BERNIE WARD SHOULD RAISE FUNDS - TO FIGHT GOVT. OVER SEIZING HIS COMPUTERS

[ABQTom]

Reading more about this it is clear that the Feds VIOLATED the 4th Amendment - by seizing the computers of Bernie Ward and his family.

I don't care about whether it was child or adult porn anymore and I don't care about the controversial soliciting funds issue anymore. Bernie should hold a fund raiser, and fight the feds over the violation of the 4th Amendment.

This was a clear violation of the Constitutional Rights of the Bernie Ward family.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[cm454]

Whether you realize or not, Ward is finished.

People are sent to prison for years for simple possession of the material he is accused of not only having, but trading.

Considering the obvious severity of the crime, debatable or not, the threshhold at which you exceed empoyablility in the media is quite low.

I suppose he could do one of these infamous *internet* talk shows, but, as is the case with the rest of them, nobody really listens.

You can waste your breath with all these *violation of the constitution* arguments, but the public at large, as well as prospective employers, really don't care.

 

[ABQTom]

Re: BERNIE WARD IS NOT FINISHED. US GOVT VIOLATED 4th AMENDMENT

Mr. Ward is not finished.

Well...I'm the new generation in this business, <35 yrs old. Just got into talk radio, on the business side, behind the scenes. In 10 years, I could be in your shoes.

You'll note how my posts on Bernie go in circles all over the place, taking contrary views from post to post, based on my own thoughts, and what others here had to say.

There are others here, ages 18-35, reading and posting on Bernie here, I guarantee it.

That's because us youngsters are willing to explore different points of view regarding morals and ethics. We don't follow the status quo of aging PD's and OM's with prostate problems in their 50's. In this case, we see a violation of the 4th amendment, part of the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution, the highest law of the land.

In this case, the 4th amendment was clearly violated. No questions asked. That fact alone superseeds whatever it was that Bernie was doing that he shouldn't have been.

I would have no problem re-hiring Bernie for the reasons stated in previous posts. If I am ever in that position he would be at the top of my list.

If you want to talk about some REAL issues in Radio Ethics, it is NOT what Ward did for writing his book. It is these massive firings as Clear Channel right now, and the unethical actions of companies like Citadel spreading Michael Savage on their Clear Channel 50kW stations at night. Or, talk about the Fairness Doctrine and Media Consolidation. Or, Air America cancelling 75 percent of their original lineup over 3 years, certainly not the "liberal" thing to do when you claim to be a self-righteous "liberal" radio network.

You wrote ....

Whether you realize or not, Ward is finished.

(NO HE's NOT!)

People are sent to prison for years for simple possession of the material he is accused of not only having, but trading.

Considering the obvious severity of the crime, debatable or not, the threshhold at which you exceed empoyablility in the media is quite low.

I suppose he could do one of these infamous *internet* talk shows, but, as is the case with the rest of them, nobody really listens.

You can waste your breath with all these *violation of the constitution* arguments, but the public at large, as well as prospective employers, really don't care.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

If there is some basis for voiding the search, Bernie's lawyers will move to get it thrown out. You don't know all the facts in the case nor all the facts surrounding the search. The constitution is what nine guys in their 50s, 60s and 70s say it is. In any case, you're not the judge here. I doubt you're even a lawyer. And what they told in you in middle school civics class is not necessarily so.

PS: If you make it to your 50s, I hope your prostate still be fine. That kind of cheap crack was very uncalled for and sometimes come back to haunt you.

 

[cm454]

Re: BERNIE WARD IS NOT FINISHED. US GOVT VIOLATED 4th AMENDMENT

Mr. Ward is not finished.

Well...I'm the new generation in this business, <35 yrs old. Just got into talk radio, on the business side, behind the scenes. In 10 years, I could be in your shoes.

You'll note how my posts on Bernie go in circles all over the place, taking contrary views from post to post, based on my own thoughts, and what others here had to say.

There are others here, ages 18-35, reading and posting on Bernie here, I guarantee it.

