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BEST BLANK C.Ds FOR THE MONEY?

N

nightfly61

Guest
I've been burning mp3 & wav file audio onto the gold silk screened Maxell CD-R 700 mb blank discs & noticed some players don't like the ink coating on the top side. Does this really effect playback, and for the money, what are the best store bought brand for burning long programs onto? TDK maybe? Anybody? :)
 
If you buy from a music supplier or order online, Taiyo Yuden makes the best discs. From someplace like Best Buy, I stand pretty firmly behind Verbatim.

Emmett
 
nightfly61 said:
I've been burning mp3 & wav file audio onto the gold silk screened Maxell CD-R 700 mb blank discs & noticed some players don't like the ink coating on the top side.

About 18 months ago I took the responsibility for keeping up the Direct-to-CD recording process for our church. I buy the media and give it labels (for the Sunday operators to write on), I rip the CD, edit it, and make copies. At the time I got involved we began having failures and I was ready to send the machine off for factory repairs. The longer I worked with the problem, I realized it was a MEDIA problem, not a machine problem. I picked everybody's brain who would stand still, and searched the web.

The meaningful conversation about brand quality and characteristics stopped three to five years ago on the web. Almost everything you find out there is pretty stale now.

I get the idea there are about six factories inthe world that make all the blanks and maybe six or eight major "store brands". Apparently they go out for bids and no matter which brand you buy today, you have no assurance that it came from the same factory as the last batch you bought.

I, too, have settled on the Taiyo Yuden disks for our masters. Our Marantz CDR510 seems to like them.

For the copies I produce I go for store brands off the bargain table. I went through about four CD-R drives in my computer before I found one that was willing to read the masters during RIPS and then make a copy that every player I have in my possession will read.

If you discuss these issues with people at retail, they look at you like you are crazy, and begin looking for an escape route. The standard "wisdom" is: It's digital. It works or it doesn't work. All machines work with all disks. Wrong, wrong. wrong.

If you want Taiyo Yudens, find a dealer you can trust. They have no company markings on them. A bad operator could give you phony goods. Look for a vendor who sells to recording studios and wedding photographers. In Atlanta I use "Tape Warehouse".

I pay a fraction over 25 cents each for T-Y. In the stores I look for spindles of 100 when they are priced $13 to $16.

I don't care how deranged they think I am: The burner drive in your PC will cut a CD that some players will not play and it will not always be the fault of the blank cd.
 
Find a CD you like and it works with the burner and stick to it.

I used to use TDK's... now those are hard to find. I bought a few
different brands until I found one that has worked with every burner
and player in our studios and office computer at my desk where I have
Audition.... Imation is what I use now....great CD. Target has them on
sale - and I stock up - buying the stacks of 100. Sam's or Cosco also
sell them for a good deal on occasion.

Good Luck!
 
When you burn CDs, does the CD itself have any effect on volume equalization?

I don't copy entire CDs, but prefer to make my own mixes of different songs and artists. Since I'm transferring from multiple sources, there seems to be a problem with stabilizing the volume on all the tracks. One track can be loud, followed by one that's soft, so I'm constantly adjusting the volume during playback.

I use Sony's SonicStage and always click the box to normalize the volume during the transfer, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
 
BlueHen said:
When you burn CDs, does the CD itself have any effect on volume equalization?

I don't copy entire CDs, but prefer to make my own mixes of different songs and artists. Since I'm transferring from multiple sources, there seems to be a problem with stabilizing the volume on all the tracks. One track can be loud, followed by one that's soft, so I'm constantly adjusting the volume during playback.

I use Sony's SonicStage and always click the box to normalize the volume during the transfer, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
I get the same problem when mixing continuous segued music with Adobe 1.5 even after fixing levels & Normalizing. Anyone know why?
 
nightfly61 said:
BlueHen said:
When you burn CDs, does the CD itself have any effect on volume equalization?

I don't copy entire CDs, but prefer to make my own mixes of different songs and artists. Since I'm transferring from multiple sources, there seems to be a problem with stabilizing the volume on all the tracks. One track can be loud, followed by one that's soft, so I'm constantly adjusting the volume during playback.

I use Sony's SonicStage and always click the box to normalize the volume during the transfer, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
I get the same problem when mixing continuous segued music with Adobe 1.5 even after fixing levels & Normalizing. Anyone know why?

I wish we could all be in the same room together for a few minutes so we could each demonstrate what we do with a "piece of sound". Trying to write out an explanation gets long, long, long.

