Best Coverage?

[davideduardo]

Personally, I am not looking forward to a more powerful WRTO as their Pancho Villa-style northern Mexican programming doesn't appeal to me one bit.

WRTO does not primarily program music, so I don't get the "Northern Mexico" reference. It is mostly talk, with a lot of programming coming out of the radio Cadena Univision studios in Miami.

 

[Icangelp]

I no longer travel the country, so I don't know what station has the best coverage, however a person would think midwest and near west stations would cover large areas...KSL KOA WCCO come to mind.

KMOX has been a reliable and strong signal here in IN/OH since I began listening in the late 50's. How do they do out West?

A station not mentioned is 860/CJBC. The signal is very reliable and usually strong here in SW Ohio.

Have to feel 1530/WCKY gets out quite far prior to going directional.

WLS has a reliable and strong signal in my area.

 

[fybush]

There was a time when this topic had a really meaningful answer. That time ended about 20 years ago, when the AM rules were changed to break down what was left of the clear channels.

Back in the heyday of the clear channels, before the 1960s, there were still a few frequencies that were completely non-duplicated at night anywhere in the continental US and Canada: 650, 660, 670, 700, 720, 750, 760, 780, 820, 840, 870, 880, 890, 1020, 1030, 1040, 1120, 1180, 1200 and 1210 each had one and only one 50-kw signal on the air anywhere in the country after dark, all non-directional (except 870 and 1030, and 660 prior to 1963 as well.)

The only thing limiting coverage of those signals was the extent of skywave propagation, and just about any DXer anywhere in the country would have had multiple logs of each of these stations. There was no significant interference limitation to any of those stations' coverage areas.

That began to change when some of those channels (initially 670, 720, 780, 880, 1020, 1030, 1120) were broken down with the addition of the class II-A clear channels out west in the 1960s.

Subsequent breakdowns of the clear channels reduced coverage areas even more, and today those former I-A clears are lumped into a broader "class A" category that all but guarantees that there will be multiple additional stations operating on their frequencies around the country.

Why does this matter in the context of this question? Simple: because by now, there have been enough new stations added to the airwaves around the country to pretty much ensure that any former I-A clear channel's coverage is limited not by propagation but by co-channel interference.

In practice, then, it doesn't really matter whether you're looking at WFAN or WSM or KFI or WOAI when it comes to nighttime coverage, since they're all about equal. There's a ring of solid groundwave coverage that might be as much as 150 miles in the midwest, or as little as 50 or 60 miles in Atlanta or Nashville. Around that is another ring of groundwave/skywave interference that goes out 100-150 miles from the transmitter site, depending on ground conductivity and the vertical radiation pattern of the transmitting antenna.

After that, there's clean, reasonably interference-free skywave reception out to the 0.5 mV/m contour, provided the other stations on the channel are behaving themselves. That exact distance varies by frequency, but it's generally in the 750-900 mile range.

And beyond that, it's a free-for-all. There are some channels that are still relatively empty (on 650, for instance, you've got to go all the way from Nashville to northern Minnesota or Wyoming to find the next full-time signal to interfere), and some that have become crowded messes (1200, for instance, in the northeast and upper midwest), and there's the added twist of interference from adjacent-channel IBOC noise, but in general the question just isn't as interesting as it once was.

(The same rules apply, in general, to the former class I-B directionals like WCKY or WWKB, at least if you're not in their nulls.)

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Have to feel 1530/WCKY gets out quite far prior to going directional.

When did they go directional? IIRC, they were directional around 1964 when I first became aware of such things.

 

[Wthom100]

Scott Flybush -

Excellent post - very informative.

From what I have read, back in the day there were days where people on the east coast could hear KFI fairly regulary. 50,000 watts go a long way without any interference.


cheers -

 

[radioman148]

Scott Flybush -

Excellent post - very informative.

From what I have read, back in the day there were days where people on the east coast could hear KFI fairly regulary. 50,000 watts go a long way without any interference.


cheers -

In the 60s you could hear KFI in the east and WNBC, WABC, WCBS, WBZ, WLS, WGN, WMAQ, WBBM, and others, on the west coast and even Hawaii in the case of WLS & WBBM.

