BERNIE, ADMIT YOUR GUILT. SAVAGE, DROP YOUR CHARGES.

[ABQTom]

Could someone PLEASE explain WHY talk show hosts are asking for money from their listeners for their own legal problems? Bernie Ward, Savage, both asking for monies for their legal issues. This is unprecedented in the radio industry, and I'm really surprised that it's not getting more attention on the forums.

Could someone explain why Bernie doesn't just admit his guilt, and make a deal w/ the prosecutors to do some community service, and get back on the air? That's Bernie's slogan every night at 12:59:40, when he tells listeners, "Remember, it's easier to ask for forgiveness, than it is for permission."

My in-box is crammed with letters from Mark Crispin Miller on Bernie Ward asking for more and more money. It's getting ridiculous. And, hearing Peter Weissbach crying out for money for his buddy Savage. I'm not on Savage's list, but I'll sign up and see if I get letters of solicitation. Savage needs to drop his hatred of Muslims, and Bernie needs to stop asking for money to defend himself, and just admit he's guilty and do community service. Bernie's faith teaches forgiveness, and it's the Christmas season. Honesty is the best policy, even in radio.

What am I missing here, folks?

 

[Drummerman]

Bernie is damaged goods.. I predict that he will never be allowed back on the air.
Too bad for him. He has sullied the Ward name... He has been disgraced...

 

[Starbucks]

[EDIT] Savage 's case is not just based on him...it's based on your's and mine and everyone's free speech. Then of course I'm sure your just envied by muslims. Then on the other side.....Just have Bernie admit his guilt, so he'll pick up some trash for a few days, and get back on the air. Do you really think that's how it works? Other child molestors are restricted where they can live in California...and that's if they can get out..... and yes, Mr. Cholestrol will just go back on the air and blend in with the public.


[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[newsperson]

It is amazing how words can be changed. The charges against Bernie Ward are for viewing child porn on a webb site and forwarding it to someone, that's all. There are no charges or allegations of child molestation so please do not change the facts in your post.

As far as ending this case, there will not be any opportunity for any movement until the next court appearence which is not scheduled until the later part of January 08.

Until then the news on this case will most likely be quiet.

Newsperson

 

[DavidKaye]

Could someone PLEASE explain WHY talk show hosts are asking for money from their listeners for their own legal problems? Bernie Ward, Savage, both asking for monies for their legal issues. This is unprecedented in the radio industry, and I'm really surprised that it's not getting more attention on the forums.

Why? Because they need the money? Lawyers cost a lot. In both cases there are some legal precedents that can be set, which is important because our whole legal system is based on rulings from prior cases. In the case of Savage it's free speech; in the case of Bernie it's whether intent should figure into a case such as his. After all, most laws allow for intent -- which is why there are "murder", "negligent homicide", and "manslaughter", even though the victim is still dead in each case. Intent is important.

As to being "really surprised", why? Lots of stuff goes on in broadcasting that people don't feel that anxious about.

 

[LKellerIII]

As some of the previous posts attest - allegations that involve child porn or anything involving the sexual exploitaton of children - have become the equivalent to the Salem Witch trials. Nevermind actual guilt or innocence. Not found guilty yet? No problem - if they've been accused, they must be guilty. Burn them at the stake.

Pitiful.

 

[woody1394]

Nevermind actual guilt or innocence. Not found guilty yet? No problem - if they've been accused, they must be guilty.

That, my freinds, is exactly why Bernie will unlikely ever be back on the KGO airwaves. It was predictable, for example, that Imus would resurface. But he simply made comments- not very nice comments, but nothing people couldn't get over in the long term. But kiddie porn is absolutely taboo whether guilty or innocent, and for that reason the Lion of the Left has seen his last days at KGO. I don't wish that on him at all by the way (assuming he is innocent), but I think it is reality.

 

[DavidKaye]

But kiddie porn is absolutely taboo whether guilty or innocent, and for that reason the Lion of the Left has seen his last days at KGO. I don't wish that on him at all by the way (assuming he is innocent), but I think it is reality.

If he beats the rap I don't see why KGO shouldn't and wouldn't put him back on the air. My impression is that KGO mgmt folks are fair-minded. And as for dealing with fallout, KGO has dealt with all kinds of stuff in the past, between irate callers, irate listeners, and the occasional irate advertiser. There's a reason why a security guard has to buzz you in and why there are security cameras everywhere, including in the garage. If found innocent, Bernie will eventually be able to live down the wrath of people...well, maybe not radio junkies, but then they're irrational to begin with...

 

[RBA]

If Bernie admits quilt, he's doing mandatory time. I don't think the prison or KGO will let him broadcast from his prison cell.

 

[ABQTom]

Re: BERNIE AND CITADEL QUESTIONS MERIT EXPLANATION

Mike Woods wrote:

"But kiddie porn is absolutely taboo whether guilty or innocent, and for that reason the Lion of the Left has seen his last days at KGO."

tom:

But for right now, as far as I know Bernie's not jailed, so WHY has Citadel taken him off the air? They can't go on forever with musical chairs of substitute hosts.