The first thing I assume we need to agree on is understanding NORMALIZE. As I understand it, and as it works in Cool Edit and now Audition is that the software scans the entire selection and searches for the one loudest single peak of audio and then adjusts the entire selection from end to end with equal amounts of gain or gain reduction from end to end so that the one single peak ends up being at the normalized peak we asked for. (In Audition you tell the software whether you want it normalize to 100% (0.0 db) or 90% or 80% or -1.1 db or -3.0 db or whatever your choice. The CD Burning softwares will ask if you would like for the sound to be normalized but they normally don't give you a choice as to what the end peak level will be.

If your sound track has four or five really loud places and the rest is soft, normalization does NOTHING to make the soft places louder and the peak places softer. It takes compression and limiting to do that.

Sometimes an entire track is messed up because of one switch-click, the drum-beat, one sibilant. I used to have a laptop that would put one big thump one cycle long at the beginning of a recording. Chop that off the begining, run NORMALIZE and have a decent level. I edit a lot of recordings of church worship services. When it comes time to baptise a baby, they look up and see that lavalier mic clipped to the pastor's label and they go for it. It must look like a new toy or a new binky. Edit out that one thump and everything normalizes much better.

In editing these "live before a studio audience" type recordings I usually do a lot of tedious 'hand editing' of the little outbursts, etc. I then look for lengthy places that seem to be too soft and select them and add 2, 3 or 6 db of gain as appropriate, and reduce the gain of some really loud places. Then I will run it through a very gentle sloped compression process.

Audition has a feature that can be useful in all of this. In version 2.0 it is under 'WINDOW' and then look for 'Amplitude Statistics' on the drop down menu. Select the entire track, or a portion of a track and then pull up the Amplitude Statistics. The number I look for here is the 'Average RMS Power'. If you take a TONE and normalize to 0.0 the RMS Power number is going to be about -3.0 at best. When I get through with a mixed session of talk and music, I find it is often about -22.0 or so in RMS Power. By selecting soft and loud places and comparing the numbers, you know how much gain you want to add to the soft places.

I have found when "ripping" from a cassette tope to a digital file, if I start Audition recording and then reach over and push START on the tape playback, the end recording will likely have one of those ugly spikes from the tape machine that is about a 7.4 on the Richter scale.

Get those warts and freckles out of you tracks and then the normalize and the compression can do it's job (better?).
 
In AA, use the "Group Waveform Normalize" function. You can normalize to an average level of files, or to a set level for RMS. It's not perfect, but as far as "loudness", it's the best you can do. The only better way is to have a "loudness" meter...Or simply do it by ear. Automatically, the only way is to use RMS.

Emmett
 
Thanks, guys. It makes sense now. What's normalized is the highest peak in each track, which usually occurs well into a song and not at the beginning... and that's why the low volume at the beginning of the softer tracks is more noticeable. Your ears have been acclimated to the high peaks of the previous track.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
I wish we could all be in the same room together for a few minutes so we could each demonstrate what we do with a "piece of sound". Trying to write out an explanation gets long, long, long.

It sounds like a demonstration by Goat Rodeo Cowboy would be very educational. Great stuff!
 
Emmetts message about Group Waveform Normalization was very helpful to me. My switchover from Cool Edit to AA was not that long ago and I had not discovered this feature yet.

Thank you, Emmett. That is why I love discussion forums. And sometimes I have to blunder right out in front of everyone with a bit of stupidity to learn something new.

BlueHen: Here is the BAD NEWS. When get as picky as I do in just cleaning up a recording, the ratio is about six to one. Hour long recording? Six hours of work to get it to the level of perfection I expect. If I were selling these things, I might feel I needed to take even longer.

But it keeps me off the streets late at night. ::)
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
But it keeps me off the streets late at night. ::)

That... and this radio-info website.

Oh, and thanks again for the normalization lesson (and Emmett, nightfly, ginkgo). Hearing from the experts is what makes this site worthwhile.
 
But sometimes it's odd. One song will be in the red pegging & there won't even be much audio waves showing. (?) Then there's others with a lot of audio showing & are just regular or even quiet. (?) ???
 
nightfly61 said:
But sometimes it's odd. One song will be in the red pegging & there won't even be much audio waves showing. (?) Then there's others with a lot of audio showing & are just regular or even quiet. (?) ???

Are these visual indicators (pegging in the red and audio waves showing) in AA1.5 or are you seeing this somewhere else? At times I question the integrity of the meter bars at the bottom of the screen in AA2.0.
 
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