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Bauerle Silenced
- Thread starter Element9
- Start date
Ah, that explains the run on tin foil hats at The Spy Outlet...
B
Bob1370
Guest
They're not lacking for workable transmitters to pump 5 kW into their antenna, that's for sure. In addition to its nearly new Harris DX-10 main, WBEN has not one, but two Rockwell-Collins backups that used to be their alternate main transmitters when they were first installed during the station's total re-fit in the late 70s (and last I heard, still work well). And AFAIK, they still have that big diesel generator for auxiliary power in case electric service fails.
If they totally lost all audio for 30 minutes, it'd have to be either a meltdown at the studio which left them unable to feed programming and running a dead carrier (in which case, did WGR also go silent at the same time?) or a failure in the STL system sending the programming from Amherst out to the Island (which could happen without taking out any other station in the cluster, since the other transmitters are located elsewhere and fed by different STLs). A transmitter carrier dump that WBEN couldn't get around by either bringing the main back on line, firing up the generator, or powering up one of their two spare transmitters, is the least likely thing to happen.
If they totally lost all audio for 30 minutes, it'd have to be either a meltdown at the studio which left them unable to feed programming and running a dead carrier (in which case, did WGR also go silent at the same time?) or a failure in the STL system sending the programming from Amherst out to the Island (which could happen without taking out any other station in the cluster, since the other transmitters are located elsewhere and fed by different STLs). A transmitter carrier dump that WBEN couldn't get around by either bringing the main back on line, firing up the generator, or powering up one of their two spare transmitters, is the least likely thing to happen.
Only one of the Collins transmitters is still usable. The other was disconnected to facilitate the installation of the DX-10 in 1997. Unless something has changed in the past few years, there is still A.C. and audio to Collins 'A' but there is no easy way to get it into the antenna. In any case it hasn't been powered up since '97. Collins 'B' is the backup transmitter. 30 minutes sounds like just about enough time to get to the site and switch to the other power feeder in the basement so maybe it was that age old generator they have not coming up when needed.
Thanks for the "Inside Baseball" perspective, TVJ12.
No question, WBEN was off the air, absent a carrier. I was driving the Youngman (I-290) at around 9:08 a.m. when I first noticed this as I manually scanned through the AM band. WBEN was off until around 9:30 a.m. (coincidentally), when Bauerle could be heard faintly saying "I guess they can hear us now in North Buffalo..." as if the transmitter was putting out 50 Watts.
Nothing so loudly shouts as a muted talk show host.
No question, WBEN was off the air, absent a carrier. I was driving the Youngman (I-290) at around 9:08 a.m. when I first noticed this as I manually scanned through the AM band. WBEN was off until around 9:30 a.m. (coincidentally), when Bauerle could be heard faintly saying "I guess they can hear us now in North Buffalo..." as if the transmitter was putting out 50 Watts.
Nothing so loudly shouts as a muted talk show host.
Just curious: a 10kw transmitter for a 5kw authorization?? Why?
Back in the days of high-level plate-modulated tube transmitters there was a "school of thought" that installing a 10kw rig provided more headroom for high-mod operation without fatiguing the modulator section. Doesn't seem like that rationale would apply in the era of solid state PDM/PWM boxes.
Or was/is WBEN looking to a possible power increase?
Back in the days of high-level plate-modulated tube transmitters there was a "school of thought" that installing a 10kw rig provided more headroom for high-mod operation without fatiguing the modulator section. Doesn't seem like that rationale would apply in the era of solid state PDM/PWM boxes.
Or was/is WBEN looking to a possible power increase?
Savage said:
Because they wanted to purchase a Harris DX series transmitter and a 10kw running at half power was the only one to get at the time. The DX50 on KB had been in for about two years at the time and was quite reliable. The DX series overall was proven to work well, so Keymarket (owner at the time and in an aside, engineering had much more say in technical matters at that time) spent the extra bucks and got it over a Gates Five or a Continental (those were the ones under consideration). Strange thing about the DX10 though, if a power module fails you would expect it to cause no real problems since the transmitter is running at half power but what actually happens is audible distortion on the air. But on the flip side, I can't vouch for the recent past, but during the first several years it was in service there was only one module failure. Not a bad record.