 

[vibe]

Scott-learned a LOTfrom your last post.BUT part of the fun of DX ing today is the occasional 2000+ mi catch out of the mess we have for an AM band. But if the topic is "best coverage" wouldn't that eliminate stations in NYC. LA, Bos, NO etc and limit them to stations who put much of their power over solid ground. Therefore for my money my choices are KSL, KOA, KMOX, WBBM, WSM. and WLW in no particular order. Honorables include WSB, WBT, 670 Chi-forgot the calls and WHAS . I don't know enough about 820 Dall and 1200 S.A. except to know they put decent to good signals into IA and SW fla. So they are definitely up there.
And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone...

 

[gar hi]

If you're talking about stations with good surface wave coverage, WWL should win hands down, IMO.

Because of the salt water, they can be heard from Florida to Texas along the coast during the day with a good signal too.

 

[BRNout]

If you're talking about stations with good surface wave coverage, WWL should win hands down, IMO.

Because of the salt water, they can be heard from Florida to Texas along the coast during the day with a good signal too.

Nope, CBK still outdoes that by traveling farther and over land.

The trouble with the saltwater surface conductivity is that it doesn't tend to help very far inland. So you get spectacular coverage of certain coastal signals, but in highly select spots (like New York AMs on the Outer Banks of NC). Head 1 mile inland and the signal degrades a lot. Not the case for a low frequency powerhouse like CBK which blankets the plains with a solid groundwave signal that travels for hundreds of miles.

This leads me to ask, what about those superpowered longwave stations over in Europe? Surely you must be able to get daytime coastal reception of those hundreds of miles from their tx sites. And, how about areas with decent ground conductivity (if any) in Europe? Given the power and extra low frequencies involved, their ranges should be impressive.

 

[Len14043]

There was a time when this topic had a really meaningful answer. That time ended about 20 years ago, when the AM rules were changed to break down what was left of the clear channels.

Back in the heyday of the clear channels, before the 1960s, there were still a few frequencies that were completely non-duplicated at night anywhere in the continental US and Canada: 650, 660, 670, 700, 720, 750, 760, 780, 820, 840, 870, 880, 890, 1020, 1030, 1040, 1120, 1180, 1200 and 1210 each had one and only one 50-kw signal on the air anywhere in the country after dark, all non-directional (except 870 and 1030, and 660 prior to 1963 as well.)

The only thing limiting coverage of those signals was the extent of skywave propagation, and just about any DXer anywhere in the country would have had multiple logs of each of these stations. There was no significant interference limitation to any of those stations' coverage areas.

That began to change when some of those channels (initially 670, 720, 780, 880, 1020, 1030, 1120) were broken down with the addition of the class II-A clear channels out west in the 1960s.

Subsequent breakdowns of the clear channels reduced coverage areas even more, and today those former I-A clears are lumped into a broader "class A" category that all but guarantees that there will be multiple additional stations operating on their frequencies around the country.

Why does this matter in the context of this question? Simple: because by now, there have been enough new stations added to the airwaves around the country to pretty much ensure that any former I-A clear channel's coverage is limited not by propagation but by co-channel interference.

In practice, then, it doesn't really matter whether you're looking at WFAN or WSM or KFI or WOAI when it comes to nighttime coverage, since they're all about equal. There's a ring of solid groundwave coverage that might be as much as 150 miles in the midwest, or as little as 50 or 60 miles in Atlanta or Nashville. Around that is another ring of groundwave/skywave interference that goes out 100-150 miles from the transmitter site, depending on ground conductivity and the vertical radiation pattern of the transmitting antenna.

After that, there's clean, reasonably interference-free skywave reception out to the 0.5 mV/m contour, provided the other stations on the channel are behaving themselves. That exact distance varies by frequency, but it's generally in the 750-900 mile range.

And beyond that, it's a free-for-all. There are some channels that are still relatively empty (on 650, for instance, you've got to go all the way from Nashville to northern Minnesota or Wyoming to find the next full-time signal to interfere), and some that have become crowded messes (1200, for instance, in the northeast and upper midwest), and there's the added twist of interference from adjacent-channel IBOC noise, but in general the question just isn't as interesting as it once was.

