Bertolucci Out at KFI

[davideduardo]

Yes. Don't look now, but...we are in America. And the "live and local" concept that began in the Golden Age of Radio, and through the 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's made Radio the success that it once was. IN AMERICA. The industry has been ruining what made it great by cannibalizing itself for years. Not sure why you're defending the downfall.

Radio was not "live and local" in the Golden Age of the late 20's to the earlier 50's. It was national: Red and Blue and CBS and later NBC, CBS, ABC and Mutual. Almost all the "listened to" programming was nation-wide on networks.

Congress tried to prevent any individual stations from having wide audience area coverage by limiting the power of stations to just 50kw for a few, 5kw for many more and 250 watts for about 1,000 more.

The high cost of interconnection prevented music formats from "going national" but if cheap distribution had been possible, we would have done national and regional formats in the 50's and 60's. By the 70's, we got thousands of stations running taped "unwired network" formats and then satellite allowed simultaneous broadcast of formats on huge numbers of stations.

If you listen to the national stations in places as diverse as France and Perú and Chile and Spain you will hear much better music formats with excellent talent, the most interesting artist appearances and the like... using dozens if not hundreds of transmitters to cover an entire nation.

So much for "Local".

Now, as to "live" that began to die when Ampex introduced tape recorders and Bing Crosby could do one show and have it run in each time zone at the same local time. Then we got carts, and automation and could have a station sounding live while actually being 100% recorded. Then we got computers, and it became even easier to create a station with little or no live programming.

So much for "Live" (which was a myth all along).

 

[TheBigA]

Yes. Don't look now, but...we are in America. And the "live and local" concept that began in the Golden Age of Radio, and through the 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's made

Actually, the Golden Age of Radio was based on the dominance of network radio. All of the programs people talk about from the 30s and 40s were national.

Using your analogy, retail used to be local. Every town had their own locally owned department stores, hardware stores, and even music stores. All of them have gone away and replaced by Macys and Home Depot. There are no music stores anymore because people stream on the internet. The internet is the great equalizer. It made local radio and local retail obsolete. The people aren't going back to the way things once were. So yes, it's too bad all of the things you remember are going away. Nobody misses it more than the people who work in these businesses. They're all out of jobs. But the people have spoken, and they love using the internet and listening to national streaming services. Nothing local radio can do to change that.

 

[ayoda]

Interesting discussion, as always. I do think there's a difference between the days of network radio, which often involved larger scale productions, vs. the 60s - 70s - 80s individual personality who built relationships with their audience, nonetheless the "Golden Age of Radio" was indeed before TV. It's possible to have a relationship with listeners via pre-recorded material, but I'd argue it's more difficult. As for the Home Depots taking over the local hardware stores, it's a good analogy though I've noticed Gen Z has an interest in supporting local businesses, though it's hard to beat the convenience of an Amazon or a big box store.

Another note about Gen Z: They may be more likely to enjoy the choice of watching something on Netflix at their convenience, but I do hear my students talking about what happened on "The Bachelor" (yeech) the night before. The medium is always a factor, but so is content. (They even have a good laugh about "The Golden Bachelor," but I digress.)

I distinctly recall when in-dash cassette units were supposed to kill radio, but the airwaves survived. The Internet is different, particularly in the number of choices available, yet radio has faced different technologies before.

Arguably there are other factors hastening the demise of radio, particularly the high spot loads (10-12 spots in a row, sometimes with conflicting advertising). But the accountants are going to dominate when the parent company is navigating through anything from $350 million to $5 billion in outstanding debt. My two yen.

 

[TheBigA]

I distinctly recall when in-dash cassette units were supposed to kill radio, but the airwaves survived.

It was the first in a series of drops to TSL. People listened to radio less because they had their own personal playlists on cassette. At the time, it wasn't enough to kill radio, but it was noticeable. Keep adding more alternatives, and then it takes a toll. Nothing radio can do about new options.

Arguably there are other factors hastening the demise of radio, particularly the high spot loads (10-12 spots in a row, sometimes with conflicting advertising).

The number of spots per hour hasn't really changed in 30 years. Grouping them together in one or two clusters began with PPM 15 years ago. None of this is new. What is new is the preponderance of free options with few or no commercials. Cutting commercial loads on broadcast radio will cut operating budgets even more, resulting in even fewer local personalities.

