• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Being that The Zone is a Free FM station...

F

feeball

Guest
and coupled with the fact that CBS Radio is slowly starting to eliminate Free FM from their business operations, how much longer will Pittsburgh be hearing the all-talk format? And no certain individuals who find it necessary to be pretentious [EDIT] and comment everytime I post something need not reply. You know who you are so save yourself any further keystrokes and repeated reportings to the moderators before you type anything. If you have a smart a** remark to make or an attack I will not hesitate.


[EDIT-profanity]
 
It's too new to mess with yet, and they have a big investment in Paulsen (unless he decided to work cheap). He's there at least in part because this is the show he wanted to do and CBS was willing to give it a home.

Miller is a national project, and I think they view Pittsburgh as an important market to the show's early success. Despite the fact that K-Rock is returning in NY, I don't see them thinking that going after DVE would be a good move again.

By the same token, I still think there's a hole in the market for smooth jazz, but that format's dying and being pushed to HD2.
 
I think on a national level, CBS Radio is really looking forward to chopping up all of the full time talk stuff and either placing some shows on AM Radio like they did in San Francisco, or eliminating the concept entirely.

I can still see a few examples and a few scenarios where Paulsen could still work out on that frequency. Pair him up with Steigerwald for the sports information in the morning and bring aboard Dameshek to do comedy writing for the show (which is Dameshek's strong suit) and place the show in the mornings. Then, like WXRK in Cleveland, move O&A to afternoons. Fill in the rest of the time with music.

They can say all they want that they want to compete with WDVE, but that is the goal of every station in the market right now. I'm thinking maybe compete with the X, WAMO, and KISS FM first, then once they have established a lead in that department, go after the big fish.
 
I agree with parttimer, give it some time. If the ratings are poor, CBS Radio will try to shuffle personalities around to boost up the ratings before flipping to who knows what else. This is what they did with K Rock. I hate to say it but I think within five years "The Zone" will be gone. I don't know, what do all of you think would be a good format idea for 93.7? I thought that perhaps a KDKA "FM" would be a good idea since KDKA is owned by CBS Radio. You could gear KDKA FM to a younger audience and in a sense go directly against WPGB but have a more local voice than WPGB. But then again this could be a disaster since this city doesn't have a young population who likes news / talk radio and people (well normal people unlike myself) are probably sick of talk radio. Nevertheless, CBS Radio needs a better game plan with their Pittsburgh stations not doing as well as they could be. But what do all of you think might work? Country,Classical, B94 AGAIN???

How about a Jack Format like station that could be a rival to Bob FM? They could call it "Mike FM" and on commercials they can say things like "Mike beat up Bob in high school" or a station featuring us where we just talk about radio in Pittsburgh :p
 
New York has already dropped the free fm talk moniker and is heading back to rock format this weekend. See http://www.923freefm.com or the new site is http://www.923krock.com . Looks like Phillys free fm may be heading in the same direction soon from word of the grapevine..
 
I just don't get that, a station being like "oops' we made a mistake we are going back to the old name and format. I mean isn't there a reason the flipped in the first place? Maybe if The Zone doesnt work out 937 can go back to B94........lol

And Sahisko, perhaps a station with no format, like an independent format having a little bit of everything like a grown up version of WYEP. Then again that may just crazy especially if it is owned by CBS Radio.
 
maybe the whole thing is a piece of crap...do you know anybody who listen's to the zone?...i can't think of anybody who ever knows its there!
 
garnet said:
maybe the whole thing is a piece of crap...do you know anybody who listen's to the zone?...i can't think of anybody who ever knows its there!

Calling The Zone a piece of crap is committing a major disservice to crap everywhere. Crap serves a purpose in everybody's everyday life. Everybody has to crap and crap provides nutrients for some bottom feeding organisms. Ask yourselves this: What purpose does The Zone serve in everybody's everyday life? All I am able to come up with is that it provides two local has beens a paycheck. What did I just commit blasphemy? Yes I called Paulsen and McIntire both has beens. Both have outlived their usefulness in the market and now it is about time to saddle up and move on to other pastures. As evidenced by the fact that KDKA went up without McIntire and Paulsen did this kind of thing once to no fanfare, they're both finished as broadcasters in Pittsburgh. As for The Zone, if that's all they got they might as well start simulcasting Y108 with the exception of bringing in Kidd Chris from 3-7. Don't take the last part seriously.
 
I think The Zone might just be the KDKA FM you speak of, Sah. I know that's not the call letters and they call themselves "Guy Radio," but it clearly is geared to a younger demographic and on a frequency that will reach more youth.

And I think youth WILL listen to talk radio. I know I have found lots of 20 and 30 somethings who have appriciated 104.7- simply because they have high quality- high energy shows and a different political viewpoint challenging the union norms of their parents.

