you put Barber and Rome in the same sentence.

It is obvious that you favor the ol' "Hey, this is your forum. Give us a call!" kind of approach.

I am a big fan of PERSONALITY radio. Host driven shows are aces. Caller driven show hosts are....expendable.

 

[Holland Cooke]

On behalf of EVERYONE reading this...

I am a big fan of PERSONALITY radio. Host driven shows are aces. Caller driven show hosts are....expendable.

...please, please, PLEASE know that you've made your point...about a-page-back.

GOT it.

Not that those-of-us who sign with URLs don't appreciate the traffic value of a circular conversation.
Thanks again for keeping this thread atop the News/Talk board.
But KNOW, puh-LEEEEEEZ know, that you have not failed-to-communicate.

And to all, a good night,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[Steven21]

Re: On behalf of EVERYONE reading this...

I am a big fan of PERSONALITY radio. Host driven shows are aces. Caller driven show hosts are....expendable.

...please, please, PLEASE know that you've made your point...about a-page-back.

GOT it.

Not that those-of-us who sign with URLs don't appreciate the traffic value of a circular conversation.
Thanks again for keeping this thread atop the News/Talk board.
But KNOW, puh-LEEEEEEZ know, that you have not failed-to-communicate.

And to all, a good night,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

As if it takes a lot to sign with a URL.

Watch this:

www.HollandCooke.com


There. Not so tough.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Watch this...

And your URL?

 

[djjc213]

I have to interject to clarify my post. I was showing the contrast between Jim & Dave.

Jim can go hours or days without even taking a call and still do a great show.

That was my point with the "less of you and more of me" as he says.