That's because us youngsters are willing to explore different points of view regarding morals and ethics. We don't follow the status quo of aging PD's and OM's with prostate problems in their 50's. In this case, we see a violation of the 4th amendment, part of the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution, the highest law of the land.

In this case, the 4th amendment was clearly violated. No questions asked. That fact alone superseeds whatever it was that Bernie was doing that he shouldn't have been.

I would have no problem re-hiring Bernie for the reasons stated in previous posts. If I am ever in that position he would be at the top of my list.

If you want to talk about some REAL issues in Radio Ethics, it is NOT what Ward did for writing his book. It is these massive firings as Clear Channel right now, and the unethical actions of companies like Citadel spreading Michael Savage on their Clear Channel 50kW stations at night. Or, talk about the Fairness Doctrine and Media Consolidation. Or, Air America cancelling 75 percent of their original lineup over 3 years, certainly not the "liberal" thing to do when you claim to be a self-righteous "liberal" radio network.

You are very naive.

First of all, at 35 you're hardly the *new* generation of anything. I'm about your age and have been at this significantly longer apparently.

Second, this is not a civics class at Berkley, it's the real world where people do not forget. Make all the erudite constitutional arguments you want. Where the public relations of a major talk outlet are concerned, Ward is finished, no matter what happens in court.

You've got a lot to learn.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Re: BERNIE WARD IS NOT FINISHED. US GOVT VIOLATED 4th AMENDMENT

You are very naive.

First of all, at 35 you're hardly the *new* generation of anything. I'm about your age and have been at this significantly longer apparently.

Second, this is not a civics class at Berkley, it's the real world where people do not forget. Make all the erudite constitutional arguments you want. Where the public relations of a major talk outlet are concerned, Ward is finished, no matter what happens in court.

You've got a lot to learn.

Agreed. He might be finished at KGO (whatever happens in court) but assuming he stays out of jail, somebody will pick him up. Maybe not right away. But a lot of people in this business are suckers for name recognition and he has that.

 

[cm454]

Re: BERNIE WARD IS NOT FINISHED. US GOVT VIOLATED 4th AMENDMENT

There are a few people here who are severely underestimating the significance of THESE type charges. This is NOT drunk driving or shoplifting or embezzlement. This is something that absolutely DISGUSTS people.

Whether reasonable or not, a mere accusation of this type behavior is not a classic "any press is good press" situation, not a name-making event that would result in an even better job (Imus), but instead it's a scarlet letter in an already skittish corporate radio environment. And having charges thrown out on a technicality does NOTHING to help the situation as far as the public's perception of guilt or innocence. There has to be forgivability potential by the public. DO NOT expect that in a case like this.

I'm reading posts about constitution this, 4th ammendment that. You've got to be kidding me.

You know not the current nature of the business you are in.

 

[ABQTom]

Well - folks - guess what. I have the distinguished NYU journalism ethics Prof. MARK CRISPIN MILLER to back me up on this one, with his email solicitations to send money to the Bernie Ward Legal Defense Fund.

The charges involve the government paying attention to what someone has on their computer. My goodness, would YOU want the govt. seizing YOUR computers?

You are terribly uninformed as to the Founder's original purpose of the 4th Amendment. Please google it, and READ it, and THINK about it.

It's peculiar that with Mark Crispin Miller is on board with the lawsuit, that given his credentials, that you are in disagreement.

Clearly, this is a partisan scandal to squelch Mr. Ward and his liberal views.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Well - folks - guess what. I have the distinguished NYU journalism ethics Prof. MARK CRISPIN MILLER to back me up on this one, with his email solicitations to send money to the Bernie Ward Legal Defense Fund.

The charges involve the government paying attention to what someone has on their computer. My goodness, would YOU want the govt. seizing YOUR computers?

You are terribly uninformed as to the Founder's original purpose of the 4th Amendment. Please google it, and READ it, and THINK about it.