 

[ayoda]

The number of spots per hour hasn't really changed in 30 years. Grouping them together in one or two clusters began with PPM 15 years ago. None of this is new. What is new is the preponderance of free options with few or no commercials. Cutting commercial loads on broadcast radio will cut operating budgets even more, resulting in even fewer local personalities.

You may be right, but I'd argue the declining cost and revenue of individual spots has also affected how many ads are heard. I do remember many of the top 40 outlets significantly reducing their commercial load. When Ten-Q in LA first debuted, they limited themselves to eight spots per hour. Not sustainable, but I still think there were less spots before than now (I'm aware that was more than 30 years ago). As for grouping spots together, I'll defer to your understanding of PPM, but I know my son and his peers know it's time to turn the dial or turn off the radio when the commercials start since that's all they'll hear for the next 5+ minutes. Again, interesting discussion.

 

[TheBigA]

You may be right, but I'd argue the declining cost and revenue of individual spots has also affected how many ads are heard.

Declining revenue has led to continual layoffs and other cost cutting. They really can't add any more spots to an hour, and as I said, the number of minutes hasn't increased. I have program logs from back then, I'm not working from memory. What's changed is how they're grouped, which has created the perception that there are more spots.

As for grouping spots together, I'll defer to your understanding of PPM

The research has been pretty conclusive on this. Only a small percentage tune away from long breaks. Less than 10%.

 

[davideduardo]

It was the first in a series of drops to TSL. People listened to radio less because they had their own personal playlists on cassette. At the time, it wasn't enough to kill radio, but it was noticeable. Keep adding more alternatives, and then it takes a toll. Nothing radio can do about new options.

The highest TSLs for radio overall and individual stations (PUR) were in the end of the 80s and starting years of the 90’s. Cassettes and CDs still did not prevent radio from being at a peak.

The fist decline is likely more due to video games, not music collections.

 

[davideduardo]

You may be right, but I'd argue the declining cost and revenue of individual spots has also affected how many ads are heard. I do remember many of the top 40 outlets significantly reducing their commercial load. When Ten-Q in LA first debuted, they limited themselves to eight spots per hour. Not sustainable,

What was not sustainable was Top 40 on AM. Plenty of stations kept 8 to 10 minute limits well into the 80s.

The “fuse” of longer stopsets was the profusion of new stations at the end of the 80s due to docket 80-90 granting so many more stations on FM along with upgrades And moves.

 

[michael hagerty]

When Ten-Q in LA first debuted, they limited themselves to eight spots per hour.

Worth keeping in mind that when TenQ first happened, KHJ was at 14 minutes and KFI had just hired John Rook as PD, which told everyone that they were going Top 40.

Eight minutes an hour was a way for KTNQ to break through the clutter, play two more records and hour and have a longer music sweep or two in the process.

A few years earlier, KKDJ went with eight minutes an hour, and forced KHJ to protect itself by doing the same. K-100 was going to limit itself to eight, but it had trouble selling that many. By the time they got there, both KKDJ and KHJ were running 12-14 minute commercial hours.

 

[TheBigA]

The highest TSLs for radio overall and individual stations (PUR) were in the end of the 80s and starting years of the 90’s. Cassettes and CDs still did not prevent radio from being at a peak. The fist decline is likely more due to video games, not music collections.

I'd suggest both, and it kept growing into the 90s. Video games primarily attracted young men. The amount of home taping led to the music industry to demand a blank tape tax.

ISSUE AND DEBATE; ROYALTIES ON RECORDERS AND BLANK AUDIO TAPES (Published 1985)

www.nytimes.com

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Worth keeping in mind that when TenQ first happened, KHJ was at 14 minutes and KFI had just hired John Rook as PD, which told everyone that they were going Top 40.

Eight minutes an hour was a way for KTNQ to break through the clutter, play two more records and hour and have a longer music sweep or two in the process.

A few years earlier, KKDJ went with eight minutes an hour, and forced KHJ to protect itself by doing the same. K-100 was going to limit itself to eight, but it had trouble selling that many. By the time they got there, both KKDJ and KHJ were running 12-14 minute commercial hours.