And a former caller said above that Bernie had forwarded the porn. What does this mean? Did he forward it to the federal govt? This merits an explanation on the fund web page asking for donations. Most of us have adult porn cookies on my computer, and some get forwarded with outbound emails w/o our knowledge.

This merits an explanation from Phillip Boyce, Brian Jennings, and other Citadel Officials - i.e. did the feds receive the porn, and if not, then why are they going after it.


Citadel has just proven once again that it has incredible, massive power to squelch liberals, just like Entercom does, when they fired Mike Webb on KIRO after an accusation of insurance charge.

Personally I would have no problem re-hiring Ward if I was a PD - Why? Because as a man of exceptional character, Bernie will undoubtedly learn from his mistakes. And, due to the nature of the industry, these types of things happen more frequently than in other professions. Likewise for Mike Webb, sadly, 1090 in Seattle didn't have a chance to hire Webb due to his murder.

 

[ABQTom]

If Bernie admits quilt, he's doing mandatory time. I don't think the prison or KGO will let him broadcast from his prison cell.

What I suggested was to do community service instead of jail time i.e. reading books to the blind like Mike Webb did in Seattle. Given Bernie's presumable lack of a criminal record, his education, his age, his record of community service in the bay area, his investigative journalism, and no history or previous accusations of issues with children, then community service would be appropriate. Jail time would indicate that our judicial system can't differentiate between the intent of the crime given the factors that I listed here (as a caller said above). In this particular case, Bernie states that his intent was for research purposes.

 

[ABQTom]

Re: BERNIE FUNDRAISING DRIVE

As some of the previous posts attest - allegations that involve child porn or anything involving the sexual exploitaton of children - have become the equivalent to the Salem Witch trials. Nevermind actual guilt or innocence. Not found guilty yet? No problem - if they've been accused, they must be guilty. Burn them at the stake.

Pitiful.

Well at least you've presented the BIG picture here.

What you say needs to be EXPLAINED by Mark Crispin Miller over his Email lists! Miller is too analytical so he misses the big picture a lot.

So I will retract my comment stating that Bernie should stop asking for money - I HOPE THE FUNDRAISING WORKS!

Let's help Bernie get into some community service, and get back on KGO!!!

 

[DavidKaye]

Re: BERNIE AND CITADEL QUESTIONS MERIT EXPLANATION

Citadel has just proven once again that it has incredible, massive power to squelch liberals

That's a load of crap, don't you think? If Citadel is "squelching liberals" why are Ray Taliaferro and Christine Craft still on KGO? It's not as if KGO is out of guest hosts. They have plenty in their stable.

 

[ABQTom]

Re: HEY PHIL! WHY DID YOU SUSPEND BERNIE WHEN HE HASN'T BEEN TO COURT?!

Citadel has just proven once again that it has incredible, massive power to squelch liberals

That's a load of crap, don't you think? If Citadel is "squelching liberals" why are Ray Taliaferro and Christine Craft still on KGO? It's not as if KGO is out of guest hosts. They have plenty in their stable.

THEN WHY IS BERNIE WARD OFF THE AIR, MR. KAYE? IT IS DUE TO SENIOR CITADEL OFFICIALS IN NYC. Phil Boyce is reading this, HEY PHIL - tell us, did YOU order the suspension?

GIVE Bernie a BREAK! Bernie hasn't gone to court yet. He SHOULD STILL be on the air. I guarantee you that KGO ratings will GO DOWN from 7p-MID with rotating Substitute Hosts. Karel and Christine Craft are exceptional, but will not be able to pull the numbers as Bernie. I would guess that Karel and Craft are better suited for middays, afternoons, and early evenings. KKGN could ad Peter B. Collins on delay at 10pm, and that would give KGO a run for their money (in the local area covered by 960kHz.)

 

[cm454]

It is amazing how words can be changed. The charges against Bernie Ward are for viewing child porn on a webb site and forwarding it to someone, that's all.

Are you serious? You cannot possibly be a REAL newsperson. The charges you so easily dismiss are quite serious.

The difference between viewing and sending, vs. actual molestation is the difference between 5 years in jail and 20. While what Ward is accused of will not get him 20, it may very assuredly get him 2-5. Sadly, this type material is the scurge of the internet, to say the least, so don't expect leniency, especially in such a high profile case.

GIVE Bernie a BREAK! Bernie hasn't gone to court yet. He SHOULD STILL be on the air.

RARELY do you see defendants in these type cases just walk free. Federal law enforcement has become very adept at making sure the proper predicates have been established before they lower the boom.

This does not bode well for Mr. Ward.

 

[ABQTom]

"The difference between viewing and sending, vs. actual molestation is the difference between 5 years in jail and 20. While what Ward is accused of will not get him 20, it may very assuredly get him 2-5. Sadly, this type material is the scurge of the internet, to say the least, so don't expect leniency, especially in such a high profile case."