(The same rules apply, in general, to the former class I-B directionals like WCKY or WWKB, at least if you're not in their nulls.)

Ah yes. Those were the good old days. If the question was posed over which station had the best coverage around 1975, I would nominate KSL, WOAI, WLS, WHAM and WCAU. I'm sure there were many more. In the 70's, WHAM and WCAU were the only eastern stations reliably heard west of the Rockies because they owned their respective frequencies while stations such as WGY, WABC, WCBS and WBZ had co-channels in the west. WLS was listenable coast to coast because of its central location. KSL and WOAI also owned their frequencies. KFI occasionally made an appearance in the east.

 

[radioman148]

There was a time when this topic had a really meaningful answer. That time ended about 20 years ago, when the AM rules were changed to break down what was left of the clear channels.

Back in the heyday of the clear channels, before the 1960s, there were still a few frequencies that were completely non-duplicated at night anywhere in the continental US and Canada: 650, 660, 670, 700, 720, 750, 760, 780, 820, 840, 870, 880, 890, 1020, 1030, 1040, 1120, 1180, 1200 and 1210 each had one and only one 50-kw signal on the air anywhere in the country after dark, all non-directional (except 870 and 1030, and 660 prior to 1963 as well.)

The only thing limiting coverage of those signals was the extent of skywave propagation, and just about any DXer anywhere in the country would have had multiple logs of each of these stations. There was no significant interference limitation to any of those stations' coverage areas.

That began to change when some of those channels (initially 670, 720, 780, 880, 1020, 1030, 1120) were broken down with the addition of the class II-A clear channels out west in the 1960s.

Subsequent breakdowns of the clear channels reduced coverage areas even more, and today those former I-A clears are lumped into a broader "class A" category that all but guarantees that there will be multiple additional stations operating on their frequencies around the country.

Why does this matter in the context of this question? Simple: because by now, there have been enough new stations added to the airwaves around the country to pretty much ensure that any former I-A clear channel's coverage is limited not by propagation but by co-channel interference.

In practice, then, it doesn't really matter whether you're looking at WFAN or WSM or KFI or WOAI when it comes to nighttime coverage, since they're all about equal. There's a ring of solid groundwave coverage that might be as much as 150 miles in the midwest, or as little as 50 or 60 miles in Atlanta or Nashville. Around that is another ring of groundwave/skywave interference that goes out 100-150 miles from the transmitter site, depending on ground conductivity and the vertical radiation pattern of the transmitting antenna.

After that, there's clean, reasonably interference-free skywave reception out to the 0.5 mV/m contour, provided the other stations on the channel are behaving themselves. That exact distance varies by frequency, but it's generally in the 750-900 mile range.

And beyond that, it's a free-for-all. There are some channels that are still relatively empty (on 650, for instance, you've got to go all the way from Nashville to northern Minnesota or Wyoming to find the next full-time signal to interfere), and some that have become crowded messes (1200, for instance, in the northeast and upper midwest), and there's the added twist of interference from adjacent-channel IBOC noise, but in general the question just isn't as interesting as it once was.

(The same rules apply, in general, to the former class I-B directionals like WCKY or WWKB, at least if you're not in their nulls.)

Ah yes. Those were the good old days. If the question was posed over which station had the best coverage around 1975, I would nominate KSL, WOAI, WLS, WHAM and WCAU. I'm sure there were many more. In the 70's, WHAM and WCAU were the only eastern stations reliably heard west of the Rockies because they owned their respective frequencies while stations such as WGY, WABC, WCBS and WBZ had co-channels in the west. WLS was listenable coast to coast because of its central location. KSL and WOAI also owned their frequencies. KFI occasionally made an appearance in the east.

In the 60s, WBZ & WCBS had their frequencies all to themselves also. I often heard both stations on the west coast. Also picked up WABC on the west coast after KOB signed off at midnight.

 

[gar hi]

Nope, CBK still outdoes that by traveling farther and over land.

If we're talking about on land only then yes, you're right.

I was pointing out the massive coverage area if you take into account the locations that get the salt water path signal.