I dunno, I mainly listen to SiriusXM for my music, but was in the car listening to JACK (KCBS-FM) the other day and it seemed like they played 8 minutes straight of commercials. I have had similar experiences lately with KLOS and KRTH as well.

And I can't believe this hasn't been a topic yet, but I find the messages on the car radio dash screen from injury lawyers displaying while the music is playing to be especially annoying. I am in awe that so many car listeners seem willing to put up with it. It is a total non-starter for me. The way FM music radio is run now has completely pushed me to satellite.

 

[TheBigA]

The way FM music radio is run now has completely pushed me to satellite.

There is a big discussion within Sirius to find ways to better monetize their services, so don't be surprised if they start inserting ads in the music channels.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

There is a big discussion within Sirius to find ways to better monetize their services, so don't be surprised if they start inserting ads in the music channels.

Nothing spreads faster than a bad idea. I have been worried they might pick this one up.

 

[KilowattKat]

There is a big discussion within Sirius to find ways to better monetize their services, so don't be surprised if they start inserting ads in the music channels.

I thought this was currently being done at the new FREE subscription level they are now offering. It's also a limited lineup of channels for free.

 

[TheBigA]

I thought this was currently being done at the new FREE subscription level they are now offering. It's also a limited lineup of channels for free.

Correct, it's free with ads.

 

[davideduardo]

I'd suggest both, and it kept growing into the 90s. Video games primarily attracted young men. The amount of home taping led to the music industry to demand a blank tape tax.

Yet PUR increased or had stable periods all the way up to the early 1990's. It was new electronic media, including games, and a few years later, the web, that had a real effect.

 

[MarkW]

There is a big discussion within Sirius to find ways to better monetize their services, so don't be surprised if they start inserting ads in the music channels.

Won't happen in a million years for those who pay for regular subscriptions. They will lose subscriptions in droves if they were to do such a thing.

A free package with a limited number of channels is being rolled out where some commercial advertising will air. The main purpose of this strategy is to induce sampling...in an effort to entice these folks to sign up for paid subscriptions.

 

[michael hagerty]

Won't happen in a million years for those who pay for regular subscriptions. They will lose subscriptions in droves if they were to do such a thing.

A free package with a limited number of channels is being rolled out where some commercial advertising will air. The main purpose of this strategy is to induce sampling...in an effort to entice these folks to sign up for paid subscriptions.

I suspect they're looking at what's happening in streaming video right now and wondering if it will work for them.

Streaming video channels have found that advertising brings in a lot of money, and so do subscriptions. The most profitable is to take money from both viewers and advertisers at the same time.

So what they've done in the past year is make their "with ads" subscription rate a buck or two a month lower than it used to be and nudge their "without ads" rate higher---as much as eight dollars a month higher than it was last year.

They're counting on the folks who love cheap to say yes to "with ads" and to apply such price pressure to their "ad-free" tier that people just cave and go for the cheap tier. The more people who say yes to the ads, the more they can charge the advertiser and keep the "with ads" rate down around $6.99-$7.99 while "ad-free" is running $16.99-$18.99 a month.

Again, it's working like a charm for video streamers, who suddenly find themselves profitable. If I were SiriusXM, I'd be crazy not to look at it. In fact, as a publicly traded company, they have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to consider it.

 

[TheBigA]

The main purpose of this strategy is to induce sampling...in an effort to entice these folks to sign up for paid subscriptions.

It's also meant to diversify their revenue stream so all revenue isn't restricted to subscribers. The subscriber number has topped out at around 30 million. They need to find ways to grow the base in other ways.

 

[Weiserguy]

It's also meant to diversify their revenue stream so all revenue isn't restricted to subscribers. The subscriber number has topped out at around 30 million. They need to find ways to grow the base in other ways.

They already carry ads on their exclusive-content talk stations (e.g., POTUS). It's not that big a deal, because the hosts need a moment here and there to take a short break and/or switch gears. I think most listeners realize this. But I agree with @MarkW, if they pull that particular bait&switch on the music channels, that will be the kiss of death for a battleship-load of their listeners. For them "ad-free" wasn't ever a bug, it was the feature.