Thanks for the info, Junkie. I've gotta say: that's odd, with the audio distortion at reduced power. WYSL has a 25,000 watt Nautel AMPFET-25, with 24 PWM modules, total power capability = 31kw. It loafs along all day at 21kw TPO with no distortion whatsoever. I've also had module failures (blown fuses from transients) on both the Nautel and the BE AM-2.5 former main/now nighttime Tx forcing temporary reduced power with no audio consequences. Can't help but wonder whether WBEN has some antenna load issues which are masked when the station's at full power?
No, the antenna system was OK. The distortion just seemed to be an anomaly of the DX10 when there was a bad module.
I wonder if it would ever be practical to move WBEN out to the Big Tree Road site? Then it might be worth it to have a transmitter engineer out there to at least cover morning drive. I know it's usually not needed but it would sure improve reaction time if there was a problem at the transmitter. They'd probably rather run make goods for the missed spots rather than pay someone. Seems like there would be lots of things for an engineer to do while he's out there.
It was my understanding the DX series could run with failed modules but at slightly reduced power. So does anyone know what the problem was?
It was my understanding the DX series could run with failed modules but at slightly reduced power. So does anyone know what the problem was?
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Bob1370
Guest
Moving WBEN to Big Tree probably wouldn't be a good idea. The towers there are a little shorter, so groundwave would be a little weaker at any distance even when you set aside the extra coverage you get when your site is surrounded by water (the forks of the Niagara River) on a couple of sides.
It MIGHT be worth considering, however, to either diplex WBEN and WWKB on the 'BEN Grand Island site, or use the two towers once used by WHLD, only one of which is now in use as the platform for Kiss 98.5's antenna (you might get a comparable pattern out of two towers in an arguably better location for Buffalo area coverage than Hamburg is now) and let Big Tree serve WGR alone.
It MIGHT be worth considering, however, to either diplex WBEN and WWKB on the 'BEN Grand Island site, or use the two towers once used by WHLD, only one of which is now in use as the platform for Kiss 98.5's antenna (you might get a comparable pattern out of two towers in an arguably better location for Buffalo area coverage than Hamburg is now) and let Big Tree serve WGR alone.
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JustPastBuffalo
Guest
Knowledgeable sources familiar with the WBEN, WGR and WWKB transmitter operations say any thought of moving the WWKB transmitter plant to Grand Island would be very difficult and might even make KB vulnerable to facilities changes for other stations operating on 1520 kHz. KB's 50 kW pattern needs 3 towers to protect other stations on 1520, most notably KOMA.
As to WGR, it most likely would not be able to run its 5 kW night pattern off two towers. However, WGR could operate with 1 kW on two towers, as it did many, many years ago when TransAmerica owned WGR AM-FM-TV. At that time, WGR was 5 kW-D, ND and 1 kW-N off two towers. The 1 kW night pattern was far less restricted than the current 5 kW night pattern.
The sources, who wish to remain anonymous, were adamant in noting the Big Tree Road site is in need of serious capital improvements, especially with regard to tuning networks and ground systems. WBEN remains the queen of Entercom's AM cluster and the sources say even WBEN needs some TLC at the Grand Island site.
As to WGR, it most likely would not be able to run its 5 kW night pattern off two towers. However, WGR could operate with 1 kW on two towers, as it did many, many years ago when TransAmerica owned WGR AM-FM-TV. At that time, WGR was 5 kW-D, ND and 1 kW-N off two towers. The 1 kW night pattern was far less restricted than the current 5 kW night pattern.
The sources, who wish to remain anonymous, were adamant in noting the Big Tree Road site is in need of serious capital improvements, especially with regard to tuning networks and ground systems. WBEN remains the queen of Entercom's AM cluster and the sources say even WBEN needs some TLC at the Grand Island site.
JustPastBuffalo said:
Proving that more power is not always better especially if you have to pull in the pattern.
I hate to hear that about the Big Tree site. Didn't they bury what had been the above ground tranmission lines back in the late '80's? Seems like that would have been a good time to work on the ground system and tuning networks.
Well at least it's not as bad as Clear Channel's WIOD Miami. Their 2 tower directional is in the middle of the WSVN-TV parking lot. WIOD is receiving complaints because pieces of the towers are rusting and falling into the parking lot!
When will we get owners that are interested in doing radio right?
Mike Sheridan said:
Yes, the transmission line feeds are all buried at Big Tree Road.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"Knowledgeable sources familiar with the WBEN, WGR and WWKB transmitter operations say any thought of moving the WWKB transmitter plant to Grand Island would be very difficult and might even make KB vulnerable to facilities changes for other stations operating on 1520 kHz. KB's 50 kW pattern needs 3 towers to protect other stations on 1520, most notably KOMA."