In the 60s, WBZ & WCBS had their frequencies all to themselves also. I often heard both stations on the west coast. Also picked up WABC on the west coast after KOB signed off at midnight.

I know that's true because I've picked up WCBS in Northern California (though weak) in the late 70s and 1210 WCAU there late at night also in the early 80s.

I wish I was 10 years older and could have been out there earlier than the 70s to hear WABC.

When I was staying out there in the summers of 75 and 77, I kept listening to hear WABC in the background by turning the radio to null KOB.

At times, I did hear another station but it was way too weak to hear much of anything.

I'm glad I got to experience AM DXing in the old days, especially because they played top 40.

Out there, WLS wasn't that much weaker than I got it in New Jersey.

KFI was almost like a local at night, about as strong as KFRC which was about 40 miles away.

That's what made me search so hard for KFI when I returned home from my stay in 77 and I finally got it eventually but only once.

 

[radioman148]

Nope, CBK still outdoes that by traveling farther and over land.

If we're talking about on land only then yes, you're right.

I was pointing out the massive coverage area if you take into account the locations that get the salt water path signal.

In the 60s, WBZ & WCBS had their frequencies all to themselves also. I often heard both stations on the west coast. Also picked up WABC on the west coast after KOB signed off at midnight.

I know that's true because I've picked up WCBS in Northern California (though weak) in the late 70s and 1210 WCAU there late at night also in the early 80s.

I wish I was 10 years older and could have been out there earlier than the 70s to hear WABC.

When I was staying out there in the summers of 75 and 77, I kept listening to hear WABC in the background by turning the radio to null KOB.

At times, I did hear another station but it was way too weak to hear much of anything.

I'm glad I got to experience AM DXing in the old days, especially because they played top 40.

Out there, WLS wasn't that much weaker than I got it in New Jersey.

KFI was almost like a local at night, about as strong as KFRC which was about 40 miles away.

That's what made me search so hard for KFI when I returned home from my stay in 77 and I finally got it eventually but only once.

I picked up WABC twice on the west coast. Once in 1963 in Seattle and once in LA in 64.
The night I was listening in Seattle in August of 63 was one DX night I'll never forget.
It was a Sunday night. On that night in Seattle I heard all four Chicago clears very strong & three NYC clears, WNBC, WABC, & WCBS. Also heard WBZ that night very well. I'm sure there were lots of other eastern stations that came in that night but those were the ones that I heard the best.

 

[gar hi]

Since I've now gotten video captures of my reception of KOA and then KSL, my latest DXing project is to get a video capture of KFI.

What I've been doing when I have the time is waiting until the top of each hour late at night, usually 10, 11, 12, 1 where I listen to the radio with the video camera ready.

So far, there's been nothing other than the usual with the Cuban dominating and some other weaker Spanish station in the background. Also, the station from The Villages will drift in and out now and then.

So last night, I decided to listen for a solid hour instead of just the usual few minute spans I had been doing because I decided to get KFI's online stream on my computer and I noticed that before Coast to Coast comes on at 1am my time, there are quite a few station IDs throughout the hour. That made me realize there is more available time to try to catch KFI with an official ID.

And I noticed something interesting, that some weak station was poking through in very short bursts in spans that lasted less than a minute with even stronger little bursts lasting only 10 seconds or so.

Whatever station I was getting only came in only when the radio was facing WNW, the direction of LA.

I got obsessed with getting an official catch with an ID and ended up listening until just past 3 in the morning, even just waiting till the top of the hour and half hour once Coast to Coast came on and yes, I was definately hearing that on whatever this station was I was getting.

Since it was getting late, I made a video capture when the station came in well enough to hear "something" but just at the threshold of being able to actually hear words but I should only put something on You Tube when I get a clear official ID.

Is it just me or can DXing sometimes be as frustrating as it can be exciting?

 

[radioman148]

Since I've now gotten video captures of my reception of KOA and then KSL, my latest DXing project is to get a video capture of KFI.

What I've been doing when I have the time is waiting until the top of each hour late at night, usually 10, 11, 12, 1 where I listen to the radio with the video camera ready.

So far, there's been nothing other than the usual with the Cuban dominating and some other weaker Spanish station in the background. Also, the station from The Villages will drift in and out now and then.