Similarly, sports talk. Okay, okay, I was surprised when I saw WEAE's average age of a listener was 45, but you can't tell me there aren't plenty of teenage boys that listen to Mark Madden for the same reason they'd listen to Howard Stern.

WEAE even tried to market their station to the Stern listener when Howard left for satellite.

Youth can be served on talk radio. I'm convinced of it.
 
And I think youth WILL listen to talk radio.

Saying that youth will or won't listen to talk radio is like saying people will or won't listen to music radio. Just as music format stations only succeed if they play the right music, and fail if they play the wrong music, talk stations will live or die by the content of their talk. Politics, sports, or lifestyle stuff -- it's all good. Or bad. Depending on how well it's done. Local or syndicated -- it's all good. Or bad. Serious or a total goof, you get the idea.

It's all about how well the format is carried out. No format is immune to bad execution. No format is an automatic winner.

From what little I've heard of The Zone, everything except Steigerwald seems to have potential. Will that potential be realized? Maybe so, maybe no. It's too early to tell.
 
I know B94 was supposedly slipping in rating in it's latter days, but let's face it, K-ROCK and The Zone have terrible ratings to what B94 used to have. If B94 were to come back you can bet that the ratings would sky rocket...
 
If B94 were to come back you can bet that the ratings would sky rocket...

That's true! Just like if KQV would go back to Top 40, their ratings would go back to where they were in the 60's. And if WWSW would go back to carrying network shows like The Shadow and The Jack Benny Program, their ratings would go back to where they were in the 30's and 40's.
 
youngabe89 said:
I know B94 was supposedly slipping in rating in it's latter days, but let's face it, K-ROCK and The Zone have terrible ratings to what B94 used to have. If B94 were to come back you can bet that the ratings would sky rocket...

Like so many of the programming experts who would call request lines and say, Your ratings would go WAY up if you played..." (whatever their favorite song was... and could you not talk over it so I can tape it?)
 
Rumor has it Phillys FREE FM WYSP returning back to rock format today or tomorrow.
 
Parttimer said:
Actually I thought I read that YSP is also to be known as "The Zone"....

You are correct! They ran under FREE FM for talk, then Zone still doing talk, now Zone and back to rock.

CBS did the same with http://www.thezone941.com . What I have heard is most FREE's are changing to ZONE monikers with still hosting talk format. If the talk format does not work after a period of time, they switch it back to the original format, usually active or progressive rock, still using the ZONE moniker
 
While I would not see B94 coming back, I could see...
93.7 calling themselves B94 but using Star's format with more of a 90's and now feel (See Q102 Cincinnati, 96-5TIC Hartford, Mix 98-5 Boston) Then this leaves the question of... what to do with 100.7? Smooth Jazz there may be?
 
feeball said:
and coupled with the fact that CBS Radio is slowly starting to eliminate Free FM from their business operations, how much longer will Pittsburgh be hearing the all-talk format? And no certain individuals who find it necessary to be pretentious [EDIT] and comment everytime I post something need not reply. You know who you are so save yourself any further keystrokes and repeated reportings to the moderators before you type anything. If you have a smart a** remark to make or an attack I will not hesitate.
[EDIT-profanity]

Here's how I see it...

We have more AM and FM talkers than we need in this market, and putting another such format on an FM station in Pittsburgh, I just don't see Pittsburgh as having this big of an audience. If you count the two sports stations, we have six AM talk stations in the Pittsburgh Metro area (not the ADI market) ALONE. That's a small pie to divvy up among 8 talk stations.

I have spent some time listening to The Zone, and it sounds to me like they're trying to imitate the DVE morning show and see if they can carry it through the whole broadcast day. Ain't gonna happen. I don't think this market is THAT personality driven.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'd like to say something new like this fly here. But my experience has told me that every smart format (with very few exceptions) they've tried in Pittsburgh since 1990 has fallen on its face. Let's wait for the fall book to come out.
 
Ohio radio man said:
While I would not see B94 coming back, I could see...
93.7 calling themselves B94 but using Star's format with more of a 90's and now feel (See Q102 Cincinnati, 96-5TIC Hartford, Mix 98-5 Boston) Then this leaves the question of... what to do with 100.7? Smooth Jazz there may be?

I really think 104.7 should have stuck with Smooth Jazz a little while longer and gave it some time to grow. Given the conservatism of this market, I think that while it would have not been a huge cash cow, it could have succeeded in its own right. It would have to be automated outside of the morning show. In the first book that came out for the old WEZE-FM in 1990, they were in the top 10, mainly because they were riding the crest of the wave that Wish left when it changed to Soft AC.

I would have also flushed the WJJJ call letters and recaptured the WYDD calls. They could have gone right back to their beginnings in that very format and flushed every format failure they had since 1967 and maybe eventually become an institution again over time...though slightly different than before.