That may or may not be an issue depending on how you configure the pattern and who you have to protect. If KOMA is the one station you have to worry about, then all you need to do is throw a deep null to the west-southwest in the direction of Oklahoma City, beginning at Oklahoma City local sunset. You could conceivably do that on two, three or however many towers you want in order to get both the sharp narrow null you need, and the gain in field strength in other directions you want. If other stations enter into the equation that may be a different story, but I don't know how stations that started up on 1520 AFTER KB and KOMA established priority on the channel back in 1941 rate in terms of protection.
"As to WGR, it most likely would not be able to run its 5 kW night pattern off two towers. However, WGR could operate with 1 kW on two towers, as it did many, many years ago when TransAmerica owned WGR AM-FM-TV. At that time, WGR was 5 kW-D, ND and 1 kW-N off two towers. The 1 kW night pattern was far less restricted than the current 5 kW night pattern."
Probably couldn't do much to change GR's night pattern at least to the west, where both WKRC and KTRS need protection. There might be a little room to let it out to the east. That pattern, I've been told, was drawn a lot tighter than it needed to be when the plant was built in 1941 because the eastern 'burbs that are being nulled out now were very thinly populated in the 1940s...and they wanted to shoot as much field strength north toward Toronto as they could, because they were Toronto's de facto CBS network source and American stations could make significant money selling ads to Canadian accounts back then. WKBW was made a DA-1 rather than a DA-N facility back then for similar reasons...KB threw more power than absolutely necessary to the east, in order to grab listeners in the western half of the Rochester market at a time when Rochester didn't have a full complement of network affiliate stations (it had only NBC Red from WHAM, CBS from WHEC, and local independent WSAY. missing NBC Blue/ABC, which KB provided until Rochester's WARC/950 signed on as an ABC affiliate in 1947).
That may or may not be an issue depending on how you configure the pattern and who you have to protect. If KOMA is the one station you have to worry about, then all you need to do is throw a deep null to the west-southwest in the direction of Oklahoma City, beginning at Oklahoma City local sunset. You could conceivably do that on two, three or however many towers you want in order to get both the sharp narrow null you need, and the gain in field strength in other directions you want. If other stations enter into the equation that may be a different story, but I don't know how stations that started up on 1520 AFTER KB and KOMA established priority on the channel back in 1941 rate in terms of protection.
"As to WGR, it most likely would not be able to run its 5 kW night pattern off two towers. However, WGR could operate with 1 kW on two towers, as it did many, many years ago when TransAmerica owned WGR AM-FM-TV. At that time, WGR was 5 kW-D, ND and 1 kW-N off two towers. The 1 kW night pattern was far less restricted than the current 5 kW night pattern."
Probably couldn't do much to change GR's night pattern at least to the west, where both WKRC and KTRS need protection. There might be a little room to let it out to the east. That pattern, I've been told, was drawn a lot tighter than it needed to be when the plant was built in 1941 because the eastern 'burbs that are being nulled out now were very thinly populated in the 1940s...and they wanted to shoot as much field strength north toward Toronto as they could, because they were Toronto's de facto CBS network source and American stations could make significant money selling ads to Canadian accounts back then. WKBW was made a DA-1 rather than a DA-N facility back then for similar reasons...KB threw more power than absolutely necessary to the east, in order to grab listeners in the western half of the Rochester market at a time when Rochester didn't have a full complement of network affiliate stations (it had only NBC Red from WHAM, CBS from WHEC, and local independent WSAY. missing NBC Blue/ABC, which KB provided until Rochester's WARC/950 signed on as an ABC affiliate in 1947).
S
scooterodell
Guest
"Bob1370," I would love to see you go toe-to-toe with Scott Fybush in an all-out radio history challenge. 
Scott Fybush said:scooterodell said:"Bob1370," I would love to see you go toe-to-toe with Scott Fybush in an all-out radio history challenge.
Stop by the second floor of 280 State Street any afternoon that we're both working...
If we did that you guys would never get any work done and we'd keep you there far too late. I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge you guys have. I thought I was a radio history junkie!
Probably the first thing I'd ask Scott would be since he's seen so many transmitter sites which one is his favorite if he has one.
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