So last night, I decided to listen for a solid hour instead of just the usual few minute spans I had been doing because I decided to get KFI's online stream on my computer and I noticed that before Coast to Coast comes on at 1am my time, there are quite a few station IDs throughout the hour. That made me realize there is more available time to try to catch KFI with an official ID.

And I noticed something interesting, that some weak station was poking through in very short bursts in spans that lasted less than a minute with even stronger little bursts lasting only 10 seconds or so.

Whatever station I was getting only came in only when the radio was facing WNW, the direction of LA.

I got obsessed with getting an official catch with an ID and ended up listening until just past 3 in the morning, even just waiting till the top of the hour and half hour once Coast to Coast came on and yes, I was definately hearing that on whatever this station was I was getting.

Since it was getting late, I made a video capture when the station came in well enough to hear "something" but just at the threshold of being able to actually hear words but I should only put something on You Tube when I get a clear official ID.

Is it just me or can DXing sometimes be as frustrating as it can be exciting?

Frustration and DXing go hand in hand. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I've tried to get a station ID with the station fading out just before the moment of truth.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Since I've now gotten video captures of my reception of KOA and then KSL, my latest DXing project is to get a video capture of KFI.

What I've been doing when I have the time is waiting until the top of each hour late at night, usually 10, 11, 12, 1 where I listen to the radio with the video camera ready.

So far, there's been nothing other than the usual with the Cuban dominating and some other weaker Spanish station in the background. Also, the station from The Villages will drift in and out now and then.

So last night, I decided to listen for a solid hour instead of just the usual few minute spans I had been doing because I decided to get KFI's online stream on my computer and I noticed that before Coast to Coast comes on at 1am my time, there are quite a few station IDs throughout the hour. That made me realize there is more available time to try to catch KFI with an official ID.

And I noticed something interesting, that some weak station was poking through in very short bursts in spans that lasted less than a minute with even stronger little bursts lasting only 10 seconds or so.

Whatever station I was getting only came in only when the radio was facing WNW, the direction of LA.

I got obsessed with getting an official catch with an ID and ended up listening until just past 3 in the morning, even just waiting till the top of the hour and half hour once Coast to Coast came on and yes, I was definately hearing that on whatever this station was I was getting.

Since it was getting late, I made a video capture when the station came in well enough to hear "something" but just at the threshold of being able to actually hear words but I should only put something on You Tube when I get a clear official ID.

Is it just me or can DXing sometimes be as frustrating as it can be exciting?

Frustration and DXing go hand in hand. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I've tried to get a station ID with the station fading out just before the moment of truth.

No truer words have ever been spoken....I've listened the better part of an hour to a strong signal & have slammed many a fist on the desk top as the signal died in the final minute or two before the ID.

 

[trusty]

Is it just me or can DXing sometimes be as frustrating as it can be exciting?

Frustration and DXing go hand in hand. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I've tried to get a station ID with the station fading out just before the moment of truth.

No truer words have ever been spoken....I've listened the better part of an hour to a strong signal & have slammed many a fist on the desk top as the signal died in the final minute or two before the ID.

Same here ... but I've only been able to slam two fists.
When that happens, I try to listen for a local commercial and then look up the city and the frequency, so I will know what calls to listen for when I finally hear the (slightly unclear) ID.

 

[bgrn198]

I have a Select-A-Tenna and it works really good for picking up far away stations


http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/mwant/4316.html

 

[ddsparxx]

I find the Select-a-Tenna pulls in far-away stations a bit better than the Terk Advantage when the loops are not connected to a radio that is using the AC power. When connected, there's more noise in the background.

 

[BRNout]

Frustration and DXing go hand in hand. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I've tried to get a station ID with the station fading out just before the moment of truth.

LOL!!!

This describes my experience near Chicago on 830 last night at around 9 pm! Was listening in WCCO's null to a fairly weak talk interloper on the same frequency - clearly carrying syndicated talk. Then national ads, then, at the magic moment - it faded out for the 10 seconds where I would have heard the ID!

Was it WCRN or WEEU or was it some other station? I'll never know because I didn't have time to hang out there......