Beautiful music stations and others of its ilk (Smooth Jazz included) were borne out of necessity in the 1960's when the FCC adopted the non-duplication rules for combo AM/FM license holders, requiring them to offer non-duplicated programming for half of the broadcast day. It was never really intended to be a money maker. You couldn't sell it because a) few people had FM radios in their homes, let alone their cars, b) and its critics considered it 'background music' where nobody would pay any attention to the commercials.

104.7 did have the right idea in that their playlist wasn't just relegated to instrumental tracks. There were some vocals by artists like George Benson, Anita Baker, and others that fit the sound. The fact that they had a heavy number of vocals combined with the instrumentals, much more than what easy listening stations offered, showed that it was NOT a background music station. That form of easy listening music had run its course, with the last one (of which I'm aware...it was WWMD in Hagerstown, MD for those of you keeping scorecards) finally flipping to country in 2001.
 
I wonder why people who can grasp the subtle nuances and difference between similar music formats like "lite rock" as compared to "soft rock" are so quick to lump all spoken word formats together as if there was no difference between them at all.

I just watched a television program about the shifts in the music industry, and how recording company labels have lost importance and how the public's taste in music has changed. I'm reminded that once upon a time, radio wasn't just 24/7 jukeboxes because the public didn't want to hear music 24/7. I recall how the Baby Boomer generation made such a big deal out of music, making it a far more important part of our lives than it was to our parents' generation.

Maybe the era of the public wanting nothing but music, music, and more music on the radio is simply coming to an end. Maybe after several decades of most radio stations being little more than a free promotional service for the music recording industry, there is a major change coming in the radio industry. I don't think anyone here is old enough to remember first hand the transition from network radio with scripted comedies and dramas to all local juke box radio. But I imagine it must have been hard for the old-timers who spent their entire radio careers believing that shows like Jack Benny or The Bickersons or The Shadow would be the main staple of radio forever to face the rise of Top 40 music radio.

The age of scripted comedies and dramas on radio ended when television came along and proved it could do story-based entertainment better than radio could. So radio did what television couldn't, and became a glorified juke box. And while some in radio cling to the myth that what really defines their station is their news and public affairs programming, the fact is that when 90% of a station's airtime that isn't devoted to commercials is playing some format of recorded music, then that recorded music is what the station is really all about.

If television killed story-based entertainment on the radio and music format radio filled that void, why is it so hard to believe that iPods and satellite radio and all the other new technologies that are superior at providing musical entertainment to the masses will cause radio to make another major shift to yet another niche?

There were always "Make Believe Ballroom" type shows on the radio, even when the story-based programs dominated the airwaves. DJ shows weren't anything new when television replaced radio as the primary mass entertainment medium. Talk format shows existed on radio for a long, long time. But, with the competition from new technologies for the music fan's attention, it's time for all talk formats to enjoy the same kind of growth that music formats enjoyed in the 1950's.

When music format broadcasting took over from story-based entertainment, not every music format succeeded. And of those who didn't like seeing the stations they worked for turned into juke boxes complained that all those "jungle music" songs sounded alike. They predicted that rock and roll was a fad and would go away. They said no one would want to hear nothing but songs all day and all night. They were wrong.

Now, people are saying that there's not enough market for talk radio. Not enough people want to hear talk. There's not enough difference between one kind of talk and another kind of talk, even though the difference between "lite rock" and "soft rock" is as plain (to them) as the nose on their face.

The new talk formats might not succeed as well with Arbitron ratings as music format radio does, but then Arbitron ratings could well become irrelevant. Arbitrons are based on the premise that the only way to test effectiveness of radio is how many ears are out there when your commercial is aired. Anyone who works in small market local radio knows that one can sell airtime based on other factors and can be quite successful. Listen to how many talk show commercials call for the listener to click a hidden button on the sponsor's website to type in "Rush" or "Glenn". Or how many talk show commercials give a different website address on different shows, like product123.com on one show and product456.com on another. Or who give different 800 numbers on different shows. Those are simple but effective ways for a sponsor to track not only how many people are in the room when their spot airs, but who actually hear the spot and respond to it.

If you had a product to sell, would you rather your message was vaguely heard by 1,000 people as part of the background noise on a music format station or listened to intently by 100 people who were paying attention to a talk show broadcast?

it sounds to me like they're trying to imitate the DVE morning show and see if they can carry it through the whole broadcast day.

As someone who listens to the 'DVE Morning Show most mornings from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM, the 'DVE Morning Show has turned from a music show with some talk and comedy bits into a talk show with a little music. Whether or not The Zone will succeed at trying to do the same schtick for the rest of the day is not based on whether or not the market is "personality driven". It will succeed or fail based on whether or not Dennis Miller, John McIntyre, and Scott Paulsen are the right personalities for the job. Steigerwald won't last, he's too grumpy. But even if Stiegerwald fails, it won't be because there's no market for a sports talk show in the morning, it will be because Steigerwald simply isn't the right sports talk guy for the morning.

Welcome to the new millenium.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom