Beatport-Territory Restricted

[Mid West Clubber]

has this ever happened to you when downloading on BeatPort.... Can be very frustrating, its no wonder they cant sell dance music, You cant even buy most of the good Dance here in the states. I guess it has to do with the labels only releasing the song to certain countries, but that only encourages people to run to limewire.

 

[Libra28]

Here in the UK I have the same problem, I can get UK dance music by contacts in record labels etc, but when I go to use beatport to download US dance, I can't!!

 

[JohnParker]

Most likely what your trying to download is a song that has been licensed by a label, from another label, and they only have the rights for certain territories and the one that your credit card comes from isn't one of those areas.

When the original label or production company reaches a deal with someone in the country that you live in, then they will make that song available.

This is done to protect the labels ability to shop a song in various countries. After all, nobody that is going to invest a lot of money into a record that has already been on the open market. That reduces their ability to make money.

It's a problem that while not unique to dance music, it's certainly more of an everyday problem. For the record, imports are also technically against the law for the same reason. The problem with that is that most labels have a hard time tracking down the info they need to stop every instance of that. In the new digital era, that problem is one that's very simple to solve. As you can see, it works. Does it drive people to P2P sites, maybe but the licensing label wouldn't have seen that money anyway.

jp

 

[Mid West Clubber]

Thanks JP, I knew you would be the best one to answer this question, and really it all makes sense now....THANKS>>>>

 

[TonySantiago]

Hey John!

For the record, the following statements I make are being said more in the case of wanting to know answers and with a sense of "frustration" and NOT geared towards any label, artists etc. You made a great point John and I just want to dive deeper into it.

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So, what do we do in the meantime?

I could understand 20 years ago in the age of vinyl when imports were tagged with higher prices than the average $3.99 12" record. Yet they still got here in one way, shape or form...and it is based on the difficulty of tracking that you've mentioned. So in that sense, since the labels have more control regarding what gets out digitally or not, the big question is...would I get busted for illegally downloading a track that would NEVER HAVE BEEN made available for me legally, THOUGH I would have been more than willing to purchase it if it was readily available? (even if I paid an extra dollar to settle whatever "imports" fees?)

Let me make a case in point. I had wanted to download Booty Luv's "Some Kinda Rush". I went to iTunes. It wasn't available in the US BUT was available in the UK store, but I couldn't download it. It WASN'T available on Beatport. I am sure it is on the P2Ps but being that I want to SUPPORT the music, I won't go that route. So is my "fault" for not being able to download this just being in America and the song not getting the licensing here?

I would have thought that somehow, the online revolution has made the economy more "global" and taking down more barriers. But with this argument, it's like the labels are chopping their nose to spite their face figuring that they wouldn't have made much money with people wanting to get stuff on each side of "the pond".

Something has to be further done with that. Please tell me how.

 

[willcalder]

Good points made here.

With iPartyRadio, an internet station, we highly encourage LEGAL digital downloads, especially from iTunes and Beatport since iPartyRadio is in their affiliate programs. We are constantly referring people whom email us asking where they can purchase the song _______ to these sources. We do receive a lot of complaint emails that people are 'restricted' from getting their songs and elude that they found it one way or another.

We live in an instant gratification society now with the internet, people do not have the patience to wait for something they want now. These people were willing to purchase these songs legally, but when it became too difficult to legally make it happen, they choose the less ethical option with the mindset that Tony just described.

Don't get me wrong, I understand both sides of the fence on this issue, but I feel this has been getting worse over the last year or so. People have been complaining about this and are frustrated. I agree, this isn't helping things and something has to be done to get more proactive with releases.

 

[TonySantiago]

The only answer I could think of, to download legally, is to get in touch with someone in the UK and set up a UK account (vice versa for those in the UK that want a US account) and then you could access tunes that way.

Dumb question number 2 on the subject.....Are the iPods in themselves regionally set? Whereas I could do these downloads but they still won't go into my iPod because there is a regional setting that won't accept files, due to DRM issues, outside of the US/Canada?

 

[JohnParker]

Hey John!

For the record, the following statements I make are being said more in the case of wanting to know answers and with a sense of "frustration" and NOT geared towards any label, artists etc. You made a great point John and I just want to dive deeper into it.

As always, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

Let me make a case in point. I had wanted to download Booty Luv's "Some Kinda Rush". I went to iTunes. It wasn't available in the US BUT was available in the UK store, but I couldn't download it. It WASN'T available on Beatport. I am sure it is on the P2Ps but being that I want to SUPPORT the music, I won't go that route. So is my "fault" for not being able to download this just being in America and the song not getting the licensing here?

It's not really anyone's "fault". It's just a fact of the way the music business, again mainly dance music, operates. With multiple companies in multiple countries all involved, it's near impossible to get an international release date to work. So what happens is that the label that owns the master puts the record out in their country and shops it to other labels in other territories. Some will license it right away, others wait to see if the record becomes something or you can have a situation like the one that's going on with a song currently getting some major dance radio airplay and the label that owns it hasn't made a deal yet even though their window of opportunity seems to be closing fast. You can never tell.

One of the things that cause this, that we've never really had before, is the ability of internet radio to reach beyond any territorial borders. So the audience that they need to satisfy is international and not just American. That in turn forces them to play music much faster than your local FM and creates a bit of a retail problem. They are doing what they need to do to keep their listeners happy and now the record business needs to find a way to get to market quicker or get stuck with a devalued product. But as we all know, the record business tends to think it knows it all and can move at the pace that it chooses.