It's peculiar that with Mark Crispin Miller is on board with the lawsuit, that given his credentials, that you are in disagreement.

Clearly, this is a partisan scandal to squelch Mr. Ward and his liberal views.

Apples and Oranges, Tom

Apples = Will he be convicted or not? If convicted, will he do time?

Oranges = If not convicted, does he still have a future in radio?

 

[cm454]

All the professors in the world will not change public opinion when these kinds of charges are are at hand.

You are overthinking this:

It is not an argument of legal technicality, it is about whether or not Bernie Ward has a future on the radio.

Let's say this lawyer takes this all the way to the Supreme Court and WINS!

Ward will still be branded---and that's ALL a station will care about, not legal mumbo jumbo.

 

[ABQTom]

All the professors in the world will not change public opinion when these kinds of charges are are at hand.

You are overthinking this:

It is not an argument of legal technicality, it is about whether or not Bernie Ward has a future on the radio.

Let's say this lawyer takes this all the way to the Supreme Court and WINS!

Ward will still be branded---and that's ALL a station will care about, not legal mumbo jumbo.

Whether or not he wins, the station SHOULD care about the US Constitution and Amendment 4. The idiot Managers at Citadel have no business suspending Ward when he hasn't even had a chance to defend himself. Same thing with Mike Webb in Seattle, he gets fired by Entercom over a car insurance payment issue (NONE of Entercom's business, a HUGE embarrassment to Entercom/KIRO) w/o a chance to defend himself.

 

[ABQTom]

J: Apples and Oranges, Tom

J: Apples = Will he be convicted or not? If convicted, will he do time?

T: Again if he is convicted, his lawyers can sue the govt. for violating the 4th amendment. And, the time should be community service, given Bernie's lack of a criminal record and voluntary community service over decades.

J: Oranges = If not convicted, does he still have a future in radio?

T: Of Course he'll get back on the air, because you conservative, domineering radio guys 55+ won't be in charge anymore! Your liberal, more intelligent, more forgiving, kids < 35 will be in charge! HA HA HA

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

J: Apples and Oranges, Tom

J: Apples = Will he be convicted or not? If convicted, will he do time?

T: Again if he is convicted, his lawyers can sue the govt. for violating the 4th amendment. And, the time should be community service, given Bernie's lack of a criminal record and voluntary community service over decades.

J: Oranges = If not convicted, does he still have a future in radio?

T: Of Course he'll get back on the air, because you conservative, domineering radio guys 55+ won't be in charge anymore! Your liberal, more intelligent, more forgiving, kids < 35 will be in charge! HA HA HA

Tom, Tom, Tom ...

T1: They probably can't sue the government. Most likely the best they can do is to get the results of the search excluded. I say again, you really should inform yourself a bit more about the law. Also keep in mind who pays when somebody sues the government. Hint: Not the cops who conducted an illegal search.

T2: Wow! We baby boomers used to say sh__ like that. Only we weren't going to let people over 30 be in charge. And we weren't sitting around posting on message boards and writing blogs. We were in the street where the cops could see us. Do you know what tear gas is like? Probably not. And if you are going to call me a conservative, smile. By the way, Bernie is 57. You must think he is going away for a long time. Not to worry, Guys over 55 will always be in charge. People under 35 will get their chance in another 20 years. Of course, radio won't be around any more. Please remember this when someone young enough to be your grandchild starts giving you sh__. (Aren't you politically correct types supposed to be against ageism?)

 

[DaleGriffin]

ABQTom are you really making the argument that the new young and liberal blood in radio (not that I know what this means) will look the other way and bring a guy in that downloaded and transferred kiddy porn? You would? I can't wait to hear that conversation with the person who pays the bills at your station:

Tom: I want to bring in a guy who was busted for kiddy porn
Boss: Are you crazy?
Tom: 4th Amendment!
Boss: Did he do it?
Tom: Doesn't matter, fourth amendment
Boss: No.
(Tom leaves)
Boss to self: time to start looking for a smarter programmer

I will give you a real world example - People who sue their radio employers have a hard time finding work later because people do not want to deal with them. In the world of google these things are more readily available and more easily found.

Imagine slapping this guy on your 50,000 watt Progressive monster Tom programs that gets 20+ shares. Now someone googles the new host and finds "kiddy porn charges" and starts talking to advertisers. How long does this guy last on that station and how long do you last for bringing him in?

Whether you agree with his politics or think he is innocent (fact is I don't know-none of us do), you have to admit he is probably done.

 

[ABQTom]

You are missing another very important thing. Bernie only had a couple of images. Bernie has never been accused of molesting children. That's not consistent with your typical child porn / child molester with thousands of images on their computer and VCR tapes at home.

Based on this, and the other factors I've repeatedly mentioned (i.e. Bernie's lack of a criminal record and his voluntary record of community service), the charges should be thrown out. The 4th amendment was violated, ask any historian or Constitutional Scholar (John Rothmann?). Other liberal talk hosts that I know agree, but they generally don't post here. I do affiliate relations marketing and know lots of PD's. I am not a talk host or PD but in 10-20 years who knows.

The same scenario occurred with Mike Webb / KIRO - who like Bernie got double digit ratings. It appears likely that these media conglomerates are ultra right wing and squelch their most successful liberal hosts.

 

[ABQTom]

"ABQTom are you really making the argument that the new young and liberal blood (I'M AN INDEPENDENT, ACTUALLY! in radio (not that I know what this means) will look the other way and bring a guy in that downloaded and transferred kiddy porn? You would?"

NO I WOULD NOT LOOK THE OTHER WAY.

WHAT BERNIE DID WAS ILLEGAL - IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS SHOULD BE.

However ..... Intent is what matters - it was for writing a book, so the punishment should be LESS. And, consider the context - Bernie doesn't fit the typical profile of a child molester with 10,000's of images on his computer and VCR tapes of children.
There was no probable cause to seize his computer based on someone receiving a forwarded email.
So, it's a clear violation of the 4th Amendment to seize his computers.
Especially those of his family members.

 

[DaleGriffin]

It appears likely that these media conglomerates are ultra right wing and squelch their most successful liberal hosts.

No it appears that two employed, by these media conglomerates, talk show hosts go themselves in legal trouble - (kddy porn & insurance fraud) - and because of that needed to be removed. Ward may have been researching a book, but when he forwarded that image on and someone brought it to the attention of the feds and (if the info here is correct) that should give them reason to look further.

ABQTom,

Your entire premise for this is corporations silencing liberal hosts? They hired these hosts. They paid these hosts. Had none of this happened they still would be on the air. Period. There is a reason they were taken off - legal problems.

 

[ABQTom]

No it appears that two employed, by these media conglomerates, talk show hosts go themselves in legal trouble - (kddy porn & insurance fraud) - and because of that needed to be removed. Ward may have been researching a book, but when he forwarded that image on and someone brought it to the attention of the feds and (if the info here is correct) that should give them reason to look further.
Your entire premise for this is corporations silencing liberal hosts? They hired these hosts. They paid these hosts. Had none of this happened they still would be on the air. Period. There is a reason they were taken off - legal problems.
[/quote]

The right wing had the chance to buy 50kW stations for Conservative programs like Rush, and they did it - companies like Clear Channel and Entercom. The left wing has never understood the importance of talk radio. When you have people in positions of power like Phil Boyce and Brian Jennings who are ultra-conservative, then anything is possible.

You're missing something about the legal issues. Both Webb and Ward never had a chance to defend themselves (in court) before they were taken off the air. Now CONTRAST THAT to Rush Limbaugh - who STAYED ON THE AIR through his Illegal Drug hearings. That is hypocrisy. Or, convicted felons G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North hosting talk shows - just ridiculous.

It would have been better for advertisers for the stations in question (KIRO, KGO) to just "cover up" the legal battles until the court cases. In media, it is very easy to cover things up going on beyond the scenes w/ your on-air talent.