Bay Area country formats - what would work today?

[DaveBayArea]

This grew out of the "predictions" thread and I think it would be fun to hear some opinions. We all know that several people have tried plain old Nashville formats and failed. But maybe they haven't done it "right". There's been discussion about mixing in rockabilly, western swing, and even bluegrass into a country format - even replacing country with something similar and ignoring Nashville altogether. So what would you do? Play the national hits? Play a pick of the hits but not all? Build your own playlist? Tight rotation? Lots of variety? A large number of currents? How far back should you go with the classics? Personality-driven? That last one seemed to work for The Wolf at first, then it sorta fizzled. What do you think?

Dave B.

 

[TheBigA]

This grew out of the "predictions" thread and I think it would be fun to hear some opinions. We all know that several people have tried plain old Nashville formats and failed.

But as I've said, they've also succeeded. It depends who ran them, and what they did. But what I know is mixing in unknown songs by rockabilly, western swing, or bluegrass bands will not get ratings or make money. The fact is that Nashville knows what they're doing, they're selling records, they're filling stadiums and large venues, and creating music that is clearly appealing to large numbers of people. It would be smart for someone to find a way to tap into that, and bring it to the people of San Francisco. Don't let past failures prejudice the potential for success. Use success to show the way for future success. Country may not get a 7 share. But it will do better than Entercom is doing now with sports on FM.

 

[DavidKaye]

The fact is that Nashville knows what they're doing, they're selling records, they're filling stadiums and large venues, and creating music that is clearly appealing to large numbers of people.

But they're not doing it HERE. There is but ONE Texas-style country dance venue in the Bay Area, the Saddle Rack in Fremont, and even they're closed 3 nights a week! In Texas any city of size has a dozen of these places. The Bay Area can barely support one.

Nashville Sound is HATED here. The fact that KNEW and KSAN succeeded a couple decades ago was that they played a blend of styles customized for local tastes. It seems that nobody wants to do that now. One size does not fit all.

Now, today, Dolly Parton appeared in Concord. Notice first that she appeared in Concord, not in Oakland, San Francisco, or even San Jose. Second, Dolly is an exception because she's Dolly.

On the other hand, Blake Shelton, the current #1 country artist, has nothing scheduled at all in California except one in Costa Mesa, in Socal.

Jason Aldean has one show locally, at Shoreline. The ticket price is rock-bottom at $30. I can't think of any musical artist whose ticket price was so low at Shoreline.

The closest thing to Frisco for Brad Paisley, a leading country star is Frisco Texas. Nothing planned for California.

About the closest to star power any country musician is drawing locally is Taylor Swift -- she has 4 dates in LA, two in San Jose (well there is a country music station in SJ after all), and one in Sacramento.

 

[TheBigA]

But they're not doing it HERE. There is but ONE Texas-style country dance venue in the Bay Area,

We're talking about radio stations, not line dance clubs.

Nashville Sound is HATED here. The fact that KNEW and KSAN succeeded a couple decades ago was that they played a blend of styles customized for local tastes.

That's not true at all. KSAN was a straight-ahead country radio station not much different from what they're doing in San Jose. KNEW was a traditional classic country station. But KSAN got better numbers with Garth Brooks and other popular artists of the time. Everyone likes to think their market is unique, but when you look at what the top rated stations are playing, it's not customized at all. KOIT is playing Adele, Maroon 5, and Sting. These are popular national acts that everyone knows.

 

[wirelessfugu]

Bay Area operators tinker with the Country format too much. The Wolf
died because Entercom uses Edison Research and they told them to
avoid "country" sounding songs and try to be mainstream. How do you
do that with Country. The Bear was the same way. KSAN won because
it was Country.

 

[TheBigA]

Bay Area operators tinker with the Country format too much. The Wolf
died because Entercom uses Edison Research and they told them to
avoid "country" sounding songs and try to be mainstream. How do you
do that with Country. The Bear was the same way. KSAN won because
it was Country.

That's exactly right. The same mistake was made with KZLA. They added The Eagles and America, and audiences tuned out. They also assumed people wanted to hear Waylon & Willie, and that also led to tune out.

 

[suburbandj]

The fact is that Nashville knows what they're doing, they're selling records, they're filling stadiums and large venues, and creating music that is clearly appealing to large numbers of people.

But they're not doing it HERE. There is but ONE Texas-style country dance venue in the Bay Area, the Saddle Rack in Fremont, and even they're closed 3 nights a week! In Texas any city of size has a dozen of these places. The Bay Area can barely support one.

Nashville Sound is HATED here. The fact that KNEW and KSAN succeeded a couple decades ago was that they played a blend of styles customized for local tastes. It seems that nobody wants to do that now. One size does not fit all.

Now, today, Dolly Parton appeared in Concord. Notice first that she appeared in Concord, not in Oakland, San Francisco, or even San Jose. Second, Dolly is an exception because she's Dolly.

On the other hand, Blake Shelton, the current #1 country artist, has nothing scheduled at all in California except one in Costa Mesa, in Socal.

Jason Aldean has one show locally, at Shoreline. The ticket price is rock-bottom at $30. I can't think of any musical artist whose ticket price was so low at Shoreline.

The closest thing to Frisco for Brad Paisley, a leading country star is Frisco Texas. Nothing planned for California.

About the closest to star power any country musician is drawing locally is Taylor Swift -- she has 4 dates in LA, two in San Jose (well there is a country music station in SJ after all), and one in Sacramento.


Four Big Shoreline shows this summer

Jason Aldean with Clay Walker

Toby Keith

Sugarland

Rascal Flatts with Sara Evans

 

[DavidKaye]

That's not true at all. KSAN was a straight-ahead country radio station not much different from what they're doing in San Jose. KNEW was a traditional classic country station. But KSAN got better numbers with Garth Brooks and other popular artists of the time. Everyone likes to think their market is unique, but when you look at what the top rated stations are playing, it's not customized at all. KOIT is playing Adele, Maroon 5, and Sting. These are popular national acts that everyone knows.

If this is the case then why do stations spend thousands of dollars testing music in their markets?

 

[radio dx]

I enjoyed listening to both KSAN and KNEW back in the 1980' it took a while but both stations grew on me. You had a choice of what type of country you wanted between the two stations and KNEW was a great personality driven station including it's news team.

I can still remember Steve Jordan, Jon Whalen, Tom Brenner and newsman John Cannelli just to name a few. It was like listening to KNBR it felt like "family" could this format work in the bay area now? probably not but it was sure fun to listen to back then.

 

[TheBigA]

If this is the case then why do stations spend thousands of dollars testing music in their markets?

I'd be curious to know how many station in SF actually do this.

 

[weav]

If this is the case then why do stations spend thousands of dollars testing music in their markets?

I'd be curious to know how many station in SF actually do this.

I know that Energy *did* (and I'm reasonably sure the successor doesn't). Kinda suspect that Now does but no info.

 

[TheBigA]

Here's one thing I know: KOIT is one of the top-rated stations in SF, and a casual look at their playlist shows them playing a lot of country acts...more than a dozen. Rascal Flatts, Lady Antebellum, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, Martina McBride, Faith Hill, LeAnn Rimes, and Shania Twain. Even some classic country acts like Eddie Rabbitt and Crystal Gayle. So people in SF have a country station masquerading as a rock station. I notice the same thing in NYC, where the same group of country artists get played on W-Lite.

If these stations are doing music research, and they're playing country artists, then it demonstrates there's a market in SF for a country station.

 

[Geek-O-Rama]

But they're not doing it HERE. There is but ONE Texas-style country dance venue in the Bay Area,

We're talking about radio stations, not line dance clubs.

Nashville Sound is HATED here. The fact that KNEW and KSAN succeeded a couple decades ago was that they played a blend of styles customized for local tastes.

That's not true at all. KSAN was a straight-ahead country radio station not much different from what they're doing in San Jose. KNEW was a traditional classic country station. But KSAN got better numbers with Garth Brooks and other popular artists of the time. Everyone likes to think their market is unique, but when you look at what the top rated stations are playing, it's not customized at all. KOIT is playing Adele, Maroon 5, and Sting. These are popular national acts that everyone knows.

So KSAN after years of success failed in the mid 90s, KNEW lasted a bit longer but had lower expectations. Young Country failed, 95.7 The Bear and 95.7 The Wolf both failed. Maybe there just aren't enough fans here to listen to non stop Country Music here? Country concerts work in New York & LA too but Country stations fail there as well and the three markets are quite different.

 

[TheBigA]

So KSAN after years of success failed in the mid 90s, KNEW lasted a bit longer but had lower expectations. Young Country failed, 95.7 The Bear and 95.7 The Wolf both failed. Maybe there just aren't enough fans here to listen to non stop Country Music here? Country concerts work in New York & LA too but Country stations fail there as well and the three markets are quite different.

Failure is a relative term. There are stations on the air now that have lower ratings than The Wolf did before it flipped. One of those stations happens to be the sports talk format that replaced country. First and foremost, a country station needs to be a GOOD RADIO STATION. That's more important than the music it plays. One of the problems is that quite often, the stations simply suck, regardless of the music.

 

[DaveBayArea]

Failure is a relative term. There are stations on the air now that have lower ratings than The Wolf did before it flipped. One of those stations happens to be the sports talk format that replaced country. First and foremost, a country station needs to be a GOOD RADIO STATION. That's more important than the music it plays. One of the problems is that quite often, the stations simply suck, regardless of the music.

That's very true. Bad radio is bad, no matter what. But we tend to get wrapped up in ratings, and yes, it means a lot. But it's not an end-all. What matters is what you can sell. Perhaps the sales to Bay Alarm and Speedy Oil Change and the other sponsors that automatically come with A's baseball are simply easier than trying to sell Country.

Also, you have to look at the Bay Area demographics. I can't find a handy breakdown of Country Music listeners, but I can tell you from going to shows that the music does not attract a very ethnic audience (granted, some radio airplay might change that) and most of the people at the shows appear older than the ones I typically see in a public setting. So perhaps the target audience doesn't fit a large enough segment of the area population in the targeted demographics.

Dave B.

 

[TheBigA]

I can tell you from going to shows that the music does not attract a very ethnic audience (granted, some radio airplay might change that) and most of the people at the shows appear older than the ones I typically see in a public setting. So perhaps the target audience doesn't fit a large enough segment of the area population in the targeted demographics.

If you go to see Aldean at Shoreline, the audience is mostly couples in their 20s. Same with Chesney, Paisley, or any other major act. Can't sell something to young marrieds? You need to get a new line of work.

As I said, many of these artists are already getting airplay in other formats. Only the ones in hats don't cross over. But if Rascal Flatts is OK on the #1 station in SF, then the music or the demo it attracts isn't the problem.

 

[MarioMania]

Period, If it's not CHR or Hip-Hop in SF..it will fail

 

[emprex]

you can listen to 95.7 HD2

 

[SFStatic]

Not hip hop or CHR and it will fail? Tell that to KQED, KCBS, & KOIT. They all bury every single hip hop and CHR that comes along.

 

[DaveBayArea]

If you go to see Aldean at Shoreline, the audience is mostly couples in their 20s. Same with Chesney, Paisley, or any other major act. Can't sell something to young marrieds? You need to get a new line of work.

Strangely enough, I found myself outside of Shoreline that day, working at a colo site. There were a bunch of folks having a good time in the parking lot, getting ready for the show. They were from Tracy. No couples, but a grand collection of good ol' boys, probably in their early 30's, with a rather loud stereo in one of the trucks. The atmosphere appeared to be one where open container laws were not enforced. I believe they made it into the show, but I left quite a while before showtime.

Dave B.