I would have thought that somehow, the online revolution has made the economy more "global" and taking down more barriers. But with this argument, it's like the labels are chopping their nose to spite their face figuring that they wouldn't have made much money with people wanting to get stuff on each side of "the pond".

Something has to be further done with that. Please tell me how.

I think what your going to start seeing is more cases of originating labels attempting to break dance records through the dance stations or club play and then just putting it onto iTunes themselves. That will be a short term fix for them that may or may not work out financially but they will never be able to break a pop hit that way. And then again, maybe they don't want to. But it would be a band aid sollution to people hearing something on the radio and then being able to buy it. The problem with that lies in the fact that if they wanted to license the record after it's already for sale they certainly won't get the same terms being that sales have already been made which takes away the earnings a song can bring to the licensee.

jp

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I agree with that last statement JP, but, arent the labels screwing themselves anyway by putting off on signing a hot track. People are gonna download it one way or the other anyway. In fact, with dance music, which has much more dedicated and supportive fans, People are willing to pay more for a dance dL than they are for a top rap song that gets a million spins on the radio, and the whole album can be easily found on P2P.... I think its good that the Dance Fans are more dedicated and a little older than the POP/Hip Hop fans, because if not for the loyalty of fans wanting to support the format Dance would be in really big trouble if people did as many Illegal Downloads as people do for mainstream music.

 

[lalumia]

Dance would be in really big trouble if people did as many Illegal Downloads as people do for mainstream music.

hate to tell ya but dance IS in really big trouble, has been for a while;
there aren't as many illegal downloads for dance as there are for mainstream music because people don't want what dance currently has to offer, no other reason...

 

[TonySantiago]

there aren't as many illegal downloads for dance as there are for mainstream music because people don't want what dance currently has to offer, no other reason...

I think if there was more exposure, Jim, people would know and perhaps download in that sense. To add...for those of us that DO want a dance track but can't buy it legally, doing an illegal download is a "last resort"...especially for those of us that DO want to pay and DO want to support the music.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I agree with Tony on this issue. I think he hit the nail on the head.

 

[whatrusaying]

Hey Guys lots of negative here. JP good points, now some solutions. Have you guys heard of traxsource.com? there are no territory restrictions as far as I know there what about www.juno.co.uk, or stompy.com or block your ip and use paypal ? Man you guys really want it dig a little deeper. Sure it is not a perfect world.

 

[JohnParker]

I agree with that last statement JP, but, arent the labels screwing themselves anyway by putting off on signing a hot track. People are gonna download it one way or the other anyway. In fact, with dance music, which has much more dedicated and supportive fans, People are willing to pay more for a dance dL than they are for a top rap song that gets a million spins on the radio, and the whole album can be easily found on P2P.... I think its good that the Dance Fans are more dedicated and a little older than the POP/Hip Hop fans, because if not for the loyalty of fans wanting to support the format Dance would be in really big trouble if people did as many Illegal Downloads as people do for mainstream music.

Which label? Using the Ida Corr track as an example, almost every American label did try to sign it. The master owners (MOS UK) decided they weren't interested. There are reasons for this but that's another story that will surface soon if the rumors are true. So is it fair to say that labels like Robbins and Ultra are at fault? I think not. But with radio play in the country and no music available for sale, both the label (MOS) and the consumer suffer.

As for people are willing to pay more for a download that's absolutely untrue. The only case where that is true is for a consumer that wants 320k/wav files, then they are willing to pay more. But if your offering the same quality and ask someone to pay $.99 or $1.39 they will always pay the $.99.

Illegal downloads pretty much correspond with the amount of exposure a track gets. The biggest illegally downloaded tracks last week were all Rap, R&B and Pop tracks receiving major radio airplay and chart success according to BigChampaigne.com

jp

 

[whatrusaying]

Well said JP

 

[JohnParker]

Have you guys heard of traxsource.com? there are no territory restrictions as far as I know there what about www.juno.co.uk, or stompy.com or block your ip and use paypal ? Man you guys really want it dig a little deeper. Sure it is not a perfect world.

Anyone selling downloads of music has to abide by the territory restrictions or they are operating an illegal business. So sure there will be ways around any system but I believe the focus of the discussion is on legal options of purchasing music.

That said, there are sometimes lapses by legit companies selling downloads because an aggregator forgets to notify them about the restrictions. As soon as a label finds out about those leaks the legit business takes down the availibility immediately and credits the royalty to the correct company.

jp

 

[whatrusaying]

JP anyone submitting music to traxsource knows that it is open that way. I was suggesting that in the previous comments people dig a little deeper to actually make a purchase. And really we are speaking mainly of DJ's. Though sales there are helpful they even in combination with the other smaller site's don't compare to iTunes once the track is hot. But much like the days of old where you had to start somewhere like Vinalmania or stores like that, people dropped off records from the trunk of their car.

 

[JohnParker]

Agreed. iTunes represents over 95% of our digital sales. It's by far the big winner.

Another good thing is that there are no longer all those returns of warped vinyl that used to sit in those trunks on a summers day.

jp

 

[whatrusaying]

Come on man I know there is at least 10,000 of those in your basement .

 

[Mid West Clubber]

LOL... I remember back in 91 warping my 12 inch copy of CE CE PENISTON FINALLY, because I stored it too close to the Radiator... I didnt know heat warped vinyl at my age at the time, I soon found out and never warped another. I did accidentally purchase a warped 45 of Shannon-Let The Music play around 1989 or so from a used record store.