All of the above are illegal and what Bernie did was illegal. THE POINT - that I am TRYING to make - is that the Feds violated the 4th amendment by spying on Bernie's computers. They waited until a critical year - 2007-2008- the year of the election that will ... as Thom Harmtann has been discussing ... determine what road we go down as a country - to the wrath of the corporations, or, back to a Democracy for and by the people.

This VIOLATION of the 4th Amendment by the Feds supersedes the presence or absence of whether a crime was even committed in the first place. It appears that the feds were trying to squelch his liberal views from reaching a potential of at least 50 million listeners 12+ on the KGO skywave. Since we now have a government - media collaboration (i.e. Dick Cheney appears on Rush and other conservative shows), then this may have been a pact with the ultra-conservative right wingers at Citadel, who just bought ABC/KGO.

Please read the 4th amendment - google it and then comment here.

 

[DavidKaye]

Re: HEY PHIL! WHY DID YOU SUSPEND BERNIE WHEN HE HASN'T BEEN TO COURT?!

THEN WHY IS BERNIE WARD OFF THE AIR, MR. KAYE? IT IS DUE TO SENIOR CITADEL OFFICIALS IN NYC. Phil Boyce is reading this, HEY PHIL - tell us, did YOU order the suspension?

You have no proof that Citadel management is tampering with one of the most successful radio stations in history. I'm sure the decision was made at KGO, not at Citadel.

I can understand KGO's decision to suspend Bernie until the trial because of the need to protect the station from irate listeners and irate advertisers should they continue to keep him on while these charges are hanging over him. I don't happen to agree with KGO's decision, but I respect it.

Given the situation, I think KGO's current position in keeping Bernie on the roster is admirable because most major broadcasters (including KGO I'm told) have employment contract clauses allowing them to get rid of employees who make the station look bad. This has nothing to do with being guilty or innocent, but simply allowing the station to be seen in a bad light. This would certainly apply in Bernie's case, where he has admitted that he received and sent a photo or two.

It actually stands to reason to have such a "morals clause" because all a station has to sell is its reputation. An advertiser wants to be associated with a squeaky-clean station because to be associated with a slimy operation makes the advertiser look bad, too. How many of us respect the advertisers appearing in the National Enquirer or the Star ? Think about it.

And once again, KGO has plenty of liberals on the air. And in fact, they brought in Christine Craft rather than, say, Bill Wattenburg, to do fill-in hosting.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Re: HEY PHIL! WHY DID YOU SUSPEND BERNIE WHEN HE HASN'T BEEN TO COURT?!

THEN WHY IS BERNIE WARD OFF THE AIR, MR. KAYE? IT IS DUE TO SENIOR CITADEL OFFICIALS IN NYC. Phil Boyce is reading this, HEY PHIL - tell us, did YOU order the suspension?

Given the seriousness of the charge all of us would be suspended from our jobs if we had been charged. Has this really turned into another anti-Citadel/pb and now Bush thread?

If it was one of your employees, no matter what you do, would you have him dealing with the public at this time?

Also, you think they waited for an election year to take down a host that no one outside of California knew about for political gain?

Conspiracy! Operatives in DC and NYC are running this, they made him view and dorward child porn! Panic! Watch out for those black helicopters!

It is amazing how words can be changed. The charges against Bernie Ward are for viewing child porn on a webb site and forwarding it to someone, that's all.

Freaking unbelievable.

 

[LKellerIII]

"Given the seriousness of the charge all of us would be suspended from our jobs if we had been charged. Has this really turned into another anti-Citadel/pb and now Bush thread?"

I agree - and I'm a certified and registered Bush basher. But the idea that anybody in the Bush Administration spends any time worried about what a local talk host in San Francisco is preaching to his choir - is laughable.

Nixon might have been paranoid enough, but not Bush. Though on balance, compared to Bush - I'd take Nixon and his paranoia back in a heartbeat.

I understand why Citadel wants Ward off the air, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with politics. Citadel is a business, and I'm sure they have no intention of turning KGO into yet another low rated right-wing talk station.

The 2 things that make KGO special are the balance of views on the station (liberal-moderate-conservative), and the fact that hosts are local. Citadel already has KSFO, and I'm sure they don't want a KNEW.

 

[newsperson]

cm454

Newsperson replies:

The point I was making is that some of the other posters were adding charges against Bernie Ward that do not exist. Yes I am a real newsperson and I fully understand why Bernie is off the air. Furhtermore I do not expect that any deal will be made with the prosecuters becasue any admission of guilt for this charge may keep him from returning (on-air).

My news analysis is that any fast resloution of this would not work in Bernie Wards favor and for his long-term benefit he must see it through the end. This will keep him off the air longer except it is the only way he can return to KGO as he was.

As far as Citadel is concerned I do not beleive that they were involved in the decesion (to keep Bernie off-air). I beleive the final interim decesion was made by the President of KGO, Mr. Mickey Luckoff.

I look forward to your comments whether you agree or dissagree.

Newsperson